Sexual Assault and Working Through Trauma with Jimanekia Eborn | Transcript
CW: murder, sexual assault, and other forms of trauma all discussed throughout the episode
Find the episode shownotes here!
Hannah Witton
Hi everyone. Welcome back to Doing It, the sex and relationships podcast where sex has never been so nerdy, with me, your host, Hannah Witton.
This week I'm joined by the brilliant Jimanekia Eborn. Jimanekia is a queer sexual assault and trauma expert, trauma media consultant and comprehensive sex educator with a master's in health psychology. She has worked in mental health for the past 13 years in sex education and sexual trauma support. Jimanekia is also the host of Trauma Queen, a podcast for survivors of assault and allies, and the founder of Tending the Garden, a nonprofit for sexual assault survivors of different marginalised identities. Jimanekia also co founded Centaury Co, which brings increased representation to the field of intimacy coordination in the film and TV industries.
I wanted to get Jimanekia on the podcast to draw on both her personal experiences as well as years of working in trauma to share helpful insights into working through trauma for you, our dear listeners. We spoke about why Jimanekia calls herself the trauma queen, her personal experience of trauma as a child and adult, and how that led to her working and trauma from within mental health to sex ed and to the screen. Jimanekia spoke about the importance of trauma consultants for screen and why it's so important to work with those who have experienced trauma themselves. We talked about how there is no separation between trauma and the body, why a lot of trauma survivors have gut issues, and Jimanekia spoke about the benefit from somatic therapy and exploring how we hold trauma in our bodies as well as our minds.
We talked about reconnecting with yourself after trauma and Jimanekia talked about why after trauma you have to date yourself and relearn what your body likes and how it responds to different things. She spoke about the importance of understanding different triggers in sex and intimacy after trauma and the importance of understanding yourself and your body before bringing someone else in. We had a very interesting conversation about genital non concordance during trauma experiences and how confusing that can be. Jimanekia told me about her work in diversifying intimacy coordination, training coordinators to work with themes of trauma, and importance of intimacy coordinators being able to understand and look out for potential traumatic experiences on set for actors. I really enjoyed this chat as not only did Jimanekia share so many useful insights in how to heal and reconnect with your body and sexuality after trauma, but also managed to broach this really heavy topic in a light and accessible way.
Please note that we do talk about murder, sexual assault, and other forms of trauma in this episode, so do take care of yourself before and whilst listening or just give this one a miss entirely if that's what you need.
As usual, you can find more info and links to everything that we talked about in this episode in the shownotes over at doingitpodcast.co.uk where you can also find transcripts, and please let us know what you think over on our Instagram, which is @doingitpodcast. And if you liked this episode, please leave us a rating and review over on iTunes and Spotify. It is really appreciated. And without further ado, here's my conversation with Jimanekia Eborn.
Jimanekia, welcome to the podcast. Absolute pleasure to have you here. How are you?
Jimanekia Eborn
It's Thursday and that's all I got. We're out of Mercury Retrograde so I'm excited.
Hannah Witton
Oh, good. Do you know what, the whole astrology thing is not something I know a lot about or subscribe to. But my producer and I had a really tough day filming one time and she was like, "It's Mercury, man," and I was like, "Yeah, fuck Mercury." Yeah, it - obviously it's real now because I'm affected by it, so.
Jimanekia Eborn
You're like now that it's touched me, I believe in it, I'm in.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, exactly. Well, Jimanekia, we are gonna get into some real stuff in this episode. You call yourself the trauma queen. What - what does that mean?
Jimanekia Eborn
Well, I think highly of myself now that I've out of my 20s so that's why the queen part and trauma because it is my jam, right? Like, I know people see trauma, they're like, "Oh, no!" I'm like, trauma, and I'm like, "Okay, there's growth. We can evolve." Like, I kind of look at it in a different light. And so for me trauma queen is just me encompassed. It is my status of a human and how I move through the world and the things that I do and the things that people know me to often speak about.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, so how did you kind of get into that being your thing, like doing a lot of trauma work and consulting?
Jimanekia Eborn
Yeah, well, okay, buckle up everybody. So I'm gonna say a hard thing. I always like to preface that. So I have been noting and stating for years now that I am a child of trauma. My mother was murdered in front of me when I was one years old. Which is actually really interesting because two weeks ago, the person that murdered my mother is finally going to trial. And they're talking about it 34 years later, so my family's a little shook.
Hannah Witton
Wow. Yeah.
Jimanekia Eborn
It's wild. And so I am a walking true crime story for the most part, and -
Hannah Witton
Oh no.
