Sexy Story Telling, Mormonism and Phone Sex with Cameryn Moore | Transcript
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Cameryn Moore
Kinky just means that you think they're weirder than you are, right. Like slutty just means they have they have more sex than you do. You know, it's like it's all very subjective, you know, and one person's kink, maybe another person's like, gentle, mellow Sunday brunch in bed.
Hannah Witton
Welcome to Doing It with me, Hannah Witton, where we talk all things sex, relationships, dating, and our bodies. Whoo, I cannot believe it is the 20th episode. How have we done 20 episodes already, this is wild. And I'm so excited to share this episode with you. It is with the incredible Cameryn Moore. Cameryn is aplaywright, a performer, sex activist, and educator, and a previous longtime phone sex operator.
Hannah Witton
In this episode, we talk about the surreal, serendipitous way in which we met on the streets of New Orleans, back in 2016. We talk about Smut Slam, Cameryn's sexy storytelling open mic night that she runs in various cities around the world, and how it works with those events in terms of having a code of conduct to create a safe space or a safer space as possible for sexy storytelling. We talk about how she was raised in the Mormon church, and how she then left the church, and one of her previous gigs being a phone sex operator, and how, in Cameryn's words, doing phone sex can get a bit thinky with the exploration of fantasies, and coming to terms with the real no limits of no taboo. Cameryn is amazing. As you can tell, I am a big fan of hers, and if you can make it to one of the Smut Slams around the world, I would highly, highly recommend. There will be links and info in the show notes, and I hope you enjoy this glorious, glorious episode.
Hannah Witton
Cameryn Moore, absolute pleasure to chat with you, hang out. I don't feel like we've maybe had like a one to one uninterrupted.
Cameryn Moore
Not at all.
Hannah Witton
In three years.
Cameryn Moore
Not at all. It's been like ships passing in the night. Absolutely.
Hannah Witton
Yeah. So you are someone who I just feel like has a wealth of experience, knowledge, information in that brain of yours. And we're gonna just like dig it all out and talk a bit about you. But before we talk about you, we have to talk about us.
Cameryn Moore
Yes.
Hannah Witton
How did we meet?
Cameryn Moore
Let us talk about the origin story of this particular moment in time. Are you saying it's three years ago that it was? I think it was longer than that?
Hannah Witton
I think it was 2016.
Cameryn Moore
Possibly, or 2015?
Hannah Witton
Either one of those.
Cameryn Moore
Yes. So why don't you tell me, because you were the one who happened upon me. I was set up in New Orleans.
Hannah Witton
Yes.
Cameryn Moore
Go.on to tell the folks what you saw.
Hannah Witton
I was visiting New Orleans. And there's just lots of people, out in the square and on the streets with their typewriters, with their little sign saying personalised poetry, personalised story. And I usually just like walk straight past them. And then there was a woman sat there, with her sign, that said personalised smut, and I was like, hello. I was like, what is this?
Cameryn Moore
Yes.
Hannah Witton
Um, and that was you
Cameryn Moore
Yes.
Hannah Witton
And we got talking. I paid you for some personalised smut, but from the - cuz how do you go about writing personalised smut for people first of all?
Cameryn Moore
I interview them. It's a very - it's a very intimate experience, even though it's quick because we have to be, we're on the street and nobody wants to hang out that long. So it's a two minute interview, where I have a kind of a set list of questions that I that I draw from, and then at the end of the interview, the person goes away, gets a drink or whatever, they come back in 15 or 20 minutes, and I have a half a page of a dirty story that I think they would like, based on that interview.
Hannah Witton
I still have mine.
Cameryn Moore
Amazing.
Hannah Witton
I still have mine. It's in the same box where I keep all my sex toys.
Cameryn Moore
Oh, okay. I thought you were gonna say like, where I keep my birth certificate, in case of fire, but okay. Yes, yes. Yeah, people cherish them, and I think rightly so because this is, I'm not trying to big up my own writing skills, but certainly, the experience of having someone really listened to your preferences and desires is rare in our world. And so they're getting my uninterrupted attention, and my, all the force of whatever writing skills I have to offer, they're getting that on their own stuff. And for some people that's incredibly profound.
