Building Sexual Confidence and Sexual Communication with Dr Tara Suwinyattichaiporn
Find the episode shownotes here!
Hannah Witton
Hi everyone. Welcome back to Doing It, the sex and relationships podcast where sex has never been so nerdy, with me, your host Hannah Witton. This week I am joined by the wonderful Dr. Tara. Dr. Tara is an award winning researcher, podcast host, sexual communication expert, and a tenured professor at California State University. She teaches and researches into why sexual confidence and sexual communication are extremely important in relationships, where they come from, and how people can improve them. Dr. Tara is also a sex and relationship coach, where she focuses on coaching clients in effective sexual communication. And she's the host of Luvbites, a podcast that focuses on sexual wellness and sexual exploration. Her work also focuses on sexual mindfulness, and she gave a TEDx talk on becoming sexually powerful.
I wanted to get Dr. Tara on the podcast to share all her insight from her own academic research into sexual satisfaction, confidence, and sexual communication and share some tips for us all. We chatted all about her research and how effective sexual communication is the number one most important indicator of sexual satisfaction. Tara talked about the importance of developing your own communication and making time for talking about sex with your sexual partners. We spoke about what the differences between macro and micro sexual communication and why you need to practice them both. Tara offered some helpful suggestions on how you can check in with lovers after sex and how to create more openness of sharing on the experience and moving away from performance pressure questions. We spoke all about sexual confidence and Tara even turned the questions on me - ah! - and asked me what I think being sexually confident is and my own experiences of developing it.
Tara spoke about how self esteem is the main part of being sexually confident and gave some really interesting insight into ways you can develop your own self esteem. Tara and I also chatted about what sexual mindfulness is and the importance of being sexually present to improve sexual satisfaction. And we also spoke about her Thai identity and misconceptions around Thai sexuality. Tara talked about her own journey from growing up in Thailand to where she is now in her own sexuality and how much work it took. I really enjoyed this chat because Tara got me thinking so much about what sexual confidence really means, and made me want to go away and practice more sexual mindfulness meditations.
As usual, you can find more info and links to everything that we talked about in this episode in the shownotes over at doingitpodcast.co.uk and please let us know what you think over on our Instagram, which is @doingitpodcast. If you like this episode, please give us a rating and review over on iTunes and Spotify. It is really appreciated. And without further ado, here is my chat with Dr. Tara.
Welcome, Dr. Tara, to the podcast. How are you doing?
Dr Tara Suwinyattichaiporn
I am doing excellent. I had an orgasmic morning. So I'm thankful.
Hannah Witton
Wow! I don't think I've ever had anyone respond to that question by telling me about a sexual experience of theirs but I am grateful for it.
Dr Tara Suwinyattichaiporn
How are you?
Hannah Witton
I'm good. Do I share something? I didn't have an orgasmic experience this morning. But I might have had one in the night. I don't know. Sometimes I masturbate myself back to sleep after breastfeeding, like baby's now gone down and I need to get myself back to sleep as soon as possible. And an orgasm always helps along the way.
Dr Tara Suwinyattichaiporn
I love that. I mean. Big fan of masturbation.
Hannah Witton
We can start a fan club for it. Okay, I want to get stuck into all of the brilliant work that you do. But to kind of give us a sense of that, do want to tell us a little bit about your research into sexual communication?
Dr Tara Suwinyattichaiporn
Yes, I'd love to. Thank you for having me and for me to share more about sexual communication with your community. So as a professor of sexual communication, my focus is very much trying to understand the different variables that go into long term sexual satisfaction. And in my journey of researching for both - like researching for my textbook that just came out and researching for that large 5000 participant study I found that communicating about sex - aka like talk about sex with your partner - is the biggest contributor to long term sexual satisfaction in your relationship. So I guess that would be the number one finding that - you know, a lot of us talk about, like, 'sexual communication is key. It's so important.' But like -
Hannah Witton
Yeah, I was gonna say, I swear like in all of the videos I make, I'm like, "Communicate." But I really hope that we can like get into the nitty gritty of like, what that is.
Dr Tara Suwinyattichaiporn
Let's do that, yeah, I would love to do that. Because I don't want to be one of the people that just preach like sexual communication is important. But here are the things you should be talking about. Here's how you can start. Here are also other non-verbal things that you should be doing and non-verbals are very much communication. It's 80% of communication.
Hannah Witton
Yeah. Yeah. So I guess like, yeah, what did you find in your study? Because he said that, like, communication is one of or the biggest factor with relationship satisfaction. And so is it kind of any kind of talking about sex? Or is it - or you know, there are different styles of communication? Like what, what is going on? Like, how are these satisfied couples talking about sex? Like, what's their secret?
