Can We Recover a Great Sex Life Post-Pandemic? | Transcript
Find the episode shownotes here!
Hannah Witton
Hello, and welcome to Doing It, the sex curious show where we ask questions and nerd out and explore the weird and wonderful world of sexuality and relationships. I'm your host Hannah Witton, resident sex nerd and a sex ed enthusiast. We are currently working on some very exciting changes for Season Five of doing it. But we didn't want to leave you hanging. So here's what's going to happen. We asked you to email us questions for things you need advice with, and myself and my assistant Megan, who you may remember from a previous episode, are going to attempt to answer them. Quick disclaimer though: we are not doctors or therapists. The advice we give is purely what we imagine we would say to a friend if they came to us with these questions. It's that kind of vibe of agony aunting. Either we're down at the pub having a chat, or at a sleepover, a dinner party, or having a really long phone call and getting deep. Each week in the lead up to season five launching we'll be answering one question with new episodes every Wednesday as usual. If you want to share your thoughts, insights and advice on the dilemmas, then please do join in the conversation over on social media. We are @doingitpodcast on Instagram and Twitter. Links to everything we talked about in the shownotes on our website, as usual. And I hope you enjoy this series of agony and style minisodes.
Hannah Witton
Right, what lovely question do you have today?
Megan Moore
So today, we have a bit of a longer one to really get stuck in.
Hannah Witton
Oh yeah, let's go.
Megan Moore
So generally, this is about recovering a sex life after the pandemic.
Hannah Witton
Is the pandemic really over?
Megan Moore
No, no, it's not. No, it really isn't.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, let's just -
Megan Moore
Let's be very clear on that one.
Hannah Witton
Let's just establish that. Yeah. But I get what you mean.
Megan Moore
So the question is: from Kim: I'm a cis bi woman in a relationship with a cis bi man. I've been with my partner for two years. We're both kinky and inherently sexual people, which is one of the many things we bonded over. Then 2020 hit, we had to move in with my brother since my partner lost his job and I was diagnosed with a chronic illness. He was depressed and my illness means that the pressure in my brain is too high, causing headaches, stroke-like symptoms sometimes, and chronic fatigue. Our sex life just disappeared. Between living in a tiny flat with family and everything else going on, neither of us was surprised, and we talked about it regularly so we stayed on the same page. We've recently moved into our own house and are both working full time, a situation we're both so happy to be in. We are so happy to finally have our own space and get back to our sexual selves. Life is good, but the sex hasn't come back. I don't feel sexual at all. I've put weight on and as an eating disorder survivor, I'm struggling to accept my new brackets sick body. He's working, which is fantastic, but it's long and unsociable hours. We've tried to organise date nights and time to be intimate with sex off the table - no pressure - and we're both so knackered it doesn't happen. I'm happy to push through, but he won't. And I don't know what else to try. I certainly don't want to push him into anything but whenever we talk, he says he's okay, just tired. I'm stuck in a cycle. No sex makes me feel shit. Feeling like shit makes me want sex less. How can we recover a great sex life post pandemic? I'm sure it's an issue we're not alone in.
Hannah Witton
Definitely not alone in.
Megan Moore
Definitely not alone.
Hannah Witton
But all of that just sounds like - I'm not surprised it impacted your sex life and your desire and your relationship. Like, I think there is like a level of like acceptance that I don't know if you're already there yet. But like, yeah, of course this was gonna happen. Like, this makes perfect sense.
Megan Moore
Like, I think, I think that she's saying that earlier, where, during the midst of what was - the, like, more difficult times that are currently happening, they were like, Well, obviously, this makes perfect sense. Of course, of course, neither of us want to have sex.
Hannah Witton
And I think that still is true for the current situation.
Megan Moore
Yeah, absolutely.
Hannah Witton
Like even though you're really happy and you're living together and you have your own space, and you've got your jobs, there's still a lot of what Kim was saying in that bit where I'm like, yeah, it still makes sense that the desire - there's like just struggling to find that desire and find time for sex and intimacy and things. I think it was like Emily Nagoski probably - I am trying to get her on the podcast for the next season.