Hannah Witton
And I think the other part of it that is profound, for someone like me, who adores personality tests, it's like doing a very quick personality quiz, and then it comes out with your specific personality type and you're just like oh my god, it me!
Cameryn Moore
It me! Big mood, yeah for sure.
Hannah Witton
Um but from that conversation that we had, I think I'm must have mentioned to you the work I do online and talked about the, I do like sex education stuff, and you heard my accent, and you were like I'm moving to the UK, and we were like, well we must know each other.
Cameryn Moore
Yes. Now we must meet.
Hannah Witton
Yes. So we swapped contact information, and then the rest is history.
Cameryn Moore
Yes, yes.
Hannah Witton
So what is it that like brought you to the UK, Europe, and tell us a bit more about Smut Slam.
Cameryn Moore
Okay, so what brought me to the UK, originally, bearing in mind that I don't live in the UK now, I had to move to Berlin because immigration is not nice.
Hannah Witton
Berlin is awesome.
Cameryn Moore
Yeah, Berlin is great. Berlin turned out to be exactly the right choice. But originally I was trying to get to the UK because my partner lived here, and I was doing my best to build up the network of Smut Slams to make that be a viable source of livelihood. It is a very viable livelihood but at the beginning it was all very like, I don't know, I guess we're doing London now, I guess we're doing Edinburgh now. So I think I first got back in touch with you saying, can you be a judge? Would you be willing to be a judge?
Hannah Witton
Yes.
Cameryn Moore
So Smut Slams are very inclusive, encouraging, storytelling evenings where audience members have a chance to tell their own stories, you could win prizes from our prize sponsors, and it's both incredibly vulnerable and hilarious at the same time and I don't know how that that manages to happen, but there it is. And we need, we always need what I call celebrity judges, people who are known in whatever their fields, and so that's why I contacted you to get it on the judges panel. Nobody's judging at the Smut Slam any more than they already do in their head, but but you know, you know, the judges get a chance to kind of assess the different stories according to different criteria, and that's it. It's not any kind of Smut Slam network where you're going on to be the slam champ of all Europe.
Hannah Witton
It's like a very casual, open mic night. And the times that I've been, because I think I've been to like three now I think, and the times that I've been where I wasn't a judge, I've always ended up telling a story.
Cameryn Moore
Yeah.
Hannah Witton
And there's something about being in that room, and hearing other people tell their stories, and realising, and you say this in your rules at the beginning, where it's not a competition of who is the kinkiest, or -
Cameryn Moore
Who is the funniest, yeah.
Hannah Witton
And it's not like that at all, and so you hear all these other really just human stories about sex, and about relationships, and and suddenly it starts sparking all of these things in your head of like oh, this is the thing that happened to me.
Cameryn Moore
Yeah
Hannah Witton
And it's because you have a word that's like the theme, as well, of the evening. Yeah, and every time I've just always been like so compelled to like get up and share.
Cameryn Moore
I think that's marvellous. I ask people when they when they get up to the microphone you know, have they been before, so they know anything what's going on, and they're like you know, this is my first time, and I'm like why did you decide to? And they say, I don't know, it just felt like I should.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, I brought some friends along once and one of them also got up as well and -
Cameryn Moore
First time?
Hannah Witton
Yeah, and told a story.
Cameryn Moore
Yeah,and I take that as a real compliment as the host and I know that my - the other people so I have other hosts that I work with in this network, and they experienced the same thing. It's a real compliment to the host, and to our code of conduct, that people feel safe enough to bring stuff even though they've never been. It always takes a little bit of time to warm up at the beginning, people need to see what we mean when we mean dirty stories, you know. It's not penthouse letters, it's not, you know, wham bam slutty, taboo sort of thing. It's it can be anything around sex, or kink, or sex that didn't happen, or kink that could have happened, it's not -
Hannah Witton
Intimacy.
Cameryn Moore
Yeah, intimacy, relationships. So that is a such a thrill for me, when audience members feel good about stepping up and feel compelled, and feel excited, and liberated afterwards. That's really wonderful to help facilitate that.