Dr Tara Suwinyattichaiporn
Love it. I love that question. It boils down to two aspects, the micro communication and the macro communication. The micro communication is that like day to day, it's the sexual initiation, it's the aftercare. It's the dirty talk. It's the sexting. The little things you do in a day to -oh, gosh, I hate the word 'spice up your sex life'. Really, it's to maintain, let's say, it's to maintain passion.
Hannah Witton
Right, okay, yeah.
Dr Tara Suwinyattichaiporn
Passion is not daily life tasks that people normally do. So you really have to assert yourself in a way that is unique, in a small way, every day to maintain passion. And these are the things that I, you know, had just said, and we can totally go into one or two of those topics that you are interested in. But the macro communication in which a lot of people call it like relationship checking. I call it a sexy check in because it doesn't have to be like serious, like, let's sit down and have this conversation. Buying a house. It doesn't have to be like that. It can just be over a glass of wine. It can be over a date night. "Dress sexy, let's go out. Let's chat. How are we doing? How are we doing sexually, babe?"
Dr Tara Suwinyattichaiporn
Are the macro conversations happening in a non sexual context. So are they happening when you're not having sex, basically?
Dr Tara Suwinyattichaiporn
Exactly. Exactly. It's is talking about sex when you're not having sex. So let me ask you this, like, how would you feel about asking your partner like, "Hey, babe, for the last month how would you rate your level of sexual satisfaction from one to 10?"
Hannah Witton
Ooh, yeah.
Dr Tara Suwinyattichaiporn
Yeah. Right?
Hannah Witton
Yeah. I feel like that's probably a question that like not many people even ask themselves, let alone their partner.
Dr Tara Suwinyattichaiporn
You're so right. They're not asking themselves therefore - you know, and I want to go back to the fact that you said, like, "Oh, not a lot of people even ask themselves." That's very observant and true. Because whenever I work with a client, and I, and they come over and they, you know, show up and they're like, "I want to have a better sex life. My wife or my husband, my partner, is not doing their part." I'm like, "Well, what do you want? What is an ideal sex life?" The first answer I usually get is, "I don't know." I mean, that's problematic, right? You're asking for things that you don't even know.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, I've definitely asked that question to my partner. I've kind of said in an ideal world, like, how often and what kind of sex do you want to be having
Dr Tara Suwinyattichaiporn
Love it!
Hannah Witton
Yeah.
Dr Tara Suwinyattichaiporn
So what kind of answer did you get?
Hannah Witton
Probably, like, honestly, like, less sex than I think I was expecting. So that kind of like the pressure off of it. "Actually, I'd be super satisfied with, you know, with this."
Dr Tara Suwinyattichaiporn
Three times a week. Two times a week. Yeah.
Hannah Witton
Oh, less than that. At the moment. Jesus.
Dr Tara Suwinyattichaiporn
Well, research found that the happiest long term couples have reported that they want high quality sexual session with their partner once a week.
Hannah Witton
Okay, that's what they want. Who knows what they're getting.
Dr Tara Suwinyattichaiporn
That's what they desire.
Hannah Witton
Yeah.
Dr Tara Suwinyattichaiporn
And, you know, there's always ebbs and flow like, context, right, like, whatever that's happening to your life at the time. You have a young child, like, that's very different than when your child is 10 and play with them - you know, play on their own with their friends and you guys are back like, you know, having more alone time together again. So different.
Hannah Witton
So different. So one of the things that you mentioned In the like micro communication was aftercare. And I think that's something that a lot of people miss out. Also we kind of think of the term aftercare is only really being about, like if you've done a BDSM scene or something. But what kind of things should people be asking after they've had sex?
Dr Tara Suwinyattichaiporn
Love that question. And honestly, aftercare is now for everyone, like we should all do aftercare and we should all spend quiet alone time with each other after sex before we go about our day or get on our phones or start watching TV. Aftercare - we should make a point to do aftercare, you know, at least 10 minutes because people are so quick to go back to what they were doing, get on the phone, watching TV, right after sex and not really taking in the fact that your oxytocin was just peaking and releasing and you're having all these hormones that really you should be capitalising. So yes, aftercare is for everyone, and it's to maximise that good feeling after sex. So what question should you be asking? The very first thing that you shouldn't do is, "Did you come?" I mean I know this isn't directed towards men, but you know, women in a heterosexual relationship can also teach their male partners like, you know, saying "Did you come?" has quite negative connotation that the only thing that matters for our sex session is that I came and you feel accomplished. Because it's not about that. I'm here with you. I want to just connect with you, and have pleasure in many different ways. And did you come is a big don't. A do is "How was it?"
Hannah Witton
Yeah. "What was your favourite part? What was your least favourite part?"