Jimanekia Eborn
- and I wanted to help domestic violence survivors. When I was 21, I was raped. And I always like to note that sexual assault is the umbrella and rape is underneath it. And so it's a form of sexual assault. So I was raped when I was 21. And it changed my life as it does for many people. And I then journeyed into psychology and mental health. I've been studying psychology, actually, since high school. And I was like, "Maybe this is what I should do." And my family was like, "Duh, we've been waiting on you." And I was like, "We all could have saved so much money here, guys, if someone had told me." And it's kind of just been that. I have been one of those people that wants to know everything. So every two years, I've worked in a different mental health facility with different types of clients, all throughout my 20s. And around 28, I was feeling a lot of burnout, because mental health is a lot. And I was like, I want to do something that's ever evolving and fun. And I was like, "Oh my god, sex." I was - my grandmother and she was like, "What does that even mean? What is happening?" And I was like, "I'll get back to you." And so I dove into sex ed, I went to every conference I could find, I met all the people and started networking. And what I saw was, there's a lot of people talking about lubes, and toys, and penetration, and scissoring, and all these -
Hannah Witton
The kind of sexy side of sex ed.
Jimanekia Eborn
Yeah. But like, what about all the people that are like, "That sounds cool and all, but like, I'm not there." And I was like, "Ooh, those are my people." And I don't believe in necessarily needing to reinvent the wheel, but seeing where I fit in. And I was like, I've been in mental health since I was 21. I was like, I've been doing this seven years, intensely, on top of everything else I've done. And I was like, let's, you know, fill that gap. Let's do the hard part. And it's been so good. Like, it's been so fun for me and all the projects I've gotten to do. And it's continued, like I'm continuing to expand. And that's, that's kind of how I got here. Where it's going, who knows, we'll find out.
Hannah Witton
Well, I'm so grateful that people like you exist, because I definitely like don't always feel equipped to broach the topic of trauma when it comes to sex ed. And even on this podcast, it's something that like often comes up in other conversations that you're having, because unfortunately, like it is everywhere, and often for people part of that human experience. But it's never something that we've really tackled head on. So yeah, I'm really glad to have you here to kind of take us on that journey. And so you now are kind of like a trauma consultant, and do a lot of that kind of stuff in like media, I guess. And so I love talking about media when it comes to things like sex and relationships. So do you want to take us through like why it's important when it comes to the media that we watch, TV shows and films that depict trauma, especially like sexual trauma, like to have people behind the scenes who, you know, like, are experts like yourselves weigh in on on those storylines?
Jimanekia Eborn
Yeah, I think that there's a lot of goodness in having consultants that know things. In general.
Hannah Witton
The definition of a consultant, you know, if you're hiring the right people.
Jimanekia Eborn
Yeah, I think - I think the part that is so needed is because of the exposure value, there's going to be tonnes of individuals that see it. And because, you know, the numbers say one in six men and one in three women - not counting all these other identities - are sexually assaulted, survivors are going to see it. And so if there is an actual view of what it looks like, I've seen things, I'm like, "What? No one acts like this." Right? Like, yes, survivors all move differently. We all have different responses and what not, but when we see it done so poorly in films, it's really shitty. And also, people assume that's what a survivor looks like. And it's like, there's just -
Hannah Witton
And what a perpetrator looks like as well.
Jimanekia Eborn
Yeah, it kind of puts people into these boxes, which I actually think is more harmful than good because you'll only be looking out for this one thing, when it's, you know, we're all susceptible to being harmed. Any age, any gender, any identity, which is really unfortunate. But I think having someone there that's like, "Hey, what about this?" It can bring realism to something which can be really hard for some people, but also I know people go, "They got it right." Like, other people will understand my story. And I think doing work on the back end is truly work for survivors, because we're teaching other people how to hold space for us or show up or have a hard conversation and/or not to just assume like, "Hey, that happened to you two weeks ago, like you're not over it yet?" Like, how many times have I heard that? Like, "Well it was like two years ago? Like, we should move on." Yeah, that's not how bodies work. That's not how trauma works.
Hannah Witton
Yeah. Oh, okay. So I want to tap into that, that's not how bodies work. And absolutely want to come back to the media stuff as well. But a book that I hear talked about everywhere, and it's one that's, like, so high up on my TBR, is the Body Keeps the Score. Can you kind of give us a little rundown about trauma and our bodies and how that kind of functions?
Jimanekia Eborn
Yeah, I will say, y'all, and this is probably not a popular opinion: there are other books.
Hannah Witton
Ooh, okay. This is just like the popular one that everyone's talks about.
Jimanekia Eborn
There are other books that aren't just written by straight white men. I'm just gonna leave that there.
Hannah Witton
Oh, is it? I didn't even know who the author was so there you go. Interesting. Thank you.
Jimanekia Eborn
Bessel.
Hannah Witton
Yes. If you have any recommendations, please do send them over and we can pop them all in the shownotes.
Jimanekia Eborn
Yeah, yeah, I'll send you - my favourite book is The Tao of Trauma, but I'll send you the stuff. But for me, what I think about bodies and trauma, I just think that there's no separation in them. Because the trauma is happening to our bodies, which is so wild to me. So I went to school to be a therapist for marriage and family therapy. I did not finish the programme because I was like, "This is not what I want. I have like four classes left." And I was like, "Ah."
Hannah Witton
Wow.
Jimanekia Eborn
I know, I'm weird. I went back to school for health psychology. And I'll tell you why. Because most medicine is like just looking at your body, like, oh, you hurt your arm, you hurt your leg, your head, whatever. And then psychology is about your brain. I don't know anybody that's been ever been like, let me just separate everything and put it side by side and address it, right?