Hannah Witton
What's the history of Smut Slam? Like how did it start?
Cameryn Moore
Smut Slam started in Boston, in 2011. That was towards the end of my time there. As a sidebar ,so I'm a playwright and performer and one of the things that I like to do when I'm developing a new show, and it's got maybe a skill set that I don't feel that comfortable in, I will go out and find ways to - I don't have time for lessons. So I go out and do the thing. So the show that I was working on at the time, it was called Slut Revolution, about my kind of evolution as a slut basically. It was heavily storytelling based, and I didn't really feel that I had a lot of experience in any kind of formal way. So I would go out to these storytelling slams, these story slams in Boston, and I wanted to work on the stories that I was putting together as part of the show.
Hannah Witton
Wow, just throwing yourself in there.
Cameryn Moore
Yeah. And so I wanted, I thought, well, okay, open mic, and the show is kind of a loose chain of stories. So I want to take these stories out individually and practice them. And I would ask the host of these slams, is it okay if I bring a sex story? And the hosts were always very excited. They were like, yes, that's great, bring it, it's fine, we're grown up storytelling, it's fine. But then I would tell the stories, and the audiences at those slams -
Hannah Witton
Were not ready.
Cameryn Moore
Were not happy.
Hannah Witton
Oh.
Cameryn Moore
It's not even that they weren't ready, they were not happy. They were sitting back in the front row with their arms crossed, you know, the way people do when they're feeling very defensive and prickly about it.
Hannah Witton
Yeah.
Cameryn Moore
And I did not, like, I know, sometimes people think of me or other people kind of out there in the sex world is like, oh, you must really enjoy like being out on the edge or something. You know what I mean? Like, and it's like, actually, no, sometimes I don't want to be the furthest out in the room. I don't like this experience of going to these events and just just being pigeon holed as the pervert.
Hannah Witton
Right, yes.
Cameryn Moore
You know? So I, as with many projects that I've undertaken, I decided, well, I want this thing, I want the space where I'm not the only person telling sex stories, it doesn't exist. I guess I better make it happen.
Hannah Witton
I love it. And I just love people like you who are just like, wait, this is the thing that I want, and I don't see anyone else doing it. So I'm gonna make it happen. And now it's like, all over the world, in lots of different cities, it's a thing, it's a real thing.
Cameryn Moore
It's really a thing. And so like, maybe that's just a, I don't know, it's a it's a real personality trait of mine, that I go for these projects that, I'm not altruistic in the slightest. I'm glad that other people benefit, but originally, so many of my so many of my works are from my own selfish needs. So in this case, I wanted a space where I didn't feel so like out of it, you know? And so, yeah, so that's how that started, is I wanted a platform for my own work, and I figured I'm not the only one, you know, this is a big city -
Hannah Witton
And clearly not.
Cameryn Moore
Not the only one.
Hannah Witton
Definitely not the only one.
Cameryn Moore
Yeah, so that's the, that's the origin. And until 2015, or so I was mostly it was just me, Smut Slam was just wherever I was, and I had time before or after a festival, or I was travelling through and could find someone on the ground to help set it up. And then starting in 2015, I people were starting to ask me, can we have Smut Slam more than once a year? - because I would follow much the same route, you know - and can we do this? In one case, in DC, I had two people after a Smart Slam who were friends, they independently like approached me, like tag team, you know, from both sides converging like, we want to do Smut Slam, can we do Smut Slam? Can we make that happen? And so that's where suddenly branches started happening. Yeah, where I wasn't going to be able to travel to these places, especially when I, once I moved to the other side of the Atlantic, and I began fielding inquiries from people who had their own skill sets as far as performance, but it also really bought into the the vision, and the code of conduct, and all the things that makes Smut Slam really amazing.
Hannah Witton
Yeah. Because that is a really important part of it. Because you always like read out the code of conduct, and you make a point of like, the reason why these things are on here, it may seem ridiculous, but it's on here because someone tried it, and we were like, no.
