Doing It Finale Q&A | Transcript
Find the episode shownotes here!
CW: discussion of paedophilia and child abuse
Hannah Witton
Hello everybody, and welcome back to the final ever episode of Doing It. This is not only the final episode of the year, the final episode of this season, but this is the last episode that there is ever going to be of this podcast. It is coming to an end at the end of this year. And for this very special episode I - me, Hannah Witton, your host - I'm joined by Mia Zur-Szpiro, my producer.
Mia Zur-Szpiro
Hello!
Hannah Witton
And Moog Florin, who is our behind the scenes wizard in all things, transcripts and social media and everything.
Moog Florin
Hi!
Hannah Witton
So Yeah, hello, welcome. Welcome! So the three of us are gonna sit and chat and answer some of your questions about the last season of the podcast, about the whole experience with the podcast, behind the scenes, juicy bits, and what's next, really, and we're going to take it in turns to ask all of these questions. But actually, I have a question for you both, for all of us, to kind of tie in the bonus stuff that we do on Patreon: so how was that for you?
Mia Zur-Szpiro
I mean, where do we start?
Moog Florin
It feels weird that it's ending because this is like what I was hired for specifically, like you needed someone for the podcast and social media, but you needed someone specifically - like, the most of my job was the podcast. So it feels really weird, that like - that it's just gonna be like, and now it's over. It's been good. It's been - it's been a real like - it's been weird in between seasons as well, because so much of the weekly podcast has been the basis of the job that I've like scheduled all of the other work around. And so it's going to be a bit like, "Well, what am I doing now? Where's my transcript? What day of the week is it?"
Hannah Witton
That's so true. "What day of the week is it?" Because Monday's transcript day and if there's no transcript -
Moog Florin
Yeah, what do we -
Hannah Witton
We'll figure that out?
Moog Florin
Yeah, it'll be fine. It'll just be very - like, in the in the pauses between seasons as well, I would always be like, "Oh, I've not done a transcript for this week!" And then I'd be like, "No, it's fine actually, it's not happening. You're okay." What about you, Mia?
Mia Zur-Szpiro
Well, I feel like we need to just clarify to listeners, because people might not know like how Hannah Witton as a platform is continuing. So this podcast is ending -
Moog Florin
True!
Mia Zur-Szpiro
- but you guys are continuing to work together on like, Hannah's other channels and continued work. Whereas like, I'm gonna be finishing working with you guys entirely.
Hannah Witton
Yeah!
Mia Zur-Szpiro
So sad! It's sad!
Hannah Witton
I know. And also, so the podcast began in 2019. And then Moog joined the team in 2020. And then, Mia, you came on board at the beginning of '22 because you've had -
Mia Zur-Szpiro
It'll be two years.
Hannah Witton
- two full years, basically. Yeah.
Mia Zur-Szpiro
Yeah I think in terms of how I feel, the podcast has probably been my favourite thing to have worked on together, I think it's been the most rewarding for me. Sorry, I just also should say I'm ill. So my voice is quite funny, everyone. But I feel like I have learnt a huge amount through working on this podcast, I think, especially with last season, having all these different, really diverse guests, I feel like I just learned about so many different people and types of identity and sexuality and like everything that I just feel like has completely elevated me as a human. Like I genuinely feel that way. So I feel - I think this ending, I'm mostly just feeling really proud of the work we've all done together. And like, you know, I think all endings have sadness and positivity within it. And I think like, I've gained also just so many skills through producing this podcast, and I'm going to be - podcasting is something I'm going to be continuing, which is great. So yeah, but mostly just really proud of what we've done here. Yeah, definitely.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, definitely. When I look back on, like, the amount of episodes that we've done together, but then also the podcast as a whole. I'm just like, "Oh my goodness, there's this huge bank here of so many interesting conversations about sex and relationships."
Moog Florin
Yeah, it's a huge body of work.
Hannah Witton
And you're right, there's definitely like sadness and positive stuff in endings. And we're gonna talk a little bit about that. There are some questions about it, because we asked for your questions that you had for us on Instagram. And there were some about that, but we're also going to chat just like about the making of the podcast in general, and especially this series. Cue Moog!
Moog Florin
I'm gonna kick us off with the first question. It's about this season. What inspired you to change the format of the podcast?
Hannah Witton
Yeah, well, it's no secret that I am closing the chapter on this podcast and on my sex and relationships youtube channel at the end of this year. And part of the reason to change out the format was - I hadn't made any decisions at the time that this was going to be the last season. But I was in that headspace of like something needs to change. I'm not feeling very inspired or very motivated. I'm like struggling with this idea - like we were getting to the point where it was just like, "Oh, we're going to start doing the podcast again soon. And we're going to start like booking in interviews and guests." And we were going to do it the same way that we had always had done. And I could feel myself dreading it, and like not being excited about that, because I felt like I'd done it. But the idea of doing it this way is really exciting to me. And so I kind of just ran with that. And I think we were like, we were really close to like gearing up to starting to booking guests. I think. I can't remember exactly when but I remember like, scheduling a meeting with you both and being like, "I have an idea."
Mia Zur-Szpiro
Yeah, I think I was like slightly thrown that first meeting because I think we were so like - like I already had like, oh, all the guests that we hadn't quite got last season. I was like excited to get them. And I think I was like - it was quite sudden. And I think it took me a bit of time to warm up to the change. And then it ended up being so rewarding. But yeah, I think I remember being quite thrown the first time you said it.
Hannah Witton
We were so close. Yeah, I think that was part of it, of like me getting panicky, because I could feel in my body we were getting so close to starting the next season in the same format. And I could feel in my body that I didn't want to do it. Yeah, at that point, I hadn't made any decisions about leaving the podcast or the YouTube channel. But I knew that in order to keep going, I needed to do it differently. And I'm so glad we did.