Hannah Witton
Yeah.
Jimanekia Eborn
And so we're full systems. And I always think about it as like, we're a full circuit board. We're a full system. And if something happens to my left shoulder, there might be something else triggered in my body, that's going to also ache or something happen. And that's how trauma is. So say we are sexually assaulted. It might show up in different places. And so common places that folks notice stress, anxiety, trauma: our shoulders, our chest, our hips, and our gut.
Hannah Witton
Oh, wow. Okay.
Jimanekia Eborn
And so I'm always asking people and this - I'm that age. I'm the age that I'm like talking with friends, I'm like, "You poopin? How are your bowels? Are they good?"
Hannah Witton
Yeah. Very important question.
Jimanekia Eborn
Yeah, at this age - I mean, everyone, however old you are, ask your friends how their poop is! They might not even be paying attention!
Hannah Witton
I mean, I've had a chronic illness that is IBD. So all about the bowel since I was seven. So I'm all about talking about poop.
Jimanekia Eborn
I'm like, "Yeah, we can talk. What do you need? Okay, let's talk about like how to -" And for me, I think that's a conversation that most people overlook, right? Because we notice a lot of survivors have a lot of gut health struggles. Because there's a lot of pain and anxiety and stress and trauma that's held within there. There's also a lot of folks that are moving towards more like somatic work, which is more like body movement and stuff. For folks that don't know, somatic therapy is another form of therapy. Because again, we're holding things in our bodies. Things happen to our body. So why wouldn't we focus on working on our bodies? Right? People are always like, "Go to talk therapy," and I'm like "Talk therapy's cool. But also it's not for everyone. There's other options." And I think when we're thinking about trauma, we have to take a step back and go, "Where did the trauma happen? What's happening in your body? Is your speech different? That's a part of your body. Is the way you walk different? Is your food intake different? How's your sleeping?" All of this is things that we're holding in our bodies and that we can navigate. So for me, yes, the body does keep the score, right? Like very, very catchy title, I love it.
Hannah Witton
Very catchy,
Jimanekia Eborn
But our bodies are our truth tellers. And I often tell folks like your body knows before your brain does.
Hannah Witton
Oh, a hundred percent.
Jimanekia Eborn
Before it travels, right? I've also had chronic pain for a very long time. I've tendinitis in both my hands, my neck is unaligned, my back, all these kinds of things. And it's like, "Oh, your body will tell you: hey, we're going to need a break now. Hey, you're tired, let me tell you why, Hey, there's this thing." And so I think within trauma, society-wise, especially here in America, we are taught to just keep going, and just keep pushing through.
Hannah Witton
I was going to ask, like, why do you think we find it so hard to often listen to our bodies? Let alone understand them. Like, even if we're like, "Okay, I'm listening. Body, what are you telling me?" And then also having to interpret that? Why do you think we have this, like, disconnect?
Jimanekia Eborn
Well, like I said, here it's like, you gotta keep going. You take a second, maybe, but you know, you got to go work. You got to help someone else. And I've been looking at other cultures. And it's like, I was in Spain earlier this year. And they're like, "Oh, no, it's siesta time. We're, you know, we're doing -"
Hannah Witton
Everything is closed!
Jimanekia Eborn
I'm like, what is this? Okay. We don't have that here. It's like, why are you resting? There's things to do. And our bodies are actually, for a lot of us, are constantly in heightened. A lot of us are actually walking around in flight or fight mode all the time.
Hannah Witton
Yeah. That makes me stressed just thinking about.
Jimanekia Eborn
Truthfully, same!
Hannah Witton
I'm just like, "Oh, yeah, I am." I don't know, like, when the last time I properly relaxed for more than two hours was.
Jimanekia Eborn
Yeah. And then if you add in like just regular life things. Then if you add in if you have kids, if you have multiple jobs, if you're taking care of someone, right? There's always like the starter pack of stress and trauma. And then it just keeps upgrading in ways that you're like, "No, no, I don't want that upgrade. That's not - , no - no thank you."
Hannah Witton
Not that one! Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Okay, so when it comes to kind of like all of this stuff about trauma and our bodies, and then we kind of introduce sexuality, and sex and relationships into the mix - like, what are some common things that you see coming up? Because another, like, kind of cliched bit of sex advice that I, you know, I'm always saying is like, listen to your body. Like, so how, especially if you are someone who is a survivor, and like working through trauma as well, like, what are some ways that we can kind of connect to our bodies in a sexual sense, and actually listen to like what is going on?
Jimanekia Eborn
Yeah, and I'm cliche always be like, "You need to date yourself." People are like, "That's not what I wanted you to say." And I was like, "I know." But after trauma happens to us, our bodies do change. Right? There's some things that I used to like sexually that I'm like, I'm good on now. Or there things I didn't like before that I'm like, you know what, maybe we could try it. And so I always love walking people through like self dates, like reconnecting and understanding your own body. And also, you might have touch triggers now that maybe you didn't think about before, or position triggers, sound triggers, right? Like, we can be triggered by any of our five senses. And we can also be grounded by any of our five senses, which is like yay, wait, what? And so when in sex, or when in connection, when in touch, when in intimacy - because they're all different - I think, you know, kind of figure out where you are, and having a base point before you connect with another person or bring them in is really helpful. And then one of my other tips for folks is, don't wait until you're halfway naked to start talking about sex.