Megan Moore
Oh my god. Fingers crossed!
Hannah Witton
But I've like seen her speak a couple of times. And I think it was her. Just saying that desire and sex, and all of these things like in our lives will ebb and flow. And you will find yourself in times in your life where you aren't feeling desire, where you and your partner like aren't really engaging in sex. And often the pain comes from thinking that that is a problem.
Megan Moore
Yes.
Hannah Witton
Not the actual not experiencing desire, not experiencing sex. I think that I'm currently going through a very low desire time. And there was definitely like a fighting against that. of like, why, like, what's going on here? What's wrong with me? And like, and how do I change this? And I'm trying to get to a place of like, this is just, it's just a natural lull. And who knows when, but I'm sure that it will, like, come back again. And that's fine.
Megan Moore
Yeah, I've definitely been in the same situation where it's just been like, I don't want that at all. No sex, thank you. And then -
Hannah Witton
And then if your life is going perfectly -
Megan Moore
Exactly!
Hannah Witton
- and your health is perfect, and you've got no obvious reasons why you would be experiencing low desire or not finding the time for sex with your partner, like, even in those situations, you will experience lulls.
Megan Moore
Yeah, it's - and also, like, Kim is saying that, you know, things are better now, life is good. There are two things. One, just because you've left a more difficult time doesn't mean that the time you're now in doesn't still have difficulties. It's just better comparatively. Like, so you can't be like, all of these problems are solved. Why aren't I feeling different? Because -
Hannah Witton
There's also like the recovery and the process time of what previously happened.
Megan Moore
Part two! Yeah, like, just because something has stopped happening doesn't mean like you've processed it, or you're ready to deal with it. Or - you're still - trauma lingers, like, Yeah, you - and I mean, it would be really nice if you could just be like, okay, I'm ready to be over this. But there is no, there is no off switch. Like and also sometimes your body is still processing stuff, if you're - even without your brain noticing.
Hannah Witton
I've not read it yet, but a book that just always comes up on this topic is The Body Keeps The Score.
Megan Moore
That's what I was going to say.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, it's one that just keeps coming up. And I'm like, okay, fine. I need to read this.
Megan Moore
Yes, you read it, and then you can tell us all about it.
Hannah Witton
Yeah. I think I'm just gonna keep sharing things that I'm pretty sure Emily Negoski hassaid, because I think so much of what she writes about in Come As You Are is kind of like so what might help here. And then also, I've not read it, but I've like heard her speak in terms of like summaries of it - her second book with her sister called Burnout, which is about unlocking the stress cycle, which might seem like it's got nothing to do with sex. But in fact, it's also got a lot to do with sex.
Megan Moore
Yeah, definitely.
Hannah Witton
Because one of the things that Emily talks about income as you are, is that stress basically just like hits the sexual brakes. For most people. For some people actually, like makes them super horny.
Megan Moore
Is this like how you get that amazing trope in like fiction or in movies where it's like, you know, the spies have just escaped certain death. And then they're like, right, let's bang! and you're like, okay, cool.
Hannah Witton
Maybe? Yeah, they're like the 10% of people where stress hits the accelerator.
Megan Moore
Yeah, like, okay, Tom Cruise, you've jumped off that building. Let's go for it.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, I think that's also just like a Hollywood thing.
Megan Moore
I mean, it's a good Hollywood thing.
Hannah Witton
There is something about like a near death experience, maybe just like you have a near death experience and then you want to like live. And often people feel like having sex is like the ultimate act of like, living and freedom.
Megan Moore
This is so off-topic! Yes
Hannah Witton
Anyway. But a lot of the stuff that she talks about in terms of desire and stress, and this like stress cycle, is you have to complete the stress cycle. And it can be through like, it can be through tiny things. So obviously, like trauma is like a big stress, but also just like just being able to shake off just the mundane stresses of a working day. And rather than getting stuck - so she kind of like, it's like this process. So you don't want to get stuck in the stress. Because then your body thinks that it's not over. And so having some way - and it potentially is about creating like a ritual that helps you come out of the stress. So like it could be - it's like creating transitional moments so like on the mundane stressful working day, whatever, like getting home and like physically shaking it off.