Dr Tara Suwinyattichaiporn
Yeah. Yeah. How was it? For I would say, first ask how was it? And you know, this will really gauge like, people who have been talking about sex will be like, "Oh, I love it when you did so and so, like, love it when you like went down on me in the middle of penetration. Like, you know, I came and you just like, licked my pussy." And you know, but even if you weren't comfortable going into details, and you were like, "I think it was great. I think it was more connecting than the other time when we were in a rush." Like, even that is informative.
Hannah Witton
Kind of like, how it made you feel, not just like, what sensations you enjoyed.
Dr Tara Suwinyattichaiporn
Exactly. Like in general. How was it?
Hannah Witton
Once again, you have like, the micro and the macro of how was it?
Dr Tara Suwinyattichaiporn
Yeah, exactly. And you can always go about - anything that's like informative, but I think we should also talk about how do people get to the point where they actually disclose these things, right? Because most people don't disclose these things. From research, we know that most people tend to omit how they actually feel or lie. A lot of people say they came when they didn't,
Hannah Witton
Yeah. So how do you overcome that?
Dr Tara Suwinyattichaiporn
Sexual confidence?
Hannah Witton
Alright, let's get into that then. How - how - yeah.
Dr Tara Suwinyattichaiporn
Talking about sex for a long time. I mean, I want to ask you first, like, in your understanding, you know, how does one become more sexually confident?
Hannah Witton
From my experience? It's trial and error. Like I think the thing that's made me sexually confident is the kind of the fake it till you make it strategy of like putting myself out there, sometimes it working, sometimes feeling horribly rejected, but even in the times where I felt rejected, like it being okay afterwards and being like, okay, I survived that. And then that actually giving you the confidence to like try it again.
Dr Tara Suwinyattichaiporn
Yes, yes. And that, in a way, is what everyone is kind of doing in life, right? Like for everything, not just sex. It's like, let me try a little bit of this. Even in cooking, like let me - let me try this out and see what happens. And maybe oh, next time, I'll add more salt. Next time, right? But as you do more of something, you start to perfect it. Now, when it comes to sexual confidence in my research of the 5000 participants, I've found that the very key of sexual confidence is your self esteem.
Hannah Witton
Right, okay.
Dr Tara Suwinyattichaiporn
Sexual confidence is what you project or express. It's external. How you feel about yourself is internal and very much related to how you're able to project yourself confidently. So if we dig deeper into self esteem - now what do you think are some things, Hannah, like that you do to maintain or increase or enhance your self esteem?
Hannah Witton
This is so funny. I feel like the interviewer-interviewee relationship has been switched, but I'm fine with it. I feel like I'm in a therapy session.
Dr Tara Suwinyattichaiporn
I love asking questions!
Hannah Witton
So like, what - so my self esteem or like what helps build it for me? Hmm. I do actually consider myself quite lucky in that I feel like I've always had good self esteem, although actually no, I do remember having quite low self esteem as a teenager? So I'm like, how did we get from there to here? I think there's something that -
Dr Tara Suwinyattichaiporn
Can I say an observation?
Hannah Witton
Oh, yeah, go for it.
Dr Tara Suwinyattichaiporn
Because I have observed you -
Hannah Witton
Ah!
Dr Tara Suwinyattichaiporn
- and studied your profile and the way you interact and your, you know, the, contemporary history? I think you learned to have very high self esteem from authenticity.
Hannah Witton
That's a nice compliment, thank you.
Dr Tara Suwinyattichaiporn
Yeah, but you became very authentic. I don't know you prior to what is shown on social media, but you became very authentic, and you share yourself authentically in all spaces, and in all like aspects of life, right? We're, like, talking about sexual interaction, or like dating, or marriage, or having a baby and the difficulty of having a baby and being a mom. So I feel like you living authentically and speaking authentically, every day it feeds into you feeling good about yourself, and that's really self esteem.
Hannah Witton
Hmm, that makes a lot of sense. Because I, I would say that like those teenage years - definitely a lot more influenced by a lot of the messaging of how I should be acting, what I should be thinking and feeling about myself, about my body, about relationships, and dating and sex and everything. And then like, as I got older, and actually started having more experiences and realising like, what was actually, like you said, like authentic to me, rather than kind of like, what box I think I should be fitting into. But that makes a lot of sense, because and that would be why I think so many people do struggle with self esteem, because these messages that we receive about how we should be are so pervasive. Yeah.