Hannah Witton
Yeah.
Jimanekia Eborn
We're in it now. Like we are. And it's fine. If that's finally the place, you talked about it. But if you want to help yourself, have a little bit of a conversation outside of the bedroom. And I always say outside. It's kind of like a little bit of a pressure because you're like, "Well, we're doing it now. Maybe I should -" No! Have it in a comfortable spot. Maybe you have it at dinner. Maybe you have it over some tea on the couch, but having a conversation of like, "Hey, here's what I like. Here's what I don't like. Here's what I'm into." Most people want a cheat sheet. Let's be honest. People like cheat sheets. You give them -
Hannah Witton
"How can I please you?"
Jimanekia Eborn
There you go, they're like, "Oh, so much pressure off." And so I'm always about doing yes, no, maybe lists. And then you can even do them as like a fun date game.
Hannah Witton
I - you're speaking my language here. I love organised fun and date games. Yeah.
Jimanekia Eborn
I think the yes, no, maybe thing is also, for some people, goes - it will expand their own thing and be like, "You know, I didn't even think about this. Cool. Maybe I'm a maybe for this depending on the situation." And then you find alignment. And sometimes when we have alignment, we feel more comfortable. And we can share more.
Hannah Witton
Because you have that cheat sheet because I feel like so many people go into sexual experiences, just like, "Oh, I hope they like what I do." And it's like, well, you don't have to feel anxious about that. Because if you have the conversation, then you can go in like being like, I feel really confident in how this encounter is gonna go because I know I've done my research
Jimanekia Eborn
Show up for yourself, listen. We'll - there's lots of people that are very selfish in bed, and I've met them, and maybe you have as well. And so it's like, how do I make sure that I'm also showing up and taking care of myself? And so I just think that having conversations beforehand, learning what feels good for you, maybe you take a hot bath and get comfortable. Maybe you pull out your favourite toys or you've been eyeing something or like starting with sensations before even making it like a sexual thing. Maybe you're just sitting around rubbing your wrist a little bit. You're like, "Ooh, I like that that feels good." Or maybe you're like a nipple or whatever. I think that is a really good way to even just get your body in alignment with what you want to do. Because oftentimes our biggest sex organ, I'm sure as you know, our brain is not always in alignment with our bodies.
Hannah Witton
No. Yeah.
Jimanekia Eborn
You can be like, "Whoo!" No.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, absolutely gutted.
Jimanekia Eborn
Yeah, there are some days and I'm like, "Don't be fooled by my vagina. I'm actually not even present. It just does its own thing sometimes." Like -
Hannah Witton
Yeah, so like, the genital non concordance that can that can happen where like your genitals are saying one thing and your brain saying another, like, what's your, your take on how you figure out which one to listen to if they aren't aligned? Because, you know, you've got songs that saying like, "She's telling me no, but her body is telling me yes." Which is not a great message to be sending.
Jimanekia Eborn
That sounds problematic.
Hannah Witton
Exactly. But then we're also trying to encourage people to listen to their bodies. So what if your brain's like no, and then your body's like, yes. And you're like, "Okay, should I be listening to my body, then? Am I a yes? Am I a no?" Like, how can we figure that out when when we're in those moments?
Jimanekia Eborn
I think your brain is going to always trump your body in that sense. Because your brain is going to be talking to you a lot louder. Right? And also, I think there's the idea of bodies react to touch some times. Right? And I think that that is also opening up that conversation, which is gonna get a little dicey when people are assaulted and they do have orgasms. Right? I don't think people talk about that enough. It's like, "Well, you had an orgasm or your body was aroused." Because that's just how my body is wired.
Hannah Witton
It's like a physiological response. Yeah.
Jimanekia Eborn
Yeah. Like, my vaginal canal might just be flowing and ready, just because that's Tuesday, I don't know. But my brain is like, we're not present. Like, I'm not good. I need a break. I would always say because it is our biggest sex organ, we can make or break any situation in there. Listen to your brain. Because even if you try to get into the act, you're not going to be present. And it's not going to be fun.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, another way that I think about this as well is like if it's flipped, if it's the other way around, where in your head, you're like, "No, I really want this," and then say, if you're someone with a vulva and you're trying to do any kind of penetration, and it's just like, "No, not today." In those situations, sometimes I'm more inclined to actually listen to the body, because I'm like, okay, maybe my brain hasn't quite caught up yet. And my body is telling me, we're not ready for this.
Jimanekia Eborn
Yeah, I'm a person that's just like, let's just pause everything.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, like something's not aligned. Let's stop.