Megan Moore
Yeah. Coming home and changing clothes.
Hannah Witton
Getting home and changing clothes. Exactly. Like maybe there's a certain scent that you associate with like, now it is chill time. Now it is - now I am transitioning from like this stressful thing and now I'm transitioning into getting out of that. So like, whatever it is that you need to do to, like, relieve that stress from your body, to like work through it rather than staying in it can help with things like desire. And then another thing that Emily Nagoski recommends in her book at one point is like, actually, rather than just being like, let's have an intimate evening, and no pressure or whatever, but actually there being pressure, but for no sex. So like -
Hannah Witton
- you actually take sex off the table, like, like you completely ban it. You're like, we are not allowed to have sex. And like, that could be an interesting experiment to be like for a whole month, we are not allowed to have sex, even - like, it doesn't matter that you're already not. But it's like actively being like, we are not allowed to have sex for a whole month, or whatever it is.
Megan Moore
Yes!
Megan Moore
Yeah. Just take it - yeah, just being like, this is not a thing that we can do. Because instantly your brain is like, well, what if we want it?
Hannah Witton
Maybe? Yeah.
Megan Moore
And then even if that doesn't happen, it takes the pressure off you for that length of time, because you know it's not happening. You don't have to be worried about it. I mean, you don't have to be worried about it anyway. But if you need to like create a space for yourself in which you can say there's - I can feel completely - if I need an external reason not to be worried about this, because I'm not there ready for myself yet, give yourself that reason. Be like we're not having sex for a month. This is our challenge.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, it could be longer. It could be whatever time that you want to like give yourselves. And then even if, if you do that, and even if after that time, when you're like allowed to have sex again and you're still not, like, try it again? Or like, I don't know. But I think kind of like what you said about like creating that space, I'm just - oh my god, I'm such an Emily Nagoski fangirl. But it's creating contexts is like what she talks about a lot in terms of the sex that you want to be having. So like, what - in what contexts do you feel desire? In what context do you feel sexual arousal? In what contexts do you enjoy sex?
Megan Moore
Yes.
Hannah Witton
And then being like, okay, what can we create? What can we co-create together?
Megan Moore
Yeah, what space can we create?
Hannah Witton
That is a cotext that we both can let kind of like arousal and desire like thrive in. Because working full time and like having different schedules and also like being - like being in recovery for things, like hang ups about your weight and stuff, like, all of these things aren't creating a sexy context.
Megan Moore
No, they're creating a non sexy con - like actively creating the opposite for you.
Hannah Witton
Yeah. Yeah, it's like, it's a, it's a mixture of things. It's a mixture of like, accept that our sex lives like do actually change over time, and our desire levels change and ebb and flow. But then also, like, there are things that you can do, and a lot of it is to do with finding ways to move through stress and then also creating sexy contexts.
Megan Moore
Yes. And on a separate note, I wanted to say, I never heard the phrase eating disorder survivor before. I've only heard it like, I'm in recovery. I'm - as a person in recovery from an eating disorder, that really meant a lot. So thank you!
Hannah Witton
Oh, I love that!
Megan Moore
And also about the - I, so, I completely get, like, your body is different than it was. And because you are - because your health is different, or because you're in recovery, or a combination of the two - completely understand when you're just having that, like, body crisis. And obviously, there's no magic switch. But this is just, this is a tip that I think if someone told me I wouldn't have believed. So here is that tip for you. For someone that wouldn't have believed it. Look in the mirror and say nice things to yourself. 100% was like that is - this is useless, and it will not help me. And then I did it every day. Like made myself do it every day. And it really does help. And it's one of those things where it's like -
Hannah Witton
Yeah. It seems so corny
Megan Moore
It does and you feel - like say it even when you don't believe it. Like you won't believe it, at first. You will feel stupid saying it. I couldn't say anything to myself, I had to just think it. Just say it anyway. And just make it part of your habit. Like, even when it feels stupid, even when it feels like it's not helping. Just do it. Just keep going, just keep going. And -
Hannah Witton
Do you say the same thing every day? Or do you -
Megan Moore
I do.