Dr Tara Suwinyattichaiporn
Yeah. So it's very much - I mean, I have a very similar experience where, you know, in my teenage years, and I mean, even early 20s, up to even recently, I very much, like continuously questioned how I should act, how I should behave. And I'm not authentically myself. And when I go into spaces, I almost like have to put on a show. Right? Like, I have to, like, fake it a lot of times, and there is like two different running theories, if you want to talk about that. It's like the Amy Cuddy version, like fake it till you make it. And then there's the other theory, which is like, you know, how do you feel authentically inside? And we can - that is like, an endless debate. To me, it doesn't matter, as long as you feel good about yourself, like whatever method you want to go through, as long as you feel good about yourself. And that's your self esteem, how you feel truly about yourself? Do you feel like you bring value? Do you feel like you have capabilities? You do feel like you are a smart person? However definition of smart is. Do you feel like you make the right decisions in life? Or even if you make the wrong decisions, do you feel like you bounce back? Like, all of these things combined make you and your self esteem. So if you view yourself positively, you are able to project yourself positively and that's a huge part of sexual confidence.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, okay. So we want to become great sexual communicators. In order to do that we need sexual confidence. And in order to have sexual confidence, we need good self esteem. So how do we develop this self esteem? Like, if someone's got low self esteem, what's kind of some advice that you would give them?
Dr Tara Suwinyattichaiporn
You would be such a good TA, like, great summaries.
Hannah Witton
I feel like in another life that I didn't start making videos about sex on the internet. I am a teacher. So.
Dr Tara Suwinyattichaiporn
Yeah! You sound like a teacher. You did a good summary like synthesis. So, yes, building self esteem is achieving little things consistently.
Hannah Witton
Okay, yeah, yeah.
Dr Tara Suwinyattichaiporn
There's like - I feel like self esteem literature, like when you look at body of research, it's so complex. Like there's so many theories and methods and this and that. To me, let me boil it down for you, everyone that's listening and even for myself, too. This is how I apply it - is making sure that you are achieving little things consistently. And that's how you feel good energy within yourself and that self esteem. "I feel good. I make things happen." That's my self esteem. Right? And it doesn't have to be something crazy. This is why I'm, uh, I'm not a fan of big, like big daily goals because I think it gives people - modern people - pressure that we didn't need. We're going against the current like, we're not salmon, you know, we're not salmon, we're human. We go with the flow? And I think people are forcing their way through and not achieving and have lower and lower lower self esteem. For example, instead of like, "Oh, I'm gonna - I'm gonna squirt tomorrow."
Hannah Witton
Right, yeah, that's on my to do list. That's my goal.
Dr Tara Suwinyattichaiporn
Is it? Is it on your to do list? "I'm gonna put my baby down, I'm gonna go squirt." "I'm gonna squirt tomorrow." You know, I'm gonna - instead like, I'm gonna watch a five minute video about squirting tomorrow.
Hannah Witton
Right. Okay. Yeah, yeah,
Dr Tara Suwinyattichaiporn
Yeah, or, "Oh, I'm gonna embark on sexual mindfulness journey. I'm going to start journaling about my sex life, and how I feel sexually, like a sexual exploration. I'm going to start sex journaling." Okay. Instead of, "Oh, I'm gonna write one full page every day." You know. And then of course, like, after two or three days - this is why people shouldn't do like new year resolution, because -
Hannah Witton
You're an anti resolution person, I see.
Dr Tara Suwinyattichaiporn
Right, like first two months of the gym is always full. And then third month is empty.
Hannah Witton
Yeah.
Dr Tara Suwinyattichaiporn
Because like big goals like that hurt your self esteem. Saying, "Oh, I'm gonna write one full page of journaling every single day" is not helpful. What's helpful is, "I'm going to write one sentence every day until I feel comfortable, then I'm going to write two and three, and four, and a paragraph, and one page." So let's start by writing one sentence in our journal every day about our sexual exploration, and it could be anything. Like, I do this every single day, I write like at least three sentences in my journal every day. Something I'm thankful for, someone I'm thankful for, and how I feel sexually.
Hannah Witton
Oh, nice. Yeah.
Dr Tara Suwinyattichaiporn
And it's just so simple and no pressure and life's great. I go with the flow of the universe. And I don't have to like force myself when I'm busy. Making it another stressful thing.
Hannah Witton
Yeah. So it's just like breaking those just little things down so that you are actually - you've got those achievements, because you feel like "I did this today. And I did this today." Even if they are like, they seem like small and inconsequential. It gives you that like boost.
Dr Tara Suwinyattichaiporn
100%. And research in positive psychology will show that achieving little things daily builds your self esteem.
Hannah Witton
Mmm. Can it be just as simple as just like "I had a shower"?
Dr Tara Suwinyattichaiporn
Sure. Yeah. Like whatever you feel is an accomplishment. It's very subjective, right?
Hannah Witton
I mean, yeah, cuz I didn't have a shower today. I didn't get a chance to. So having a shower isn't accomplishment for me.
Dr Tara Suwinyattichaiporn
Yeah, I love it. I mean, I'm not a big fan of showering. But that's a different topic. I'm a shower every three days kind of person.
Hannah Witton
Fair enough each to their own. Each to their own. And I know that California is having a drought constantly. So you're just - you're helping.
Dr Tara Suwinyattichaiporn
Water conscious, if you say.