Cameryn Moore
Behind every rule, you know that behind any sign in a public place, there's a story, you know.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, it says, do not do this, and you're like, ah, somone did that at some point.
Cameryn Moore
Somebody climbed that fence. Oops. Yeah, so the Code of Conduct is, it takes time, like it takes time to read it, but if I don't read it, I'll forget some point. And I don't want people to feel that they weren't fully informed. And I have had people say, it cracks me up because the first time I heard it was from a German and the stereotype, of course, is that Germans are way into rules, right? And so someone wrote on the fuck bucket form, they wrote on the form of the confession, right, like I love the Code of Conduct, thank you for reading the rules. They're so good.
Hannah Witton
Ah I love it
Cameryn Moore
And suddenly, like months and months of me going oh my God, this code of conduct is out of control.
Hannah Witton
Someone, it was someone's kink
Cameryn Moore
It was somebody's thing. And we try to keep it entertaining and moving fast. But like those rules, especially when it's an open mic format, I don't know many of the people who are telling stories -
Hannah Witton
You don't know what the story is gonna be.
Cameryn Moore
I don't know what the story is gonna be, and I have to create as structured as a structured space as I can, to make sure that not only do people understand what we're going for, but also what are the consequences if if they they place a foot wrong, or if they if they go the wrong way and not knowing, or not understanding, say consent, the way that I put it out in Smut Slam. So we lay down the rules, we talk about the consequences, we reaffirm that it's not punishing or scolding, but we are actually actively carving out a different kind of space to talk about sex.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, and that's one of the things that I love about the way that you you frame the Code of Conduct as well. I've never been at a Smut Slam where you've had to intervene. But I imagine that that happens sometimes.
Cameryn Moore
It happens
Hannah Witton
But the way that you've explained that you would, can you go into that a bit more, because it's not about being like, almost like the way that it can happen online. Like, oh, you said a bad thing, you're cancelled, like, get off the stage.
Cameryn Moore
Off the stage, get out of the room, you're fired, right. No, I, I call these educational moments. And the way that they happen is, you know, if someone's telling a story that goes against the code of conduct, and you know, you can read about that on my blog, I have some information about that with Smut Slam. But if your story goes against the code of conduct, I say, I will let you finish your story. I might make noises from the audience like, ugh , oh, oo, like, I might do that, especially if it's a couple times, it's been especially egregious where it's like, wow, you really are trying to push this -
Hannah Witton
Right, I see.
Cameryn Moore
But generally, I will let people finish the story. And then I will get up, and we will have an educational moment, where I take a 30 to 45 seconds to have a socratic conversation with you, where we discuss, like why this story didn't meet the code of conduct. And it's not about scolding or shaming, but about resetting the boundaries, about how we're trying to have a different conversation.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, and then everyone is on the same page
Cameryn Moore
Yeah. And what I realised too, about those educational moments, right, it's people think it's educational for whoever's telling a story. And that's true. But like, oftentimes, almost always with those stories where there's like, we need to have an educational moment, people in the room applauded, sometimes the whole room applauded.
Hannah Witton
Right, and so it's educational for everybody in the room.
Cameryn Moore
The whole room. For every person who tells a story, there's an audience of people, some of whom, many of whom might like, not see what's wrong with that. And so I, once I realised that it's like, oh, I cannot let these slide, I you know, I think -
Hannah Witton
Because if you let it slide, it reaffirms a lot of the negative stuff.
Cameryn Moore
Yeah. And it may be almost unconscious in most people's parts, but I'm trying to call that out, and so it's kind of a burden, actually. The educational moments are really - I don't enjoy doing them because as a host, strictly from an entertainment point of view, it distracts the flow.
Hannah Witton
You've got to be fun.
Cameryn Moore
Yeah. Keep it light, don't get into you know, like, blah, blah, blah. It's like no, man, this is, this is part of what we're doing here. And we have to make it an organic part of how we run the event. And, and so now it's just like, okay, as long as I've stated the code of conduct, made the consequences clear, everything's all on board, everyone signs, if you haven't left the room after that, you're on board for whatever happens.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
Cameryn Moore
Yeah.