Hannah Witton
Yeah.
Megan Moore
And then I add in things - when I got more comfortable with it in general, I started adding in things that I'd been - that come up for me like, recently. So like, if you need ones to start with, you go with, I am beautiful. I am special. I love my body. Say those three things to yourself and then you'll like look at yourself and say them, and then go away. And then just keep saying it every day. And eventually - so my therapist made me start doing this. And I was like, this is the most stupid therapy homework I've ever been given. This feels like TV therapy. This is ridiculous. And then I did it for - it took a while, it took a few months. But eventually I was like, oh, it's working. And I'm so happy that it's working because I feel so much better. But also it feels like someone said drink water and cure your chronic illness. And I drank water and it cured me. But also, the problem is - not the problem. I guess it doesn't matter that it feels too simple. Because it's simple and it works.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, that's how I feel about having like a gratitude practice now. Because I used to always shun it, like, ugh, this is some woowhoo shit, like -
Megan Moore
Right? And you do it and you're like, oh.
Hannah Witton
There's like, like, I've actually been really level headed and like, just generally like, I think a bit happier and have less down days for the last six months. What's changed?
Megan Moore
Why could that be? Yeah, as someone who is self professed kind of woowoo even for me looking in the mirror and saying nice things to yourself. I was like, well, I don't - why would I do that? Because I clearly - that only helps other people who like - who are special and beautiful. And it won't to help me b ecause I am not and nothing I'm going to do is going to change that. Then I was like, oh, it turns out that was a barrier that my brain created. And I was creating a new pathway. And eventually, my brain was like, oh! This pathway! Also sometimes do a little dance in the mirror that sometimes -
Hannah Witton
Yeah! I approve.
Megan Moore
I added those - I would do the dance on days where I felt especially crappy, I'd be like, I'd say the things and then I do the dance and then I'd be like we're getting out of here. And also, I think it's, it's common, it's really common, if your body changes, and you already have, like trauma, or you're working through stuff around your body like a health condition, or you're in recovering from an eating disorder, to feel disconnected from your body sexually. Like, again, personally, I had basically no problem having sex when I was like in the midst of the eating disorder. But through recovery, it's been much more difficult at certain times because my body - even though the way I feel about my body is the same regardless of what weight I'm at - that, like it's not - spoiler, it's not about weight, it's about control. So even though the way I feel about my body just generally is exactly the same, regardless of what it actually looked like, it didn't - turns out, it didn't make any difference, because that's not what it's about. Using my body sexually at a higher weight has been harder. Because there's that little part of you that goes like this is different, like your body is different. So it's not worthy. And like, that's not a real part of your brain. That's not like your brain. That's the eating disorder, telling you that. To try and make you sick again, but it feels very real. And like I don't have a tip for overcoming it apart from like, sometimes you won't feel like having sex because you don't feel like you want to remind yourself that you have a body and that's fine.
Hannah Witton
If there's ways to maybe find some like visual representation of bigger bodies like having sex or like being sexual as well because like there's lots of porn that you can find where people have like all different body sizes, but obviously like in Hollywood movies, TV, the people that we see who deserve love, deserve sex, is always just it's always thin, able bodied.
Megan Moore
It's always the thin able bodied people. Um, just in general in sort of body positivity accounts: bodyposipanda on Instagram, I find really helpful.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, she's now just Megan Jayne Crabbe.
Megan Moore
She's now just Megan Jayne Crabbe, I didn't notice that.
Hannah Witton
Yeah. Evolved.
Megan Moore
She's evolved. The next Pokemon.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, exactly.