Moog Florin
It came out so good. It was less of a - because I come in much later in the process than you two. So for me, it was like, "Oh, cool, it'll be like a different thing to work on in like several months time." Whereas I think definitely for - I can see for you, Mia, it just being like, "Oh, this thing I was gonna start in like two weeks is looking completely different."
Mia Zur-Szpiro
We adapt.
Hannah Witton
So somebody asked: how did the production process work? Script first, or interviews first? Mia, do you want to take this one?
Mia Zur-Szpiro
Yeah, I think we could also kind of slightly combine it, maybe for the next one, which is also how did you choose the topics and guests for the episode. So basically, like, we chose topics - we chose five topics - one of them actually ended up changing. We originally had - actually, I don't know if this is answering too many questions. Anyway, we had five topics. And we basically brainstormed the topic and were like, what are the main takeaways we want? So we really started with the takeaways, like the actual impact of the episode. What questions do we want to answer with these episodes? And what do wewant people to take away? And then through that, we kind of thought who would be best to talk on this or be able to answer these or we'd be able to ask these questions to. And we basically just took down a bunch of names. Most of the names pretty much just like came from us, from people we already know, or sort of came to mind when we were talking about specific things. And then we went into interviews.
Mia Zur-Szpiro
So I wrote questions based on like, how to get those sorts of end goals? How like, what were the questions we wanted to answer? What are the questions that like Hannah wants to ask, you know? I think especially with like the parenting episode. And then also some specific questions just based on the individuals themselves through like research I've done and stuff. And then we did the interviews. So interviews came before script. So it's almost like we had like a rough, sort of rough - I'm not gonna say a structure, but like rough intentions and themes that we wanted to hit, then we did interviews. And then after interviews, we then did the script. So we basically took the rough transcripts, and then like pieced it together into scripts. So that was the order we did it in.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, because when we were going into the interviews, you're right, we had the themes, and we had questions that we knew we wanted answering. But then we knew that the structure and the actual flow of the episode would write itself slash it wouldn't write itself, Mia would write it - after the recordings, because you never know like, whilst, yes, we had these questions that a lot of the time were very, like, we want to get these like sound bites, and we want to hear this person explain this thing, because we know that we've heard them do it before and we just, you know, we want to get it for this episode kind of thing, even though, yeah, we're like trying to get certain things out of the guests just so we know that we've hit everything that we want to - you'd never know what's going to be said. You never know what stories they're going to tell. You never know how they're going to phrase a certain thing. Or they might just like come out with something that you like weren't expecting at all. And you're like, "Oh my goodness." Like.
Mia Zur-Szpiro
Yeah. Like, the way I phrased it almost sounds like all the questions we had were really leading questions. And it very much wasn't the case. Like, we very much also asked open questions, and sometimes quite broad ones to really allow people to bring their own perspectives and like individual opinions. And I think quite a few times we had guests answer a question in a way we were not expecting. And I think those were almost the most interesting moments and some of the most interesting material.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, definitely.
Moog Florin
So on that someone asked: how did you choose the topics and the guests for the episodes?
Hannah Witton
Yeah, the topics - I feel like, all of them came quite quickly. It was like, I want to do themed episodes. We had an initial meeting brainstorming ideas and things. And we very quickly settled on five themes. Only one of them ended up changing. But it was very clear that I wanted - well, actually no, because from the brainstorming, sex therapy came out of the brainstorming because you're training to be a sex therapist. So that's obviously something that's like very front of your mind, and something that you're very passionate about. And so that was like going to be a really interesting topic for us to explore kind of like the behind the scenes and the intricacies of sex therapy and stuff. And then disability is like a big one for me that I'm really passionate about. So it kind of feels like those two are there. Then porn was one that I really wanted to talk about. I think specifically because I had posted like a sponsored reel recently with an ethical porn company. And there was so much heated debate in the comments. And I kind of thought that I'd covered porn, really, in like a lot of the content I've done. I was like, "I feel like I've talked about this before." But then seeing the comments, I was like, "Oh, no, there is still a lot to say here. And there's still a lot that like needs to be said here." So that kind of like fueled the inspiration for that episode. And then parenting, because I was like, "I got a kid. Let's talk about sex positive parenting." But really specifically, I knew that I wanted to include conversations in that about gender affirming care and trans kids because that is a clusterfuck at the moment -
Mia Zur-Szpiro
So necessary.
Hannah Witton
Yeah. And so necessary. And then the fifth topic that we ended up swapping out was, we were going to do kink.
Moog Florin
Yes!
Hannah Witton
But I think in the same way that like, yeah, the misconceptions and stuff around porn, I was like, there's so many misconceptions around kink. But then as a non kinky person I couldn't - I was, yeah, we were all kind of struggling to tap into, like, what are actually the main takeaways? Like what is our driving force here with this episode?
Mia Zur-Szpiro
It's basically I think what happened is, what - a stage was that we had our sort of brainstorming chat. And then I went away and basically wrote up like a summary of all the sort of things we'd discussed and points and themes and guests. And I did that for all the episodes. And during that, when I was doing the kink one, I was like, "There's very little here, one, and, two, I feel like everything is what we've already said in videos or podcasts." It didn't feel like it was going to be like interesting or new. And I just - it wasn't sparking excitement.
And then we had this call with our editor. And we basically were like, "Here's all the topics." And we spoke for like an hour. We were like, "Yep, here are the topics we're gonna cover." And then I think it was in the last few minutes where it was like, "Okay, like, is there anything else to say?" And I just was like, I just came out with it. And I was like, "I just don't think kink is like interesting. I don't think -" Not I don't think kink is interesting but I think - it's very interesting! I just think the material and the the ideas we had for the episode just weren't matching the level of like intrigue and like new investigation and taboo-busting stuff that the other ones were. And I think in that conversation, I just clocked how there was this video we had been like delaying and delaying, delaying, and had always wanted to make, but it just felt too big and like, we just kept putting on the backburner. And that was basically exploring the whole theme of sex and capitalism. So we were like, "Hang on, why don't we make the fifth topic money?" And then we were so excited. And it was like, yes -
Hannah Witton
So excited!