Jimanekia Eborn
It's too much. It's too many things vibin and the vibes are off. Right? Like just taking yourself and like giving yourself a second. I will take a bathroom break. "I need to go to the bathroom really quick." Like you're allowed to take a break and like reset. And I think that we need to normalise taking breaks, maybe you really just go and be like, "I need to remove myself from this physical space." Get a sip of water. Take a little three to five breaths, and then recheck in with yourself. I think that's going to be more helpful then like, "Well, my brain said I should push through" or "my body said that I should push through." Give yourself like that space for them to possibly become in alignment. Or to get more information for yourself to truly decide what your next steps are, how you want to move for yourself.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, I think that's such an important thing to kind of give people permission to do as well is like take breaks and pause. Because we're so often - like kind of coming back to the media thing, like from the way that sex is depicted on screen it's like, you know, you do this and then it escalates to this and then it escalates here and then it escalates and bish, bash, bosh, orgasms all round or whatever it is. And once you - once you've started making out passionately, there is no stopping. There's no pausing. You're on a one track.
Jimanekia Eborn
Yeah, you know, those are, those are people that have been paid, y'all. They have been paid. And they do take breaks. Even when you are watching porn, they're also paid. And they take breaks. And they have loop shooters, and they have stretching time. And they have, you know, knowledge about things.
Hannah Witton
Stretching time! Mmm. Interesting.
Jimanekia Eborn
Like, it's not real, y'all. Like it is curated for your enjoyment.
Hannah Witton
Indeed. It is. On the screen thing, you co founded a company that I'm gonna butcher the pronunciation of: Centaury?
Jimanekia Eborn
You did it. You did it. Believe in yourself.
Hannah Witton
Cent-or-y? Cent- oh, now I've lost it.
Jimanekia Eborn
Centaury.
Hannah Witton
Centaury.
Jimanekia Eborn
Yeah, you did it. You were doing it!
Hannah Witton
There you go. We did it. Can you talk a little bit about that? Because intimacy coordination is something that we have talked about on this podcast before, but not specifically relating to trauma. So can you talk a bit about what that's all about?
Jimanekia Eborn
Yeah. So I was brought in to assist with the building of this company, because there was a lack of representation. Predominantly, everyone in the industry was a white woman. And I know we've all seen films, there are other people besides just white women in films. And so feeling safe and feeling connected. So when we came together, I was brought in to teach a trauma aspect, to talk about sex, to talk about consent, to talk about boundaries, because these are the things that we're helping people with on set. And, you know, companies were touching on it, but not in the way that we were very much pushing it. And also focusing on underrepresented folks that wanted to get into the industry was where we focused on. Because again, like I said, there's tonnes of actors, there's tonnes of people in the world that want to also feel safe and connected but sometimes you need someone that looks like you, that's similar to you, that you don't have to explain why you're upset and why you're frustrated. And so within the course that we have had, you know, we get really intense on your own mental health, your own ways that you can support yourself while you're helping other people. And what might come up while you're on set.
Like, I try to focus on teaching the folks that attend the course, you know, how to watch for body signs, how to watch for your own body signs, like if you're triggered, like how to have a conversation, how to check in with someone. And there's different ways to do it for different people. But with Centaury I am super proud of the individuals. We've done two cohorts now, and we're actually restructuring. But to see these individuals get to go out and show up and help people with like, ways that it's not just healing, but just very caring and connected is super important to me. And I think that there's so much harm that happens across the world. And no one is, you know, surprised, because hashtag Me Too, that it happens in the film industry. And so having someone there that can go, "Hey, this is not right." Or, "I will advocate for you. I got this. I know you don't - you're worried about your job or whatever. Let me step in and handle that." I love that we're able to support people to become these individuals for these actors.
Hannah Witton
Yeah. Has the kind of like rise in intimacy coordinators, or at least since I've kind of become aware of them, been kind of a result of Me Too? Because that's kind of since I've heard about them on set.
Jimanekia Eborn
Yeah, absolutely. You know, the industry was created after the show, the movie, Deuces, and it just kind of came and expanded from there. And I do believe that because of the Me Too movement - which is an unfortunate thing, right? Like love Tarana Burke, but also always sad in that it had to be created. I do believe that there has been a rise, I do believe that people are evolving and changing. But there's also tonnes of pushback.
Hannah Witton
Right. Yeah. Oh.
Jimanekia Eborn
There's also tonnes of people that's like, "If we do this, it's gonna ruin my film." No, it's not actually. It might actually help your film. Probably. 99%.
Hannah Witton
What is the follow up? Hmm, I'm trying to find the logic there. They just, they just don't want to fork out more money for another member of staff?
Jimanekia Eborn
Not even that. I just feel like there's people that, you know, are in control of certain things and have worked a certain way and they don't want to lose that. Or they feel like they're losing control. And our goal is just to truly allow your films to look better. We want your sex scenes to look realistic, because I've seen some sex scenes, and I'm like, "What is happening - this is not doing it." And so that's what that is for, like allowing people to tap in, and maybe helping your scenes look better and allowing them to be fully present emotionally, spiritually, physically, in your scenes, I think is really helpful. And yeah, I mean, there's just pushback for some people and I personally think it is a lack of information, a lack of knowledge of what ICs do. And also, there's just some people that are like, "I've done it this way for so long. I don't need anyone to tell me how to do it differently."