Hannah Witton
So how did you get here, from being raised Mormon? Like, how, from a to b, how?
Cameryn Moore
Yeah. Well, I mean, Mormonism is -
Hannah Witton
An interesting beast.
Cameryn Moore
It's an interesting, I don't know how much you know about it. But it's -
Hannah Witton
I mean, I know stuff about it from Book of Mormon.
Cameryn Moore
Right the play, the musical.
Hannah Witton
And as a British person, who has been raised, kind of almost thinking that like, all Americans are a bit like that. Like, we kind of have this idea of like, crazy religious Americans. And we like to think that we are better than it. That's definitely like a British ego thing, that we are better than Americans.
Cameryn Moore
I think you're less pushy than Americans. I think the whole, I think the whole, like, proselytising approach that the Mormons are most known for, right. That's pretty common in a lot of US religions, actually. So that I think is, that's that's probably a national kind of almost a national trait, really. Yeah, so with the Mormon Church, it's commonly said like the Mormons and the Catholics fall the farthest from the tree. Like when you when you fall, you roll.
Hannah Witton
I've never had that.
Cameryn Moore
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Mormon, well, it's usually set in a much sleazier way about Mormon girls and Catholic girls. Yeah, but yeah, but also true. The ones who fall, we run. I just got to the age of like 12 or 13 when I was turning into a real stubborn girl, a real - I mean I was was, but I definitely was like then tall and big enough to like hold my own against say my father, who was very old country, like from the Netherlands, very stern, and I would physically was able to state I'm not going to church. Because any younger than that, you can kind of be picked up, and like taken into the car, and you're going to church. And I also started being interested in fooling around with boys.
Hannah Witton
Oh.
Cameryn Moore
And some girls. And wasn't - was finding the whole church education around that a little bothersome, I suppose.
Hannah Witton
You're just like these two things don't make sense.
Cameryn Moore
They don't make sense. I was starting to get angry about like, how chauvinist, how misogynistic the church was. I didn't have those words back then, but I, you know, you don't have to be very old of a child to like, look at who's doing all the talking, and who's laying down the rules, and what they tell. You know, that the boys were playing basketball, while the girls group was making dinner for the boys.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, and at some point you're gonna be like, feel unsettled by it.
Cameryn Moore
Yeah, that's not right. So I left the Mormon church, was the single best thing I ever did for myself.
Hannah Witton
Was that easy?
Cameryn Moore
No, no, because I was still living at home. So there were there were lots of fights, and it was a very, tempestuous, I think is the right word.
Hannah Witton
And how old were you when you left?
Cameryn Moore
When I left the church? 14
Hannah Witton
Okay, and so yes, still living at home.
Cameryn Moore
Yeah, still living at home. Four more years of just planting my feet in and digging in hard, you know, and then around 19, I came out as bisexual, and then I came out as lesbian, and then later I came out as queer. So it was like, that whole thing. But at a certain point, my parents just stopped understanding. And we've been pretty well estranged since 14, really, because if they don't want to hear about it, and they don't support it, like you cannot make people love you if they really hate that shit. You know, I mean, I'm sure they think they love me, and maybe they do love me, but like, that's conditional love. That is not interesting to me.
Hannah Witton
Yeah. And sometimes you kind of like hear the - it's a love that they think that they love you enough that they want you to like, be able to get into heaven. And so there was a certain like, thing that you need to be able to do to do that, because they care about your soul.
Cameryn Moore
My mum probably is still experiencing a lot of torment, believing that my behaviour means that not only am I not getting to heaven, but she was like the wrong mum, so it reflects badly on her. And then when my older brother told me he was praying for my eventual whatever not being queer anymore. I that just, oh, it was it was just such an inconceivable sort of approach to have toward anyone, I'm praying for your soul. I just resented that and like, you can save your energy. Like pray for your own damn like salvation, whatever you think you need, you judgmental prat. Like I just, you know, yeah, so so that's, that's how I broke free from the Mormon Church.