Megan Moore
Um, and Monica Kim, I think she's Monica Kim dot JPG on Instagram. Really - she's not necessarily like a body focused account. But she talks a lot about like, plus size fashion. And just - I don't know, she really helped me, just by looking a way that you don't see a lot of - you're not - you're told that like, plus size people can't look. Even though obviously anyone can look any way they want.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, I have a question for you. So I wanted to kind of go back to the stress thing? Because it made me realise that most of the things that I do to move through the stress cycle are related to physical activity. So like, basically doing some exercise, like I know guarantee helps me move through the stress cycle. Like, I feel like shit, like I'm having a really stressful day. But I know that if I go for a run, do some dancing or like, go play tennis, then afterwards, I'll feel great. Like and that - to me, it's like it's really helpful. But you're someone who has chronic fatigue. So I was wondering, like, do you have any tips and things that you might do to help relieve stress - because this person also says they have chronic fatigue - that don't involve like exerting loads of energy?
Megan Moore
Yes. So I feel like that's a double edged sword for people with chronic fatigue and who are in recovery from an eating disorder because I used exercise as part of the eating disorder. So it doesn't relieve stress, because - I'm like, it definitely will. And then I do it and I'm like, I need to do this every single day or I'm - etc. So that's that trap. And then for chronic fatigue, sometimes you're like, I just really want to go for a walk, but you can't, like you physically can't. So my - this is something that I have been struggling with myself. So my tips that I found worked for me: journaling, sit down, write down everything in your brain, onto the page, just blurt it all out of there.
Hannah Witton
Word vomit.
Megan Moore
Yeah, just get it out of you. Because it will help. Even if it feels like it doesn't, because it's just, it's not just sitting inside you. It's sitting outside of you. And sometimes writing it down, you can be like, oh, I think there might be something I can do about this. Or maybe like, you know, if you're flicking through your journal later, you're like, oh, I've spotted a common theme. Maybe I should like look at this. Also, I can't journal unless we make it look pretty because otherwise I'm engaging with my feelings too much. Whereas if I'm like, oh, I get to put like stickers and pretty pictures in there -
Hannah Witton
It's kind of cathartic as well!
Megan Moore
Yeah, I'm like, this is - this is an art project, and I'm not doing therapy. So I would say journaling has really helped me. Having an activity - sort of again breaking the stress cycle - having something that you can do - when - that marks like this makes me feel good about myself. Like if I'm feeling really bad, I will put on something - like change your clothes. Into - like it can be changed into pyjamas - like you're wearing pyjamas and you put on different pyjamas.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, if you enjoy doing your hair and makeup, that could also be a thing.
Megan Moore
Yeah, like I change out of my night pyjamas into my day pyjamas.
Hannah Witton
Oh my god, I love that.
Megan Moore
And then I put on lipstick. And I'm like, I am a goddess and can take over the world because my mouth is purple now.
Hannah Witton
Mmhmm.
Megan Moore
And also go outside. Like, don't go for a walk or do exercise if you can't do it. And like it can literally be open a window and sit next to the window. Like, go sit on the front step for like, two minutes, go back inside. Because then that sort of the change of scenery, and you're getting the like new air, I guess. Like I struggle with that one because as soon as I go outside, I'm like, I have to make this count. I have to like exercise and my wife is like, I've come with you. You're allowed one minute, and I'm taking you back inside. And I'm like, No, I feel fine. We can go for longer. Do not be me. Have an imaginary wife or husband or a real one, but the imaginary one works just as wel, being like, you have to go inside now and you're like fine. And then you go inside and you're like -
Hannah Witton
I'm just picturing Lal walking you like a dog, just like, right, come on in now.
Megan Moore
I mean, it's not far off. I'm like, no, it's fine. No, it's fine. I want to go to the park. And she's like, no park. And then I come back in and I'm like, you were right. I couldn't have done any more. This was fine. But yeah, so my tips are journalling, change something about your appearance like change your clothes, tie your hair up, put some lipstick on, if that makes you feel good. Do that. Put earrings on. And get some air even if that's just sitting next to a window. Or like change where you're sitting. If you're - if you've been in bed for a long time. Go on the couch. If you've bewn on the couch for ages: go on the other end of the couch. Which again, sounds really simple. But that one has really helped me when literally all I could do is go from bed to couch and I'm just stuck in this, like my body can't do anything and my mind is a whirlpool.