Hannah Witton
Yeah. No, that makes sense. And I'm glad that there are intimacy coordinators now. I remember when I first learned about them, I was just like, "Oh my goodness, they didn't have that before?"
Jimanekia Eborn
I know!
Hannah Witton
Like, how did people do even just a kissing scene without that kind of work that goes in behind the scenes with an intimacy coordinator?
Jimanekia Eborn
Absolutely. And then you look back, and you're like, "I see they did not have one for this one. This looks fake. What are we doing? This? Like you hate each other."
Hannah Witton
Yeah. Yeah. There you go. So what - I want to hear from you some just like examples, or recommendations of shows, kind of like going back to the kind of the sexual trauma when that's depicted on screen. Because you mentioned like times when it's done poorly and times it's done well. And do you have any recommendations? One of the first shows that comes to mind is Michaela Coel's I May Destroy You. And I wondered what you - if you'd seen that and what you thought of that? Because that really tackles sexual trauma.
Jimanekia Eborn
I have a secret. I haven't watched it.
Hannah Witton
Fair enough.
Jimanekia Eborn
Everyone's always like, "What do you mean, you haven't seen it?" And there's people that are like, "You guys look alike. Like, why haven't you watched it?" And I was like, "I think beautiful humans-"
Hannah Witton
A lot of people I know, just like, "I don't think I can watch it." Because because of what they've heard about it in terms of it potentially being quite triggering as well.
Jimanekia Eborn
Triggering things doesn't scare me away. I think when it came out, I was just, you know, in the spin of COVID. And my brain was like, I can only deal with happy things right now.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, it wasn't - yeah.
Jimanekia Eborn
And I just haven't gone back. I've seen like, I think I've watched like the first episode. I will say this: anytime someone is able to fully share their story, and help someone else, I am a fan. Like I know for a fact many people saw it and were like, "The way it was done was beautiful. Like, I connected with it. Was it hard? Yes. Did I have to take breaks? Yes. But I'm so glad that it was done." And I will say like, I've watched Chewing Gum, I've watched a lot of her work. And I know that she does it all very intentional because she writes all of her own stuff by herself. And so for me, I haven't seen it and just thinking about films in general, I don't know, honestly. You know what I will say one of the first films that I saw, and I was probably too young, that truly like captivated my brain was a film called Bastard Out of Carolina.
Hannah Witton
Right. Never heard of it.
Jimanekia Eborn
It's... what is her name? It's an actress that... I just can't think of right now. But it was sexual assault. It was a child. It was grooming. It was all of these things. And I think the way that it was done was done in a very honest way. And I was like 12. And I was like, "Whoa." And I think that there's a lot of work out here now that people are being more intentional about. I don't have any just off my brain. Honestly, let's I'm gonna be very honest again, I watch a lot of wrestling.
Hannah Witton
Cool.
Jimanekia Eborn
I'm not watching a lot of TV as much. I'm watching old shameless, that the show is already off. We're on season six at my house. And I watch wrestling. Because I'm so much in trauma every other way that I'm like, I need a break sometimes.
Hannah Witton
Yeah. No, fair enough. Fair enough. We have some questions from folks on our Instagram for you as well.
Jimanekia Eborn
Love a question.
Hannah Witton
Somebody asked: how the fuck do you support a loved one who thinks they might have assaulted someone? So we're kind of flipping it a bit here. Yeah.
Jimanekia Eborn
I - I think that there - I think people need help. I think people that cause harm, and I think people that are harmed also need help. How do you support someone? First, how are you supporting yourself? Right? People always - we go into, like, "How do we support people?" But like, that's a big thing. How are you supporting yourself? How are you preparing for yourself? Does that mean like, hey, if maybe support looks like you getting them just information of like maybe someone in your area that you can refer them to? And just seeing, you know, what resources are out there - that might be support. Support might be hearing them, that might be support. Support might be telling them that it sounds like they fucked up, that they did harm someone, right? Like, sometimes holding people accountable is helping them. Often. And so I am not from the sugarcoat group. I am a direct human, I try to soften sometimes when needed. But I think truly checking in with this person, and also asking like, "You think you harmed someone? What would you like me to do? Like, how can I support you?" In the same way that if a survivor comes to you, "How can I support you in this moment?" Maybe they're like, "I don't know what to do. Can you help me find something? Can you go with me to this thing?" It might turn out that there is a whole court case, it might be them going to talk to an officer, it might be them being accosted on the internet.
I am - I am someone that feels like people should be supported by their people. If you cause harm to someone, I also think you should be supported. Now, is it the same way? Absolutely not for me. But I do believe that support can look like being held accountable again. And I think psych evals are really good. Right?
Hannah Witton
What's that?
Jimanekia Eborn
Like they're - going to going and talking to someone. Right? There are some people that have harmed, that have been harmed, and then harm other people. Is that the only way that harm happens? No. But I also believe that there are people that have been harmed, assaulted, and whatnot, and that is the only way that they have now known to connect with people.