Mia Zur-Szpiro
- this is it.
Hannah Witton
And it really felt like they all, I don't know, connected with each other. Like, we wanted to start with sex therapy because we wanted to start with like opening up this idea of like people thinking they're broken and and like, where do you go for help if you're having problems with like sex and relationships? Or perceived problems or whatever it might be? And then because we kind of like started with like, the inclusivity of sex therapy conversation in that that kind of like led us into talking about disability. The connections of disability and capitalism then led us on to talking about money. We then talked about sex work in that episode which then led us on to talking about porn. And then the porn conversation included about like young people accessing porn, which then led us into the parenting one. It just like each one -
Mia Zur-Szpiro
Perfect.
Hannah Witton
- it just like, it was so satisfying. Okay, somebody asked: what topics did you want to discuss, but felt that the world isn't ready to hear?
Mia Zur-Szpiro
Gosh.
Hannah Witton
I have an answer for this.
Mia Zur-Szpiro
Oh, do you?
Hannah Witton
I don't know if the world is ready for even my answer.
Moog Florin
Now I want to hear the answer.
Mia Zur-Szpiro
Oh my god.
Hannah Witton
Right.
Moog Florin
It's your last podcast. You can say it
Hannah Witton
Paedophilia.
Mia Zur-Szpiro
Mm.
Moog Florin
Mm.
Hannah Witton
Yeah. Yeah. See, there you go. So the reason why this is something that is interesting me to cover is because it is like horrendous, awful, it is like just the worst thing that so many people can comprehend. And one thing that I try to explain to people if it ever comes up in conversation, is that it's a Venn diagram of like paedophiles and child sexual molesters. We need to trigger warning the hell out of this. So not all paedophiles act on their desires. And not all people who abuse children are paedophiles. So it's kind of it's actually like defining what paedophilia is, which is a sexual attraction to minors. And there are a lot of people who experience a sexual attraction to minors who do not want to act upon it, who feel deep shame and disgust at themselves -
Mia Zur-Szpiro
Yeah, such shame.
Hannah Witton
- and are trying to seek help, but there aren't that many places where they can seek help where they won't just then automatically get arrested.
Mia Zur-Szpiro
Yeah.
Hannah Witton
Even if they haven't ever acted upon it. So yeah, I don't know if the world is ready to hear that one yet. But I think it's, yeah, it's an important conversation to have when people are ready to hear it. There is the information out there about it. But yeah.
Hannah Witton
Do you guys have any topics to cover? Maybe not that the world wasn't ready to hear, but just ones that we didn't get a chance to? Either in our themed episodes, or in terms of like the past seasons where it was like one on one interviews? Was there any any topics that you wish we'd covered?
Mia Zur-Szpiro
I have one slight thing, which is to do with the porn episode, because I think the porn episode goal, and what it achieved, was really like challenging the fearmongering that comes around porn. And I think that was super important. But I - since we've put it out, I've just sort of reflected on whether we lacked some other perspective and nuance, which is that like, people do struggle with porn use. And porn use can have negative impacts on people's lives. So we learn about it a lot, like, we take a sort of non pathologizing approach in our therapy school, and we call it more like compulsive behaviour rather than addiction. But there are things where like, depending on people's porn use, it could really impact how they're able to experience like sex with people in real life. And I feel like a lot of men I talk to have had some sort of journey with porn, of having to like switch up their use of it because it has impacted their ability to like perform or to experience like intimacy in person. And so I feel like we didn't cover any of that. And that's okay, because there's so much to porn and I think like the episode did something really important which was addressing a lot of the fearmongering there is but I think I just like after listening to it, it was quite like "there's nothing wrong with porn" vibe and I was like, it is complicated like it - there can be complicated relationships with porn. So that was just something that's like stuck with me a bit.
Hannah Witton
But do you know what, that's really interesting, because I've definitely been having those reflections.
Mia Zur-Szpiro
Oh really?
Hannah Witton
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. But I agree also, like, there's, you know, we set out - we were like, "These are the main takeaways that we want from this porn episode. This is kind of like our mission with this episode." And yeah, you're right. It was kind of like, I think the dominant narrative is like how terrible and bad it is. So we just like wanted to offer like a bit of an alternative. Like, if you want to find out about how problematic porn is, like, it's one of the information is there. Yeah. Ripe for the taking. Moog, as there anything that you wish we'd covered more?
Moog Florin
It was actually something that I think we talked about in our planning meeting for this season. And when I was working through the transcripts, I was like, "Well, this didn't come up." But I realised while you've been talking that it was because it was in the planning for the kink episode that didn't happen.
Mia Zur-Szpiro
Oh!
Moog Florin
But my favourite part of the planning that we did, we sort of had a mini kink podcast, just like in the planning episode. And it was Hannah, you read us from a book? It was like describing -
Hannah Witton
Oh my god, yes!
Moog Florin
Yeah. And I'm going to describe this badly, but it was like a book that Hannah will insert the name of when I've finished -
Hannah Witton
It was The Psychology of Sex by Dr Meg-John Barker.
Mia Zur-Szpiro
Oh yes.
Moog Florin
Yes. And Hannah read us out, like it was like describing various things that people were doing as though -
Mia Zur-Szpiro
Oh yes!
Moog Florin
- in like the really plainest sort of almost debasing terms and asking you how you felt about them. And then it would be something really innocuous like -
Mia Zur-Szpiro
Exercising.
Moog Florin
- innocuous in our day to day society, like using our phones or something but it was described as though it was -
Hannah Witton
It was like a roller coaster ride -
Mia Zur-Szpiro
Stiletto, wearing stilettos.