Hannah Witton
Exactly. Exactly. All right, I kind of want to go back to you said about mindfulness and the journaling. Because you have an ebook on sexual mindfulness. Do you want to talk a bit about what sexual mindfulness is?
Dr Tara Suwinyattichaiporn
Yeah. Sexual mindfulness is the ability to be present and non judgmental in the moment during sex or a sexual experience. Because when I say during sex, some people think penetration. Any sexual experience. Yeah.
Hannah Witton
And that's pretty hard. Because like -
Dr Tara Suwinyattichaiporn
It's a simple definition, but very hard to do.
Hannah Witton
Yeah.
Dr Tara Suwinyattichaiporn
Staying fully present and engaged with no judgement, right? Like, let's put that into context. A context where someone is not present is when you're thinking about something else. Intrusive thoughts. Happens all the time.
Hannah Witton
Yeah.
Dr Tara Suwinyattichaiporn
Intrusive thoughts, or thinking about something else. Thinking "when will this end?" Thinking about past like sexual interaction that was better than this one?
Hannah Witton
Yeah. There's the judgement.
Dr Tara Suwinyattichaiporn
Yeah. Or if not thinking about other people, thinking too much about yourself and the way you look. The way you sound. The way you 'should' be looking and sounding. Or, "Oh, I'm gonna start faking my orgasm so this ends." So all of this is non present examples. So in a way if we're talking about sexual mindfulness, those are examples of sexual mindlessness.
Hannah Witton
Ooh, mindlessness? Yeah. Brutal.
Dr Tara Suwinyattichaiporn
Yeah. Brutal, right? People have said I can be brutal. But I kind of like it.
Hannah Witton
I think like when you put - because I'm like, that's such a normal experience, the word mindlessness - I'm just "Ooh, that hurts." Like, yeah.
Dr Tara Suwinyattichaiporn
Whip you into shape! But basically, mindfulness in a way, it's a simple thing that's hard to do that we can all try to do on a regular basis through different mindfulness practices, like journaling, breath work, meditation.
Hannah Witton
Yeah. And those are like three things that I feel like people talk about them a lot. Not just in like, the, like, sex sense, like, but also just in other parts of life as well. And they're always the things that people are like - and especially me, I'm just like, "Ugh, meditation, ugh, journaling." But then as soon as you actually, like, start doing it, you're like, "Ah! Oh, okay." Like I haven't, I have not even had the chance to since my son's been born. But before that, like for a year and a half, I had like a daily gratitude practice. And it honestly made me feel amazing. I was so happy. I am now obviously, as well, it's not that I stopped doing my gratitude practice, and now I'm miserable. But it's, yeah, that kind of like daily journaling. It was so small and so like - but it felt really significant in the long term.
Dr Tara Suwinyattichaiporn
I love that you share that because, like, for me, too, you know, I started three years ago. And like I said, I only do three sentences. Because I don't like pressure. And I don't want to be like, "I'm gonna write one page." Like, nope, I'm writing three sentences, that's my boundary. I have boundaries. I was like -
Hannah Witton
I was like that as well! I was, like three things I'm grateful for. And it literally could just be the weather.
Dr Tara Suwinyattichaiporn
Yeah, I'm - a lot of times I also write like, "I'm thankful for my legs." Because I was like walking to the cafe, you know? And yeah, I'm thankful for my legs. I'm thankful for my boobs.
Hannah Witton
Fair enough.
Dr Tara Suwinyattichaiporn
I'm thankful for my assistant, thankful for my friend, like, just so simple. And it takes less than - like, realistically, it takes less than two minutes. So it is definitely something everyone can do. It's just that remembering to do it and making it a habit is difficult. Because creating new habits is difficult. And you know, there's a lot of speakers that are very well renowned and famous talking about creating new habits. And it's really having to do it little by little every single day.
Hannah Witton
Yeah. So how can these things help with staying mindful during sex? So if you have like a mindfulness practice outside of sex, is it a case that during sex like by osmosis, you'll just like be better at it? Or is it still kind of like, an active thing that you have to do?
Dr Tara Suwinyattichaiporn
It's very much like that? Yeah, it's very much transferable. So one of the things that I talk about a lot is sex meditation, or sexual meditation.
Hannah Witton
Ooh, what's that?
Dr Tara SuwinyattichaipornAnd I have free like guided sexual meditation on YouTube. And it's just if anyone wants to start practising sexual meditation for five minutes every day, I have a guide on YouTube, that it's just simply the same as regular guided meditation, but it focuses on sexual sensations and sexual thoughts. So I have different ones that I recommend. So the first one would be sexual thoughts. And this is a five minute meditation practice where you just follow whatever prompt, you know, I say, like, "Think about this." And you just think about that. And even the fact that you are sitting down, quietly focusing, and thinking about sex for five minutes every single day, there is empirical research from the University of British Columbia sexuality lab that show that this practice enhances female and male sexual functioning like tenfold.