Hannah Witton
Yeah.
Megan Moore
It's like - it's like a chronic fatigue version of that Cosmo tip that I always used to see in like my teens when you read Cosmo, and it's like, do you want to spice up your sex life? Try doing it the other way around on the bed!
Hannah Witton
Oh my god.
Megan Moore
It's like that. But for chronic fatigue, sit on the other side of the sofa. And you're like, yeah, I've moved.
Hannah Witton
I've moved. I'm in a new position.
Megan Moore
This is completely different.
Hannah Witton
Yeah.
Megan Moore
And, like, obviously, none of these things are a magic switch. But they help.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, one thing that I've just remembered: a friend of mine who is a physiotherapist, one exercise that she showed me, that is kind of just like a super basic kind of like relieving stress from the body is like a tense and release. And you do it through your entire body. So basically, like you, you start with your face, tense up, scrunch up your face, like for, I don't know how long we did it for maybe like, I don't know, five seconds, whatever feels comfortable. And then release. And then like scrunch up your shoulders, tense, tense, tense, release, like your arms, like make everything like super tense, your arms and your hands are tense, tense, tense, release. And then like your legs, your legs and feet, tense, tense, tense, release, and then do your entire body, tense, tense, tense, everything, and then release. And do that. And like you might not feel relaxed, like immediately afterwards, and just like go through again, or if there's any particular areas that you feel need a bit of extra work, but we just, we did it over zoom. And she just took us through it. And it was like five minutes. And I was like, oh my god, I feel so chill right now. Like I have transitioned into a chill state of being.
Megan Moore
That's so good. I will try that. Also, my close personal friend Adriene from Yoga with Adriene - she's not my close personal friend. I'd like to think that she is in my heart - she has a bunch of videos of yoga at different like intensity levels. My go to is - she has a video on yoga for text neck, which is like when you've just been looking at a screen the whole time or like you've your neck in a specific position. And the first 10 minutes of it you can do without moving, you can do it just sitting on the couch, just sort of moving your neck - which I don't know if that would be bad for like you say the pressure in your head is part of your chronic illness.
Megan Moore
Oh, yeah, check with your doctor.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, check with your doctor.
Hannah Witton
Check with your physiotherapist. Don't do what I just said without their permission.
Megan Moore
Don't take my word as medical advice. But if you are okay to do not necessarily that one - but there are yoga things that like yoga stretches you can do sitting down, not moving. And I incorporate those when I can.
Hannah Witton
Yeah. I love how this question about recovering a great sex life has just turned into advice that is on the surface seems like it's not about sex at all. But like, if we think about our sexual health and wellbeing as being part of our overall health and wellbeing, it is super connected.
Megan Moore
Yeah. It's so connected. And it's it's easy to think that your sex life is completely like, you know, you step into the bedroom and you're like, okay, I've left everything else outside of my brain and I'm just like, randy and ready to go. But no, you - wherever - there's that -you know, wherever you go, there you are.
Hannah Witton
But there are ways of creating rituals, so that you are able to like, as best as you possibly can kind of make that decision and leave all of that other stuff and be like, I'm gonna worry about this in an hour.
Megan Moore
Yeah, like coming home from work and changing your clothes. Like, oh, I'm gonna have sex. I'm gonna change my clothes.
Hannah Witton
Yeah. Or have a shower, like whatever it is that you want to do to transition. But yeah, I hope this helps.
Megan Moore
I hope - I hope this helps and wasn't just adjacent help.
Hannah Witton
Just rambling. Maybe listen, listen to this with your with your partner. And hopefully it sparks some conversation and some ideas.
Megan Moore
Yes, yes. And obviously the old standby. Constant advice. Communicate. Which it sounds like you're doing but congrats. Just keep doing it. You're doing great.
Hannah Witton
You're doing great, honey.
Megan Moore
Yeah.
Hannah Witton
Thank you so much for listening. If you like the podcast, please don't forget to leave a rating and a review. It really helps us out and make sure to follow us on social media @doingitpodcast to join in the conversation and keep up to date on everything happening with the podcast. Until next time!