Hannah Witton
- yeah, wearing stilettos. But the way that they were described as like, you put your body through torture, or you like, do this thing that is terrifying but then you want to do it again, or like a stranger like touches your area, your genitals in a painful way but it makes you feel good. Like, it was like all of these things. And your brain kind of goes, "Oh my God, that's terrible."
Mia Zur-Szpiro
Yeah, like, "Oh, this is like fringe kinks, oh my god." And then it was just like wearing stilettos or exercising.
Hannah Witton
That's definitely something there. It's a good thought exercise to do, I would recommend that book. Because it does help to reframe a lot of kind of those like jumping to conclusions of like, judging kink, when we think about all the other kinds of like thrilling and exhilarating activities that humans do that just aren't sexual, or aren't perceived to be sexual.
Moog Florin
That's what I kept waiting to come up. In other episodes we were working on like, because they were finished when I got to them for transcripts, obviously, because I can't transcribe something that's not done. And so I was like, it's weird that that didn't come up, because I felt like that was something that we all really connected with in the planning, but then it's because we didn't do a kink episode. But now you all know. And you can go get the book yourselves!
Hannah Witton
Yeah, I forgot about that. That is a shame that that got missed out. But other people can go and experience it for themselves in the book,
Mia Zur-Szpiro
Moog, I also thought of the topic that we were trying to explore last season and that you were really, really keen for us to cover on the podcast, which was alternative routes to fertility and conceiving, especially from like -
Moog Florin
Oh yes!
Mia Zur-Szpiro
- the perspective of people who are AFAB. And I remember, there were like a few sort of lesbian couples who have documented that journey. And we like tried really, really hard to get them but just either response or scheduling. And then we didn't continue with that style of podcast episodes. But I remember that being a topic that like you really wanted us to cover and we really, really wanted to cover and tried to make happen, but never did.
Hannah Witton
I saw that couple at an event recently -
Moog Florin
I thought you might have!
Hannah Witton
- and we had this like moment of like, "Oh, we were never on your podcast!" And I was like, "Eh, don't worry about it." But yeah, no, that was something that we were trying to do for a while.
Moog Florin
Yeah, so I follow a lot of like, queer couples on Instagram. And one of them is Wegan, who is Megan and Whitney. And they had - they've been sort of fighting for the cost for - in England, the NHS won't accept - you have to get diagnosed as infertile before you can have any sort of fertility treatment on the NHS as far as I understand it.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, but having two uteruses is considered...
Moog Florin
Yeah, even if the reason that you can't conceive finger quotes "naturally" is because both of you are cis women, you still have to go through that process and there's costs involved and they were trying to get those costs taken away because it's a fertility tax just for being in a non like M/F cis relationship, and I think they did it. I think they - I think it's going to come into effect.
Hannah Witton
They did.
Moog Florin
They did! So I was just like, I think that would be really -
Hannah Witton
They won their case.
Moog Florin
- yeah, interesting, because while - a few of my friends had been trying to conceive at the same time as Hannah, and were in different relationship, like styles, genders, and it was just really interesting to compare both at the same time. Yeah, though, I had forgotten that that was something that I'd I tried to get us to work on, but it just never happened. Thank you for reminding me, Mia!
Mia Zur-Szpiro
I remember, yeah. I tried hard.
Hannah Witton
So somebody asked: which part of creating the podcasts are you going to miss the most? And which part are you going to miss the least?
Mia Zur-Szpiro
I have my answer for this.
Hannah Witton
Go on.
Mia Zur-Szpiro
The bit I'm gonna miss the least is scheduling and very specifically rescheduling.
Hannah Witton
I knew it was gonna be that! Yeah.
Mia Zur-Szpiro
Yeah. And I think the bit I'm personally gonna miss the most - I think with the other seasons was the question writing because that's when I just got to like really immerse myself in a person and a world and a theme, and just like philosophise on that and think of questions and stuff like that. I really loved that. But maybe this season, it was kind of the hardest but also the best, was basically scripting - was like creating the actual episode and putting it all together, because the satisfaction after it was done was amazing.
Hannah Witton
I will also say, one of the things I'm going to miss the least is having any kind of lag or technical difficulties with the guest whilst recording. Would always just be so painful.
Mia Zur-Szpiro
So painful.
Hannah Witton
And the thing I'm going to miss the most is just like having an excuse to have these conversations with all of these incredible people, like being in the interview was always favourite part.
Mia Zur-Szpiro
Yeah.
Moog Florin
Mine's the same for both parts of the question. In that it's doing the transcripts for both parts. I love transcription. I think it's really fun. It really plays to my strengths. I really enjoy it. What I don't enjoy is crosstalk. Which is when people on a podcast are talking over each other, which I think is a double edged sword because I think it gives podcasts like a really good, like casual conversational, you're just hanging out with these people, kind of vibe. But when you're trying to listen to one - like both lines separately so you can provide an accurate transcript, it is an unholy nightmare.
Mia Zur-Szpiro
Oh gosh.
Moog Florin
So yeah, I'm going to miss transcribing. And I'm not going to miss transcribing that specific part.
Hannah Witton
I can respect that.
Mia Zur-Szpiro
So what was everyone's favourite memory from the podcast?
Moog Florin
There's obviously been so many because we've been working on so much of this podcast, but one of my absolute favourites was when Hannah and I did the Agony Aunt miniseries a couple of summers ago, recording - because it was just such a special memory. It was boiling hot. I was in an incredibly hot flat. There was roadworks happening outside, so I had to have the window closed. And we recorded I think the five or six episodes, just one after the other. And you can hear us get looser as they go on. Having like little breaks in between where we'd be like, "Okay, stop recording blast to the fans." And then -
Hannah Witton
Oh my god, yeah.