Hannah Witton
Wow.
Dr Tara Suwinyattichaiporn
Yeah. So it is so powerful. You just have to do it.
Hannah Witton
Homework!
Dr Tara Suwinyattichaiporn
There's empirical proof. There's proof. You just have to do it. And I try to make it as easy as possible for people to just listen, like you can be in your car, you can be in your bathroom. You can be anywhere private for five minutes. Just five minutes. Listen to this in your headphones and follow the instructions. You're not alone. You're not in the quiet space by yourself.
Hannah Witton
I'm putting this down as homework for myself.
Dr Tara Suwinyattichaiporn
Yeah, just five minutes, and you will find that you feel sexually differently after a week.
Hannah Witton
Oh, wow.
Dr Tara Suwinyattichaiporn
Because now you're thinking about sex daily. Some people go by day by day, have not thought about sex once. And some people have done that for 10 years, 20 years, 30 years. If you don't use it, you lose it. We all know that for a fact.
Hannah Witton
I'm living breathing that right now. So. So that makes a lot of sense.
Dr Tara Suwinyattichaiporn
But instead of, you know, instead of like a fear base. I don't want it to be like, "Oh, my God, like, you don't have sex, you'll be shitty at sex." Like, no. It takes five minutes daily to maintain the oil in your engine. And you can totally do it.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, yeah. And like, even if you're not, like having sexual experiences with a partner, still kind of maintaining that connection with yourself as a sexual being.
Dr Tara Suwinyattichaiporn
Oh, 100%. How - that is more important than the partner. Like, you maintain yourself and you will feel good sexually and sexually empowered on your own. That is easily transferable to a partnered sexual situation. You and your own like sexual empowerment comes first.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, 100%. I wanted to ask about - so you're from Thailand, and you moved to the US. And I was wondering, what about like Thai culture influences your work and kind of what - if there were - there's never like a singular country's attitude towards sexuality, obviously, but kind of like from like, growing up, what were some of the messages you received about sexuality and like, how have they like impacted you as an adult now?
Dr Tara Suwinyattichaiporn
Oh, I love talking about this. Because I think a lot of people don't know about this is the stereotype about Thailand is Thai culture is very sexual due to how popular sex tourism is in Thailand. Men from around the world, we'll fly to Thailand to go have sex with prostitutes or sex workers. And that's just a thing everyone knows. Like, it's not a taboo thing. Like it's, it's the thing everyone knows. There's a lot of British men there, you know, having sex with sex workers like it's, it's a thing, right? Yet what people don't know is Thai culture is very, very, very sexually conservative. We don't even get sex education. There's no sex ed. So it's so conservative sex is never talked about in the household. Sex is even rarely talked about in a relationship. Sex is not taught. So there's no sex education in school. It is very conservative. And because it's not talked about the subliminary or micro messages that we get about sex and how we make meaning of what being sexual means is through media. I learned everything about how much we value or don't value sex from media from watching like soap operas and you know, like, from TV shows in Thailand and movies.
Hannah Witton
What kind of messages were in them?
Dr Tara Suwinyattichaiporn
Yeah, the messages that are in them are number one: good women are not sexual. Good women, goody goody, are like angelic pure women that are not sexual, don't talk about sex, don't know what sex i.s very innocent. Number two: sexually confident women are bad women or whores. Not marriageable, not girlfriend material. They're like side chicks material.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, it's the Madonna/whore complex.
Dr Tara Suwinyattichaiporn
100%. Like, extreme in Thailand. And then number three: men do what the fuck ever they want. Yeah. Because we have bathhouses in Thailand. Anyone can go anytime, walk in, just walk in, no need for appointments. Walk in, select a girl, in one of these containers like a room with like one sided mirror.
Hannah Witton
Oh right, yeah.
Dr Tara Suwinyattichaiporn
Select a girl, they take you to the room, they wash you, they have sex with you. It's a known thing in Thailand. Known thing that men go and do. And accepted. So that's number three is men can do what the fuck ever they want.
Hannah Witton
What fun.
Dr Tara Suwinyattichaiporn
So that's three messages I have learned as a young girl in Thailand when it comes to sexuality.
Hannah Witton
How did you get to where you are now then? As a you know, like as a sex researcher and clearly not the like believing in those values anymore? Like, what was that journey like?
Dr Tara Suwinyattichaiporn
Hannah.
Hannah Witton
We need another hour.
Dr Tara Suwinyattichaiporn
A lot of fucking work. Just a lot of work. Straight work. Um, the number one thing, the first thing was desire to change. You know, breaking down crying and just like "What the fuck is wrong with me?" And finding out what is wrong with me and why am I this way. And getting out of that pattern and moving forward in a new direction and basically committing to my new person. And continuously behave like this new person, new set of values. And it's hard. I talk to a lot of clients and friends that, you know, are now in the space where I was, and I know exactly what it's like, and it's not a happy place. Guilt-ridden.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, because those values are so entrenched.