Hannah Witton
Right.
Jimanekia Eborn
Is by force. And so again, it's an unpopular opinion that I do believe, because I have worked with sexual assault survivors. That was actually my first job, was - not survivors, with those that have harmed people. I worked with juvenile sex offenders for two years. And so people are like, "Oh my God, they've all hurt people." And I'm like, "No, some of them, it's a mental illness." And so maybe, again, how do you help somebody? Maybe you just get them some resources and make sure that you are taking care of yourself, first and foremost. And being honest with them, like, "Hey, this sounds like you did a really shitty thing."
Hannah Witton
Yeah. Yeah. And thinking about like, are they vulnerable too and all of - yeah, all those different things.
Jimanekia Eborn
Yeah.
Hannah Witton
Yeah. Someone else has asked: how do you get intimate after trauma? How do you cope with trusting others after going through trauma?
Jimanekia Eborn
That is a very long question. And I think it varies depending on the person. There is no one way to just get through things. It varies per person. You all have different needs. I think being able to work with someone that can help you figure out your needs, and what that looks like, and what your expansion is going to be, I think is truly helpful. Figuring out what intimacy means to you. As harm happened to you, what does contact mean to you? What does sex mean to you now? Because all of that may have changed.
Hannah Witton
Mmm.
Jimanekia Eborn
And so before we, you know, people are like, "Oh, I want to have sex again." Yeah, cool. I'm a huge fan of sex. I get it, but also I think knowing what do you actually want. And again, this, this just takes me back to spending time with yourself to figure out like, what it looks like. Now for the trust thing. Trust is hard, right? Because 99 - I'm not even gonna say 99. But a lot of the time, people that have harmed us were people we had relationships with.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, people we trusted.
Jimanekia Eborn
Right, like television will tell you it's somebody walking down a dark alley, and blah - and you're like, "What?" When I was raped, I was at home sleeping in my bed. And I woke up and someone I had been with before was in my home. And so I had a relationship with this person. It takes time, because now it's - it often feels like, "I trusted this person, now I can't trust anyone because I don't know."
Hannah Witton
Right. Yeah.
Jimanekia Eborn
And so I think that there is a space and time for you to be honest with the people that have been around you. And just honestly be like, "I don't know who or what I can trust right now. And it's not necessarily about you. It's just where I'm at." And you can start to build it back slowly. Maybe it's, you know, having your friend do something small and they come through and you're like, "Oh, I can trust that they follow through with this thing."
Hannah Witton
Yeah. Yeah. Because trust is something that you build. It's not just like a switch that you turn on and like, "Okay, now I trust you. Now I trust you."
Jimanekia Eborn
It's really not. Yeah. There's - I have friends that are like, "I trust people until." And I was like, "Oh, I don't trust people until I learn and they earn my trust." Right? And there's the back and forth and sometimes I'm like, "What? You just trust people out the gate. That's interesting. That sounds nice." Like, absolutely not. And maybe it is because of that.
Hannah Witton
Yeah. And I guess there's also different levels of trust, like your trust some people with some things and others with other things. I remember somebody was saying to me about, like, the test for them in their heads about if they trust someone is, "Would I trust them to like, look after my pets, if I was away for a weekend?"
Jimanekia Eborn
Well, that's big.
Hannah Witton
That's big, real big.
Jimanekia Eborn
Those are your kids. Those are your children. And I think there's the trial and error of trust, right, like you build it. One thing I will say for folks that want to go back on dates, maybe this is a question. But for me, I also - I teach a dating class for survivors sometimes. And one of the things is, you know, having a conversation with people in open spaces, and seeing how they even respond to questions. Like, before you're intimate with someone, like, "How do you feel about therapy? What do you feel about boundaries? What are your favourite boundaries?" Like...
Hannah Witton
"What are your favourite boundaries?" Oh my god, I'm replacing that with like, what's your favourite colour as just like, just a generic date, I'm getting to know your question. I love it.
Jimanekia Eborn
Yeah, I'm like, what - you know, one of my favourite date questions, feel free to use this, anyone, is: what do you think you shouldn't tell me right now?
Hannah Witton
Oh! Ooh, spicy.
Jimanekia Eborn
Well, it used to be - my therapist was like, "Absolutely not." - it used to be like, "So what's wrong with you?" My therapist was like, "We're not doing that. We're not." And I was like, "I see what you're saying." So what do you think you shouldn't tell me right now? And an upgrade to that. An upgrade would be: "that would make me want to get up and leave right now."
Hannah Witton
Ah, oof. Shivers.
Jimanekia Eborn
And you know what's funny? People are actually really honest. And even if you just give an example -
Hannah Witton
I think ultimately people want to be. Yeah, yeah, and if you offer - offer first as well, then people are more likely to then be honest back with you.
Jimanekia Eborn
Yeah. It's weird. Try it out. Try it out, though, y'all. It's - it's a weird thing and now -
Hannah Witton
Yeah, oh my god, let us know how that goes. I wanna hear. Somebody else has asked: how to deal with triggering shows? Sexual assault seems to be in all of them now.