Moog Florin
- record more. And those were really fun to record. I think they came out really nicely. But it was just a really special like, vaguely heat fogged memory.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, that was super fun. I think for me, as well as - I can't like pinpoint a specific thing of this last season. But overall, just like the creative challenge of this last season has been like one of the best things. But one thing that stands out for me is like in the early days of doing the podcast, pre-pandemic, when I was recording in person with people, and I would take my like remote podcast setup like around, and I remember doing four podcast recordings in one day, all at different locations. And honestly, I'm just so proud of myself for the scheduling of that of like, doing the recordings, getting to the next person, like timing it all, like figuring out like where I was going, what tube I was gonna get and like all of that kind of stuff and like smashing out for in one day. I don't think it's ever been done since. At least on Doing It.
Mia Zur-Szpiro
I don't think you should do that!
Hannah Witton
But that's like just a memory that I have just like I remember at the end of that day, just being like, !Oh my god, I did it."
Mia Zur-Szpiro
Yeah, that's impressive.
Hannah Witton
But actually one of those episodes - here's the thing, this is why you shouldn't do that. I think one of the episodes that I recorded that day, like there was some technical mishap and we ended up having to rerecord one of them. So that's why you shouldn't overstretch yourself.
Moog Florin
One out of four isn't bad though.
Hannah Witton
75% success rate.
Mia Zur-Szpiro
I'm not sure what my favourite memories are, I think like I definitely have some favourite episodes, and ones I was most proud of. I think my favourite thing was more that feeling where after we finished recording with a guest, and you just like, "That was sick, like that's going to be such a good episode." And just that feeling of like pride, relief, excitement, anticipation, like I love that feeling.
Hannah Witton
That was always such a good feeling. And I'm so glad that we did those like So... How Was That for You? episodes that we like started halfway through towards the end of season six and we did throughout this last season, because that you kind of get either our giddy excitement where we're like, "Oh my god, that was so good!" Or you get us just like, "Oh my god, the technical difficulties have broken my soul."
Mia Zur-Szpiro
Yeah, we didn't hold back on those.
Hannah Witton
We did not.
Mia Zur-Szpiro
Talking of favourite memories. I really like this question, which is what were our favourite memories from behind the scenes?
Hannah Witton
Oh. Ooh, god. Oh, I know. Moog, all of your mishears that the auto transcription would do. There was just some really funny ones.
Mia Zur-Szpiro
There were some really good ones. Oh wait, there was one, I remember. There was - I'm not sure if you saw this actually, Moog, because it was in Descript. But it was Jenny's transcript where instead of it saying that she had started to have penetrative sex again, it said she had started to have competitive sex again. Which is s good.
Moog Florin
I found some of the ones that we saved. My favourite - oh, there are some good ones. So my favourite, just because I think it means the same thing, is Otter had said - so Otter is the transcription software we use. We run it through, we get an automated transcript, I go in and make it an actual transcript of what we're saying. So this transcription software had said, "I'm British." And what the person had actually said was, "I'm pretty sure." Which I just enjoyed. Then a couple of more like sex related ones. The person had said, the actual person had said, "Suck on my nipple." And the transcription software had said, "Soccer mania."
Mia Zur-Szpiro
So good! I love that.
Moog Florin
And then I think the other excellent one is the person that was being interviewed had said "buttplug" and the transcription software had said "book club".
Mia Zur-Szpiro
Oh, that's so perfect. These are good.
Hannah Witton
Amazing.
Mia Zur-Szpiro
I think one of my favourite behind the scenes thing was when Anouszka, our editor - basically when we finished our first draft of an episode script, we'd send it over to her. And she'd write comments either like, this is good, or I think you need this. But every so often we could - because we could see pretty much all the comments as we started to go through it. And every so often there'd be a comment from her being like, "ha ha ha ha" or like, "this is amazing. I love this bit." And so me and Hannah started to guess what that bit was and I think I got 100% marks, didn't I? I always knew what -
Hannah Witton
Yeah.
Mia Zur-Szpiro
- because I knew the script so well, because I'd gone over them so much. But we had a fun time. That was fun. It was like a game within work. So I enjoyed that.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, that was fun. I did enjoy that. Okay, somebody asked favourite podcasts on the same topic. And which sex ed podcast would you recommend we follow? Do you guys have any recommendations to fill the Doing It hole in people's lives?
Moog Florin
Going to to just look at my podcast feed! If someone else answer while I do my research live on air.
Hannah Witton
I have two.
Mia Zur-Szpiro
You go.
Hannah Witton
So in terms of favourite podcasts on the same topic - I don't tend to listen to a whole bunch of sex and relationships, podcasts, except for the two that are like also limited runs and very much helped inspire this new format that we did, which is In Touch by Ruby rare and Bad Sex by Franki Cookney. So those two series kind of like - loved the topics, but also showed to me like what was possible with podcasting in terms of the format and yeah, I was like, "Ooh, okay, I could do this."
Mia Zur-Szpiro
Yeah, I remember you bringing that up. I have one podcast, it's actually also ended like - I think a bit like you, she was like, "You know, I've said everything I've had to say." But I think it's still just an incredible resource, which is Baggage Reclaim by Natalie Lue. I found that so useful for just like - she gives the realest talk ever. Just I think if you're dating or navigating relationships, I think, especially if you're single or in early stages, of just like really bringing home like how to figure that or navigate that. I found that like kind of life changing, that podcast. I really recommend that.
Hannah Witton
Ooh!
Mia Zur-Szpiro
Yeah, it's great. Like, there's a whole episode just on what compatibility actually means and like how to - yeah, it's so good, honestly.
Hannah Witton
Ooh, I'm gonna have to check that out.
Mia Zur-Szpiro
And like, what intimacy really means. And then like, how to actually process that and like analyse a situation or what you're in and, yeah, I think it cuts out a lot of like, potential for bullshit in dating, I really recommend it.
Moog Florin
Oh, I like that. Mine is more of a if you want a sex ed podcast social media feed, but I've always really liked what Come Curious do with their Instagram. I think their reels are great. I get a lot of like - whenever I'm stuck for whatever I need to be doing next, or I just can't pick up a bit from our episodes that I think it's going to be interesting, I', like, "Oh, what would Come Curious do?"