Dr Tara Suwinyattichaiporn
Yeah, yeah. When I was young, you know, I had - consistently had different boyfriends, right, because I had no idea what - how I was supposed to be, what a healthy relationship looks like, what a healthy sexual relationship looks like, how to initiate sex or not initiate sex. So I had a lot of like, bad relationships. And because of that, I would say a lot of girls thought, you know, like, I'm a slut. And not, you know, not a good girl due to that. And I worked on getting rid of that for a long time. Right? Like, how do you get out of that idea that just because you were sexually active, and you're just - I was just a horny kid. I'm still horny. Like, I'm just a horny girl. Like, what can I do? I couldn't help my hormones. You know, I'm like, 15 and horny, what can I do?
Hannah Witton
What can you do?
Dr Tara Suwinyattichaiporn
Right. And all I knew was, you know, approaching people romantically and have some type of sexual experience, not necessarily penetration, but have some type of sexual experience. And then you become a slut. Yeah. And how do you get rid of that label not only for societally but like for yourself?
Hannah Witton
You move countries. You leave the country.
Dr Tara Suwinyattichaiporn
That's what I did! So yeah, if anyone wants to come to America... just kidding.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, cuz it's notoriously great over there as well.
Dr Tara Suwinyattichaiporn
I mean it's everywhere. It's everywhere. But I've worked on it for a long time with a therapist, with a coach, and just for myself is committing to new practices, right. Journaling, talking about sex, and really like becoming a sex researcher has been healing. Because the more I research - I mean, this book is no joke, it's huge.
Hannah Witton
Yeah. Wow. That's a massive textbook.
Dr Tara Suwinyattichaiporn
It's a textbook. Yeah. And researching for this book, I learned so much about the variety of attitudes, experiences, practices of sex around the world, and it's just very eye opening and it makes me feel much more like, "Oh, you know, I'm super normal."
Hannah Witton
Yeah! It's when you have that knowledge about the actual reality of sexuality rather than these, like conservative values that you're fed as a child. Yeah. We've got a bunch of questions from folks on Instagram.
Dr Tara Suwinyattichaiporn
Okay.
Hannah Witton
Who want to ask you? Somebody asked: where do I start with dirty talk? My partner wants it, but I completely freeze and I don't know what to say. Do you have any dirty talk tips?
Dr Tara Suwinyattichaiporn
Ooh, love it! Actually like it's funny, there's a whole chapter in this textbook. So let me go there.
Hannah Witton
Oh my god, yeah. I love the idea of having like a school textbook that's like how to do dirty talk.
Dr Tara Suwinyattichaiporn
Dirty talk is actually there's a lot of research that found that people that are more sexually confident do more dirty talk, which makes a lot of sense, right? Yeah, like of course.
Hannah Witton
I think people also build a talk up in their mind as something bigger than what it needs to be. Like, it doesn't have to be like this huge roleplay thing necessarily.
Dr Tara Suwinyattichaiporn
Yeah, I think that's a really good point. Like what - let's say, you know, what do you think - what do you - let's, let's give an example.
Hannah Witton
Oh god. Okay.
Dr Tara Suwinyattichaiporn
What would you say? Like just one sentence, one thing.
Hannah Witton
I really like it when you touch me there.
Dr Tara Suwinyattichaiporn
Yeah. There you go. Then that's literally that by itself can be dirty talk. Like I think people think you know, the super non PC version that's like "Yeah, come here, you fucking slut, I'm gonna shove my cock down your throat." Like, you know? That's what - because that's what they see on porn. That's where everyone learns everything.
Hannah Witton
Yeah. It's basically is talking about what you are doing, what you want to do, what you just did.
Dr Tara Suwinyattichaiporn
Right? And it doesn't really - it really never has to be something that intense. It can be I love your body. It can be a directive, like: bend over.
Hannah Witton
Oh, yeah. Spicy.
Dr Tara Suwinyattichaiporn
Like if you just say that with conviction: bend over. Like, that's hot, right? I mean, if you want to, if you want to like -
Hannah Witton
If you want to bend over and the other person also wants to bend over. Caveat everything.
Dr Tara Suwinyattichaiporn
I know I'm like star star star. Yeah. "I want to be your dirty slut."
Hannah Witton
Oh, yeah. Getting spicier.
Dr Tara Suwinyattichaiporn
Because remember, dirty talk is not PC. Like, this is not real life.
Hannah Witton
And you can take it as far as you want, as far as you're comfortable with, as well. And also I think -
Dr Tara Suwinyattichaiporn
Even saying, "You taste so good." I love this one. "You taste so good."