Cameryn Moore
The part about coming to Smut Slam, and performing, and that's just after like, a decade and a half, two decades maybe, of like really playing the field and finding, as I got into performance, at a very late age, I think a very, like late blooming, like, 39 year old, getting into performance and looking at my own experience. It's like, those are stories - those are important stories. And I found that I wanted to open that up, because people didn't really talk about that too much.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, cuz where did the transition between leaving the church and exploring all of this stuff for your own identity, and like your own purposes, and then turning it into like a public thing? Like, it's not just like, you know, your personal sexuality, going about your life, like living the way that you want. It's like, and I'm now I'm going to make this part of my brand.
Cameryn Moore
Yeah. Well, that relates more to, so as a performer, as a solo performer, I should say, that started with my first show, Phone Whore, which is based on my work as a phone sex operator. So I guess, I feel like that maybe is a major thing that should be mentioned at this point. When I was 39, was 2008/2009, there was the major global recession, right? And people lost their jobs all over the place. And I lost mine in a textbook marketing department.
Hannah Witton
Okay.
Cameryn Moore
Yeah. And was really grasping for some way to make a living, and phone sex is what, what I settled on.
Hannah Witton
It pays
Cameryn Moore
People - it doesn't pay that great, actualy, not if you're not independent. If you - if you're doing it full time, and it's your only thing. But it was never meant to be like a full time. Like, I just need to keep my head above water. And people have told me for a long time, you have a great voice for phone sex, you should totally do that. And I was always, you know, I'm a feminist, you know that, you know, I can't do that.
Hannah Witton
How did you end up like reconciling that?
Cameryn Moore
It's amazing what you'll do when you're desperate for grocery money. So that's how I reconcile that, I kind of set that aside.
Hannah Witton
Fair enough.
Cameryn Moore
I started doing that, like April 2009, and did it for almost almost eight years. So the first play that I wrote for myself to perform was based on, is based on that experience, Phone Whore. And writing about that, and then blogging about phone, like, I was blogging about my experiences of having these calls, but inevitably that's gonna bleed over to, how do I feel about this? And why do I feel this way about this? And I would have to relate that to my own experience of kink, and sex, and fantasies, and imaginations, and inevitably, this is, what originally started out being trying to be some kind of like fun exploration of phone sex, got pretty thinky, and personal at the same time. So I would just kind of go back and forth between you know, I'm exploring this theme, and why is this, and psychological strands of this and that, and then also talk about my own experiences, say with age play, or with with having that like feminist versus kink dichotomy, which is like not really a dichotomy.
Hannah Witton
With the phone sex stuff, like what are some of like, the standout moments of like things that you learned, or like any biases, or preconceived notions that you had before, that then kind of like, changed from doing that job? Or were always like, pretty open minded?
Cameryn Moore
I was pretty open minded to start, but there were definitely things that I had to come to terms with. Because my company was no taboo, which meant that we had take anything on came down the pike basically, we really didn't have room to say I, you know, I'm not talking about that. We just had to take everything. So I would say like, really wrapping my mind around how people can fantasise one thing, and live another thing. And that it's not like living in the closet, necessarily, it's not living in the shadows. It's, it's just fantasy is fantasy. Yeah, it's contained. And most people are quite socialised to be able to contain pretty wild stuff, you know. And as long as those fantasies are there, or you share them with consenting adults, and you play around with them in that way, those are fine. So I think that my current stance of whatever you fantasise about is totally fine. No holds barred. That stance evolves from working in phone sex, because I just talked with enough people, and I've had enough people in my own life who tell me their their kinks, or their fantasies, and, and I know them personally, as well, and I was like, you are not terrible, even though your fantasies are illegal in 48 states.
Hannah Witton
But that's why I always think that that's why it's a fantasy, and it's not reality. But I do also understand that it can be like, quite difficult for individuals to also try and like, reconcile that they're having these thoughts, and are aroused by certain thoughts, but being like, why?
Cameryn Moore
What does it say about me? Yeah, it's a very common question that comes up at Smut Slams in our fuckbucket, you know, the anonymous fuckbucket. It's like what, you know, what does this say about me? Or can I be a good feminist if I have like ravishment and rape fantasies? You know, all that sort of thing. And I, yeah, I, it just, it does not have to it just, it's just your brain. It's just our brains way of entertaining itself. And that's really fine.