Jimanekia Eborn
You know, TV is hard, because it's not like we can control it. There's no warnings, it just pops up. How do you deal with triggering shows? Knowing how to manage your own triggers? Right. And as I said earlier, we can be grounded by any of our five senses. And we can be triggered by any of our five senses. So what is that? Sight. Sound. So if sight and sound are activating you, switch to something else to help ground you. Maybe there's a touch, maybe there's a weighted blanket, maybe there's something you can drink that can distract you. Maybe there's a scent, right? And so I always like to implore people to build like a little kit, like a little safety kit. And I've had people do them in like mint boxes, just like something for each of their senses to just like, allow them to ground. Like for sound if you're like, I have - I have certain playlists, like music playlists, that helped me get back into my body. There's certain - I have a favourite candy that allows me to like distract. There's certain smells that bring me back. So I would like to introduce you to creating your own little kit. Something that you love from each of your senses that can allow you to get back into your body, and then turn the channel.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, just switch it up.
Jimanekia Eborn
Yeah. Which I mean, it's unfortunate. I'm not one of those people that's like, "Sit through it." Like, why?
Hannah Witton
You can always come back to it. But, yeah, having that pause again.
Jimanekia Eborn
Why? So here's the thing. There's many ways in life we can suffer. And you probably will, if we're just being honest. Why put yourself through it if you can support yourself at that moment?
Hannah Witton
Yeah, no, exactly. This is kind of similar to the other question, but slightly different. And I'm interested to hear your take on it. Someone asked: how to feel confident in sex again after sexual assault. Which I think is a huge thing. That confidence.
Jimanekia Eborn
Yeah. I think you should have fun in sex, and including fun, you should laugh. There should be laughter during sex and conversation. Yes, sex is serious. But also it should be enjoyable. Also, one of my secret tricks is if you're laughing, you're breathing. If you're breathing, you're present. You can't laugh and hold your breath. And so -
Hannah Witton
No. Have I tried? No.
Jimanekia Eborn
You can't. Like, you're like, "Okay, cool. We're back." And so I think confidence takes time. And what is confidence? Because what I might think is confident might not be the same thing for you. And so what does that mean to you? What does that mean? Does that mean how you walk into a bedroom? Is it mean, how you show up? Does it mean that you pull out this new cool position? And you nail it? I don't know. And so this is where I refer back to the person who asked the question, what does that mean to you?
Hannah Witton
Yeah, because we have this kind of like image in our heads of like what a sexually confident person looks like. But that's - kind of giving that performance or trying to replicate that actually might not be what makes most people feel confident in the bedroom.
Jimanekia Eborn
Yeah, also take pressure off yourself. Someone's excited to just fornicate with you, right? Like -
Hannah Witton
Oh, we busted out the word fornicate. I love it.
Jimanekia Eborn
I love fornicate. It's one of my favourite f words.
Hannah Witton
Excellent.
Jimanekia Eborn
Like, that person is 99.9% just excited to be there. You've already shown up, like, it's not going to look like a porn film. It's not going to look like something you saw on HBO. Because again, that's not real. What feels good for you? Sometimes I go to have sex and I'm like, "This is not it." And then the person's like, "You look so amazing. You look so great." I'm like, Oh my god! Well, I didn't know. Oh, thank you." Right? Maybe your confidence is affirmations. Maybe you need someone - maybe that's that's your thing. Maybe you need to be affirmed. And that gives you confidence. Maybe you're in control
Hannah Witton
And there's nothing wrong with needing that externally in order to like feel a certain way.
Jimanekia Eborn
No, let's stop shaming people for that. Sometimes we need someone to go "Hey, you're doing great." "Thanks!"
Hannah Witton
And relax.
Jimanekia Eborn
Yeah!
Hannah Witton
Like, "Oh, okay, thank you."
Jimanekia Eborn
"Thank you so much, I thought I was screwing this up But you're into it? I'm into it. Great." Yeah, I think taking the pressure off is really helpful.
Hannah Witton
Amazing. Well, Jimanekia, been great. This has been great. Thank you so much. Where can people find more about you and like all of the stuff you do? And I know you also have a nonprofit so like, please like plug all of your things.
Jimanekia Eborn
All the things, yeah. traumaqueen.love, you can find out what I'm up to. I also do one to one work with survivors, all genders, all identities, and I do have spots open. We do have support groups for survivors. My nonprofit is tendingthegarden.love, where we do focus on those that have been marginalised, sexual assault survivors and like creating content and whatnot, which we are restructuring. Centuary.co if you want to find out about intimacy coordination, we are restructuring that as well. It's the season. We're restructuring things to make it better for you. But you can sign up for all of the newsletters and social media. Jimanekia, there is only one of me in the world. Blessed be.
Hannah Witton
Incredible.
Jimanekia Eborn
And on social media. So yeah, that's where I'm at on the interwebs
Hannah Witton
Amazing. Thank you so much. And thank you all so much for listening. Bye!