Hannah Witton
I think this also like comes back to what we were saying near the beginning about the aftercare as well. Because if you do take your dirty talk quite far with lots of like, slut, bitch, like fuck and or like, you know, whatever, then that might, you know, that might not be how you talk to each other outside of that context. And so like having that transitional moment, having that aftercare, to kind of bring you out of that, and into your non sexual life together, where you're not like slapping each other around the arse and calling each other like a slut bitch fuck cunt or whatever.
Hannah Witton
I like that.
Dr Tara Suwinyattichaiporn
However, I think my - when I feel very like spicy, I might say like, "Daddy tastes so good." And he blushes, he like blushes, he's like, "Uh huh! Mmhmm! Yeah!"
Dr Tara Suwinyattichaiporn
100% like, the comedown, there has to be -
Hannah Witton
Yeah, exactly. Like, also such as I think it's quite funny when you - you might shock yourself in terms of like what you say in the moment. And then you need a moment to be like, "Did I just say that?"
Dr Tara Suwinyattichaiporn
Exactly. Exactly. And like, you know, especially in a heterosexual relationship. I think there's so much wiggle room for what - for like what men can say.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, right.
Dr Tara Suwinyattichaiporn
And that can be like, it could be hurtful.
Hannah Witton
Yeah. Because yeah, everyone's gonna have different boundaries in terms of what feels good. And what actually could potentially be like some triggering words or phrases for them as well.
Dr Tara Suwinyattichaiporn
Be gentle. With your dirty talk.
Hannah Witton
Yeah. Gentle dirty talk. Um, somebody actually asked: so how does one become a sex researcher? And why was it something that you wanted to do?
Dr Tara Suwinyattichaiporn
I love that. So anyone can become a sex researcher right now by just, you know, if you're - if we're talking about understanding a body of research, like understanding - let's say you want to understand faked orgasm literature. You can start just reading peer reviewed research articles and writing faked orgasm summaries and submit it to like Psychology Today. And you are a sex researcher, right?
Hannah Witton
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Dr Tara Suwinyattichaiporn
Anyone can be a sex researcher like tomorrow, if you have the will to do so. Right. But if you're talking about like academically, whether or not you're in your undergraduate degree, or masters, or a PhD - at every level, you will be conducting research. And this is - this includes like collecting data from participants in different things. And when you're at school, you'll learn how to collect data, how to write up the data analysis, and stuff like that. So I would say if you're interested in academically, definitely go to school for a topic related to it. Right? It can be social sciences degree, psychology degree, communication degree, anthropology degree. There's so many degrees that can -
Hannah Witton
Yeah, and there are some universities that do have like, specifically like sex - yeah, yeah. Like, there's some as well, like, I know, in the UK, there's some like masters courses there about like, sex and culture, and sex in media and society. So like, and then there's also like the more like, medical route as well.
Dr Tara Suwinyattichaiporn
Sexual health.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, like the sexual health route. So there's, yeah, there's lots of options. But I love the idea that like, hey, anyone can be a researcher, and like, hey, you can survey your group of friends and then see what trends you find.
Dr Tara Suwinyattichaiporn
Exactly. You can be like, "Hey, like 30 people, take my survey, I have a five question survey about how you feel about sex." And then you can say like, "Hey, I collect anonymous survey and I want to post it somewhere."
Hannah Witton
Yeah.
Dr Tara Suwinyattichaiporn
You can post it on Medium and who knows, maybe it becomes super big and someone wants to interview you for your 30 people survey, what did you find?
Hannah Witton
Yeah. Oh, I do like a sexy survey on my Instagram polls every year with my audience. And so now I'm just like, "Oh, I'm a researcher. I'm surveying people about sex."
Dr Tara Suwinyattichaiporn
I love it! I recently did a poll of the vulva and vagina. And I - like a picture of it. And I said, "Is this a vulva or vagina?" And it's a picture of the whole system. So vulva. Then, you know, like, 61 person said vagina. And so I looked into the 61 person: it's boys.
Hannah Witton
Oh no. Well, Tara, thank you so much for joining me. This has just been absolutely delightful. Do please plug away all of your stuff, your textbook, your ebook, your social media, like where can people find more of you and your brilliant work?
Dr Tara Suwinyattichaiporn
Thank you so much for having me. It's been an orgasmic conversation.
Hannah Witton
Ooh! Love it.
Dr Tara Suwinyattichaiporn
You can find me on my website, luvbites.co. That's LUVBITES.co. All my social media is luvbites.co. I have Instagram and TikTok. My TikTok is very bustling right now so it's a fun place to be.
Hannah Witton
Oh nice. That's cool.
Dr Tara Suwinyattichaiporn
And yeah, you can find all my work on my website luvbites.co. Thanks for having me, Hannah.
Hannah Witton
Thank you so much. And thank you all for listening. Goodbye.