Hannah Witton
Nice.
Moog Florin
So I think they've got that - they've got a good vibe to, like, - they - it's it's like hanging out with friends. And I found out about them when we did a crossover episode with them. Yeah. So I would recommend going and checking out their social media and obviously their podcast as well. Yeah.
Hannah Witton
Yeah. Okay. We had quite a few people asking questions about like, various guests and things. And somebody asked the one that got away: is there someone you wanted/were planning to host but didn't get the chance? And immediately, Esther Perel comes to mind.
Mia Zur-Szpiro
Yeah. we tried so hard.
Hannah Witton
We tried!
Mia Zur-Szpiro
So we always had her in mind is like the Holy Grail of guests, but sort of thought she was unachievable. And then my cousin was in England and we had dinner and she told me that her housemate is one of Esther Perel's podcast producers, so I was like, ding ding ding ding ding! And I emailed her and she was like really enthusiastic, but basically it was like, she has no time. And then I think it was around the time when Esther Perel launched her game. So I went to Hannah, and I was like, "Ooh, we should get really tactical and be like, when you're launching in England, like, that would be a great way to promote the game to like our whole audience." So I tried to be like, really business modal-y about it. And they were like, "Ooh, that's good. But like, we don't know when we're launching it." And then she was like, "Check back in." And I just did that many times, I think, like, over the course of a year, and it just never happened. Which is a shame.
Hannah Witton
It just never happened and also, I don't think the game is available in the UK still.
Mia Zur-Szpiro
Maybe they're gonna come back to us and we'll be like, "Too late! The podcast is done. Too late."
Hannah Witton
I'll be like, "Just Esther just want to get coffee?"
Mia Zur-Szpiro
Yeah. Yeah, you can be like, "I'll put it on my Instagram!"
Hannah Witton
Oh my god. Dreamy. Did you have one, Moog?
Moog Florin
I do. Um, mine was - so I was the first Doing It podcast person to marathon Our Flag Means Death.
Mia Zur-Szpiro
You were.
Moog Florin
And then I forced everyone else to watch it, in a very loving way. And then was just like, we need to talk to Vico Ortiz, who I love. And as far as I know, Mia have really tried. We were in contact.
Mia Zur-Szpiro
I did!
Moog Florin
It just didn't work out because of scheduling. Like, we just couldn't make it work. But that's, that's for me, the one that got away because we were so close. And that's also a recording that I would have been like, "I'm not normally on recordings, but like, could I be on this recording... for... reasons?"
Mia Zur-Szpiro
Just lingering.
Hannah Witton
For reasons!
Moog Florin
"And the reasons are, I think they're like, really cool."
Mia Zur-Szpiro
They are. Yeah, no, I was sad. I also had one other person which was River Gallo, who is a -
Hannah Witton
Yeah! Oh, we got so close.
Mia Zur-Szpiro
We were actually - so they are a intersex person and film director. I hope I've said that, in the like way that they're happy with being described. But basically, a lot of their films explore this theme of being intersex and they also do a lot of like, anti forced surgery activism. And they just were amazing. And like, the theme of being intersex was something we've really wanted to explore a bit more and represent. And I think we were like, booked in twice with them. And then for various personal reasons, they had to cancel. And that did break my heart a little bit that we never made it happen. Yeah.
Hannah Witton
And that was also right at the end of season six.
Mia Zur-Szpiro
Yeah.
Hannah Witton
So we didn't have time - even if they were able to reschedule, we just didn't - we were like, "Oh, but the season's over now."
Mia Zur-Szpiro
"Done." Yeah.
Hannah Witton
So yeah, no, we were very close to getting that which is a shame because yeah, I don't I think we had really covered any themes around intersex on the podcast before.
Mia Zur-Szpiro
But we see you.
Hannah Witton
Yeah. We tried. Mia, you mentioned about, like, at the beginning, everything that you'd like learned from the podcasts and stuff. Can you remember anything specifically? Because somebody said: what have been the most educational or important topics to you guys personally?
Mia Zur-Szpiro
Yes, I have a very strong answer for this.
Hannah Witton
Ooh!
Mia Zur-Szpiro
But I think it's because it's been the episode where I've been most like, I want to share this, this is a really useful resource. And -
Hannah Witton
Oh wait, I think I might know.
Mia Zur-Szpiro
Oh my god!
Hannah Witton
The trans people in sports?
Mia Zur-Szpiro
Yes!
Hannah Witton
Yeah.
Mia Zur-Szpiro
Hannah and I just can read each other's minds at this point. So that was Dr. Veronica Ivy, who, yeah, is a academic, but also professional cyclists. And basically the person to talk to about the theme of trans people and sports. And her episode was incredible. She basically just, like, busted all these myths or assumptions around like testosterone and performance. And like, all these things, and it was so useful, it was so educational. And I just think like, is an incredible episode to be able to just like send to people or like, just challenge a lot of myths and conception. So I was very, very excited about that episode. Yeah, really learnt a lot from that one.
Hannah Witton
I've done that as well through conversations with people of like, "Oh, listen to this."
Mia Zur-Szpiro
Yeah, and people - when you're like, "Hey, there's actually no correlation between testosterone levels and performance levels." People are like, "Oh my god." So it's a fun one to have.
Moog Florin
Yeah, that's definitely like, we work in the sex ed space and like, I'm queer and not cis, and I didn't know that about testosterone. And every single time I think about it, it just like blows my mind.
Mia Zur-Szpiro
What about for you guys? Do you have any?