Hannah Witton
One of the things, I think it was Emily Nagoski in her book, Come As You Are, saying that your biggest sex organ is your brain.
Cameryn Moore
Mm hmm.
Hannah Witton
And I was like, oh my God. Yes. Yeah.
Cameryn Moore
Yeah.
Hannah Witton
Mind blown. Sex organ blown.
Cameryn Moore
Yeah, I would 100% say that that understanding is one of the bigger kind of shifts for me as a result of doing phone work. And really, not just understanding of it, putting into practice every day, talking to people whose fantasies either really weren't my thing, or really, like weird and weird, I put that in air quotes, really, outside of my experience, and I had to learn by faking it till I make it, you know. Act like that is the hottest thing I've ever heard. And then eventually that kind of seeps in and it's like, no, actually, that fantasy is fine. This is not, like I might have been reacting weird in my own head, but, but just acting like it was normal in my conversation with them, in terms of like, we're having this fantasy play right now.
Hannah Witton
It's a shame because like, there is still such a taboo around sex and sex and like, and fantasies, that you are having all of these fantasies and thoughts, completely isolated.
Cameryn Moore
Yes.
Hannah Witton
And the only person that you might share it with is someone on the end of the phone sex line, or -
Cameryn Moore
Or a partner who you really trust
Hannah Witton
Yeah. But other than that, like, unless somebody out there is voicing these things, you're going to be like, oh my god, I'm a pervert. Like, it's only me.
Cameryn Moore
Yeah.
Hannah Witton
And I like what you said as well about not not being weird, but like outside of your experience, because I think we have this notion of like, as soon as someone maybe admits to a fantasy, or like sexual desire for something that isn't, like doesn't fit in this like, conventional box that we've been taught like what you're supposed to get turned on by, then it's like, ooh, freak, pervert, like, and actually it's like, no, it's just like, that's just not for you.
Cameryn Moore
Yeah, it's not for you. And it's pretty common too. Like that, I don't know who made the joke originally, but like kinky just means that you think they're weirder than you are. Slutty just means they have they have more sex than you do. You know, it's like it's all very subjective.
Hannah Witton
Yeah
Cameryn Moore
And one person's kink may be another person's like gentle mellow Sunday brunch in bed. You know like it's not - it's not, it's very subjective.
Hannah Witton
Well, thank you so much. This has been enlightening.
Cameryn Moore
Yeah.
Hannah Witton
Do you want to give Slut Slam a bit of a plug, because you've got a couple of dates in the UK coming up?
Cameryn Moore
Yes. We - I'll just mention for the sake of the global audience
Hannah Witton
Oh yeah
Cameryn Moore
Like Smut Slam has branches, or like regular occurring events, or upcoming one offs in like 15 or 16 places, around the world.
Hannah Witton
Damn!
Cameryn Moore
Yeah, including three in Germany, we've got Copenhagen, we've got Helsinki coming up, we're going to Vienna. So if, you know, like Europe is a small enough place that people know like people in the English speaking parts of Europe. So let people know about that. You can look it up on at camerynmoore.com/smut-slam. So there's that. And specific to the UK, we have two events coming up at the beginning, the first half of October; on the eighth is a Slam in Cardiff, which is a booming fucking Slam. Cardiff loves this shit. Yeah, yeah, that's what most people in the UK say.
Hannah Witton
Oooo Cardiff, the Welsh, saucy.
Cameryn Moore
And then we're doing a Slam in London as well, at the Dogstar in Brixton. So that's on the ninth of October. So it's just back to back Slam action. Please come along, and tell your friends.
Hannah Witton
Yes, do, it is seriously an absolute ride. It is a great evening. Thank you so much.
Cameryn Moore
You are welcome. Thank you.
Hannah Witton
Thank you so much for listening to Doing It. If you enjoyed it, I would really appreciate it if you left a rating and a review. You can find show notes at DoingItPodcast.co.uk, and do go follow us on social media and I'll catch you in the next episode. Bye.
Hannah Witton
This was a global original podcast