Moog Florin
I do, I do. On a similar topic, it was the episode we did with Ev'Yan Whitney, who was talking about their book Sensual Self and like connecting with your body - also how at the time, they had recently said that they they had, like, discovered that they were non binary, they'd been going through that sort of process. And I had been, personally, essentially just a great big gender question mark. Since actually another Doing It episode, I think it was with Andy Thornton. And I think they had said that there was a link between autism and just not seeing like the binary with sexuality and gender. And I remember thinking, "Huh, that's weird, because I'm autistic and like, yeah, I'm queer, but like, I've never - like my gender's my gender, of course I'm a woman."
Moog Florin
And then just sort of that niggling at me for a while, and then a couple of other things, like Hannah did a video about gender. And then there was a video from Connie Glynn that I watched, but it was specifically that Ev'Yan Whitney episode in Season five. And they were saying something about like, you don't have to have been like gender dysphoric and you don't want to have you don't need to have to change your body. You don't have to want to look androgynous. Like gender isn't about what you look like. It's about what you feel like. And I was just like, "Oh!" and something just clicked. And sort of from then I was like, "Oh, right. Yeah. Okay." And then I felt from then, like, it's been a couple of years now, and I think from then to now, it's just been a slow process of feeling more and more comfortable both saying to myself, and specifically saying to other people that I'm non binary. Yeah, it's that episode. It's the Ev'Yan Whitney episode. I think everyone should listen to it.
Mia Zur-Szpiro
That's so amazing to hear. That's so great.
Hannah Witton
I'm trying to think what mine is. And I don't know if I've got one. I think the Veronica Ivy episode: hard agree. That's also up there for me. I think, because it's a bit more fresh top of mind, just like the whole interview that we did with Cory Silverberg, who ended up in the disability and the parenting episodes of the last season that we did. I think, because I thought because of my job, I was kind of like - the, like, disability space and like in the parenting space, and it takes a lot to kind of, like, surprise me or give me new information that I genuinely like did not know because I'm in this space. So I'm like constantly learning and I'm like asking these professionals to kind of explain it to me, and then I'm like nodding along like, "Mmhmm,, yes, yes, yes. Good." But with Cory, I was like, "Oh. Oh!" Like genuinely the way they explained things, it was just a lot of like reframing, a lot of just different ways of thinking about things just like, I think they just added like just this extra layer of like nuance and sophistication to this foundation that I already had, and that was really exciting to me.
Moog Florin
I think a lot of their answers weren't what I was expecting them to be when like you said the question and then you sort of are predicting what the answer is because you're talking to someone in that space, like you were saying, but then they would say something that yeah, took me by surprise. And I'd be like, this is really cool.
Hannah Witton
Definitely. And I think part of my whole, like, decision to move on and stuff as well is that that lack of inspiration, that lack of motivation was coming from not really being challenged or surprised, like in those ways. And so it was really cool to like, feel that again. With that interview, especially,
Moog Florin
I have two much less personal, but I just really loved them and I recommend them to people a lot. And it's the one we did about intimacy coordination, as I find that fascinating, and that was just a really interesting, like, behind the scenes, how does that work on set type of interview. And then the other one that was just, I think, the most fun that I've had transcribing, or like working on an episode, was the one about what happens if you wank in space?
Hannah Witton
Oh my gosh, yes.
Moog Florin
That was just - it was, it was so many things about like sex and periods and space, and how that would all work for like astronauts or being in like anti gravity situations. And that was one of the most fun things that I've done on this podcast. And I definitely recommend that one.
Hannah Witton
It was so fun! And that was a listener who reached out and was like, "By the way, like, this is what my research is about. Do you want to chat?" And I was like, "Oh my god. Yes." And that is the episode with Lauren church. That was super fun. And just super wacky. I loved it.
Hannah Witton
Somebody has asked: and what's next for you, Mia? If she knows yet?
Mia Zur-Szpiro
Oh wow. That's such a good question. Hard to answer as ever, with what I do, in a short amount of time. I think after you told me that, you're finishing the sex ed stuff. And so our time together was going to end I just really spend some time reflecting on what I wanted to do. And also didn't want to fill it up straight away. And the year's ending with like, a lot of exciting things actually falling in place. So first off, I'm in my final year of my training to be a sex and relationship psychotherapist.
Hannah Witton
Whoo!
Moog Florin
Whoo!
Mia Zur-Szpiro
And I've started seeing clients, I've done one placement and from January, I'm doing a in person placement at Homerton, which I'm really excited about -
Hannah Witton
Oh, exciting!
Mia Zur-Szpiro
- yeah, it's meant to be like, this is a really, really highly regarded clinic and space. So that's cool. So yeah, so continuing my journey, becoming a therapist. And then I really love doing podcasting stuff. And I knew I wanted to continue that. And so I've had a few conversations with people. And it seems like I'm gonna have two podcasts that I'm producing from next year on. One is about - one is with a former GB gold medalist boxer, and she wants to explore this theme of how like movement can help people like navigate trauma that they've experienced in their life. So that's gonna be a really cool one. And the other one's gonna be more with like about music and DJs, which is sort of my background. So I'm actually really looking forward to coming back to like exploring other topics like sports, music, because my whole life did become sex and relationships this last year. And that's great but I'm up for some other stuff.
Mia Zur-Szpiro
And then I've also just been asked - this is so cute - so I've basically done a few workshops with teenagers, teaching them how to make podcasts. And then I've just been asked to work at a primary school like one afternoon a week to help them produce their own podcast, which is so cute!
Hannah Witton
Primary school children! Oh my god, tiny little microphones - no, they wouldn't have tiny microphones.
Mia Zur-Szpiro
Little podcast people! So I'm really excited about that.
Moog Florin
Oh my god!
Hannah Witton
Oh my god.
Mia Zur-Szpiro
Yeah. And then I miss doing like film and directing and stuff. And so I've basically bought back writing some scripts that I had been working on before I started to work with you that I'd really like to make some narrative. And then the last thing I've got coming through that I'm so excited about is I've been asked to produce and like co-direct a collaboration between a very well known female porn director that your audience know about, and also a very well known sex educator duo. A collaboration between them. So I'm very excited about that. And that's kind of what 2024, at least the beginning, is holding for me. And yeah.
Hannah Witton
I mean that is a lot.
Mia Zur-Szpiro
It's not bad, I know.
Hannah Witton
That's so much!
Hannah Witton
That is a lot of stuff.
Mia Zur-Szpiro
I know! Classic. But yeah, if anyone listening wants to collaborate on any podcasts or videos or anything, send me your ideas and I'd love to work with like other people. So yeah, feel free to hit me up.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, all the info will be in the description and shownotes!
Moog Florin
Absolutely!
Hannah Witton
Okay, somebody also asked: thank you ever come back to podcasting on another theme eg parenting and then the eyes emoji. And do you know what, never say never. Like podcasting is so fun and so easy and so hard at the same time. It's like one of these things where actually if you're doing like one on one interviews, and you're just sitting down with someone, and you're just recording the chat, and then there's barely any edits, and you're putting that out there. Like that's the easiest version of events. But then if you want to add transcripts, if you want to add video, if you want to add, like any kind of formatting or structure or editing, like it just astronomically increases the time and the cost. And there's really not a huge amount of cost benefit to doing a podcast unless you -
Mia Zur-Szpiro
You've got a big sponsor.
Hannah Witton
- unless you're huge. Yeah, unless you manage to get a sponsor, or you're like, you know, a huge celebrity, or you know, a lot of podcasts are funded through things like Patreon. So it's like one of these things where I'm like, I now know the undertaking of doing a podcast. So it would have to be like the right idea, the right time, the right place, like all of the stars would have to rely on.
Mia Zur-Szpiro
It would be great if it was like an established platform or like brand and were like, "We want to make this podcast and we want you to host it." So it's like -
Hannah Witton
Oh my god, dreamy.
Mia Zur-Szpiro
That would be the dream. So you don't have to, like hustle work or like financial backing.
Hannah Witton
Yeah. And they have a budget and they just pay me as the host that.
Mia Zur-Szpiro
Exactly.
Hannah Witton
That would be so good. You nailed it. So yeah, if anyone has any of that, hit me up, reach out.
Moog Florin
Speaking of podcasts, my wife and I are starting a podcast, hopefully next year.
Mia Zur-Szpiro
Oh my god!
Moog Florin
We've been talking about it for ages, and never actually, like done anything about it. So this is - this is the time, we're going to be watching The L Word together. I've seen all of The L Word but not the new generation. And my wife Lal has never seen any of The L Word. And I keep being like, "Oh my god, that's just like insert horrifying flashback from The L Word in the mid 2000s." And she's like, "This means nothing to me." And so we are going to put that experience out into the world for other people to either suffer along with me or be amazed anew with Lal. And there's not a lot on the internet for us - we don't have a lot of that platformed currently. But we have the Instagram saved at @thelwhypod. So the letter L and then "why". The L Why Podcast.
Hannah Witton
Oh, is that what you're calling it? I like that.
Moog Florin
Yep.
Mia Zur-Szpiro
I'm so excited for that. I just love the format of two people who know each other really well. Like, just like geeking out and like joking and like just discussing stuff. I think it's such a good format. I'll definitely listen to it. Oh, thank
Moog Florin
Oh, thank you. Well, it'll be us and obviously, the cats.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, oh my god.
Mia Zur-Szpiro
Your theme tune should just be like *meowing* meow, meow, meow, meow, meow. Like little like -
Moog Florin
God, it really should be. Just be like, "Hi, this is not a double entendre this is just we live with cats." To
Hannah Witton
To end this podcast, we're just going to toot our own horns
Moog Florin
Toot!
Hannah Witton
- reaaly, because as well as questions - toot toot! - you guys sent in some really lovely, just comments and praise. And I just wanted to shout them out. Shout you guys out. Shout you out, Mia, Moog as well.
Mia Zur-Szpiro
And you, Hannah.
Hannah Witton
Shout me out.
Moog Florin
And you!
Hannah Witton
Just to kind of like end on a - end on a high, if you will. "Not a question. Just thank you." Thank you.
Mia Zur-Szpiro
"No question. Just praise. This season has been impeccable. Every episode has been outstanding. Well done to you all. Clap emoji."
Moog Florin
"Just a note. Again, thank you so much for the transcripts."
Hannah Witton
Whoop whoop!
Moog Florin
"I wish more podcasts would do that. So useful." Thank you so much. That's me, I'm always really happy when someone finds them useful. Because I also need transcripts to listen to podcasts. And I'm happy that they helped. Yeah.
Mia Zur-Szpiro
Yeah, and it's like the product of your blood, sweat, and tears so it's like, you know.
Hannah Witton
"Not a question. But I want to say I'm forever grateful for the work you've done." Thank you so much!
Mia Zur-Szpiro
And one more. One last one. "No questions, just a big thanks for sharing your love and light in all you do." Aw, that's really sweet.
Hannah Witton
That's so sweet. Thank you so much. Yeah, I don't know how to close this out. Other than, yeah, just saying a massive thank you to both of you for joining me on this episode, but also for like, all of the incredible hard work that you've put into this podcast over the years and like making it what it is and what it has been, which I think is just an incredible bank of interviews and content like about sex and relationships with just so many incredible interesting people and topics and things. So thank you. And thank you all so much for listening.
Mia Zur-Szpiro
We were Doing It and now we've done it.
Moog Florin
Oh my god!
Mia Zur-Szpiro
It's done.
Hannah Witton
It's done. Doing It is done. Oh, wow. Well, that's - that's the end of that. Thank you!
Mia Zur-Szpiro
That the ending. Bye everyone, thank you so much. Lots of love!
Moog Florin
Bye!
Hannah Witton
Thanks so much for listening. Bye!
Hannah Witton
Yay, we did it. Okay.
Moog Florin
We did it!
Hannah Witton
I'm gonna stop these recordings.