Sex Tech, Toys and Accessibility with Jules Margo | Transcript
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Jules Margo
Adam showed me a letter that we had from a customer who was a 24 year old paraplegic. He had been injured when he was, I think 18 or 19. He had not been able to ejaculate voluntarily since he'd had his accident, he hadn't been able to masturbate, and he'd been able to achieve an orgasm with Pulse. And he said that that experience gave him back a sense of joy, and hope, and self esteem in his life, that he had thought had been lost to him after his accident.
Hannah Witton
Welcome to Doing It with me Hannah Witton, where we talk all things sex, relationships, dating and our bodies. Hi, and welcome back to Doing It. It's no secret that I am very fond of sex toys, in terms of what they do for me as an individual sexual person, in terms of exploration, pleasure, and different sensations. But I am also fascinated by the sex tech industry in general. In this episode, I got to speak with Jules Margo, who is the co-founder and COO of Hot Octopus, a sex toy company, that champions inclusivity and accessibility when it comes to their products and marketing. We had a good nerd out about sex toy development and the technology that goes into making sex toys, and all of the new and exciting things happening in the industry. We talked about accessibility and how their first sex toy was based on a medical research for people with spinal cord injuries to ejaculate so that they could provide sperm for IVF. The intersection of disability and sexuality is something I've been learning a lot about over the last few years, and I really wants to bring these conversations to as many people as possible. And technology and sex toys is a really important part of that conversation. We also discussed how COVID and lockdown has affected sales and sex toys, long distance relationships, and people getting into solo kink. And we answered questions from our followers on Instagram, recommending toys, how to clean toys, and cheap versus expensive toys. As usual, you can find more info and links to everything we talked about in this episode in the show notes over DoingItPodcast.co.uk. And please let us know what you think over on our Twitter or Instagram @DoingItPodcast. Here is my chat with Jules Margo. So hello, welcome, Jules. Thank you so much for being here.
Jules Margo
Very happy to be here.
Hannah Witton
So I guess first off, who are, what is Hot Octopus? And like, how and why did it come to be?
Jules Margo
So, Hot Octopus is a UK based business that I run with my business partner Adam. We are a pleasure products brand. But we came to be in a very weird way, to be honest, my business partner, maybe all sex toy companies come from a weird idea. My business partner Adam, he's one of my oldest friends from childhood, had the idea for a penis toy about a decade ago, before there were vibrating penis toys on the market. And he approached me with this idea that he'd had to create the world's first vibrator. And it was an amazing idea. He come across some research from the medical disability space which had identified the precise frequency and amplitude required to produce an involuntary ejaculation, which sounds crazy but there was medical research on this that had been done to help men who'd had spinal cord injury and wanted to go through IVF, it was it was developed as a means to harvest sperm basically.
Hannah Witton
Wow, that is fascinating. Oh yeah, I was gonna ask like, what's involuntary ejaculation and why is it used?
Jules Margo
You wouldn't necessarily want one for the experience.
Hannah Witton
But if you need to get access to the sperm.
Jules Margo
Exactly. sperm is healthier when it has been through the ejaculation process rather than when it's harvested directly from the testicles.
Hannah Witton
Oh I didn't know that, that's fascinating
Jules Margo
The things that we know about sperm and penises. This research has informed the development of a medical device which was on the market a decade ago. But it was only, it was a product that could only be used in a clinical setting and applied by a nurse to a penis, a horrific thing. But the idea is there, for us to use this research to develop, you know, the most powerful and effective penis toy basically, that was what we set out to do. And we ended up actually licencing the mechanism that was used in this medical device just so that we get, which is not actually the, the tech that went into our first product Pulse, but it informed and it allowed us to really get up close to that tech and work out what we could do, to develop something that was affordable and mass market. And that was our first product Pulse. So we were originally a penis toy company. And then from there, we developed couples toys, and vulva toys, but we kind of, our brand has really been informed by the fact that we always had quite a following from people with disabilities, because our products worked for them, having that medical kind of background.
Hannah Witton
That's really interesting, because I wondered where because when I have heard about Hot Octopus, disability and accessibility stuff has always come up. And so I wondered, yeah, like, what was that where it began? Or is that just kind of like something that you, after making some sex toys, realised that that was important? Like how has that like continued to be a part of how you develop new products?
Jules Margo
I mean it is so incredibly important to us, and accessibility in the round is very, very important to us personally, to Adam and I personally and the members of our team, many of who have disabilities, are trans, non binary, we're a very diverse group of people. But I think initially, the brand kind of evolved from the fact that our products were accessible because they were based on this medical tech. So we continue to get testimonials from customers who, you know, had felt that maybe, typically, sex toys were not accessible to them because of their disability or their medical issue or because they were not your typical body. And so it became increasingly clear to us that there was a gap in the market and a real need for products that could be used by everybody. And that became our kind of mantra, pleasure for everybody. Because actually, a lot of sex toys are not accessible at all, when you really get down to it, but just not.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, and it's lots of different elements of it as well. Because if, I know that, for some of my followers, one of the things that they often ask me about sex toys is the buttons, and how accessible like changing the settings, and turning on an off is, which, as someone who doesn't have any issues of my hands, and would never have thought of that. But yeah, and then when I think about it, I'm like, oh, actually, yes, some of these buttons are, like really difficult to see where they are, sometimes. And also, like, really hidden, like they're like, almost internal. And you have to like, really, really press.
Jules Margo
Yeah, I mean, we've had issues with our own buttons in the past, to be honest. But one of the things that we've always done and again, it's one of the things that's informed our direction is we've always sought out a lot of customer feedback, because it is, it's so helpful, if you take it in the right way. We've always had this view that, you know, praise is sort of nice, but useless. Criticism is really helpful. And if you take that view, actually, it really, really helps. And so we've always had this interest in in making our products accessible to people with disabilities. Several years ago, we were contacted by a woman called Joan Price, who's a senior sex therapist and writer in the US. And she wrote to us and said, you know, I'd love to work with you guys, but your site is really not inclusive of older people. You've got all these images of young, young, pretty people as a massive turnoff for anyone who's older, and you're missing a huge audience. Anyway, she completely ripped us apart, and I ended up having a conversation with her, and I thought she was actually completely right, and her feedback was really useful. And she, we ended up hiring her as our senior sex consultant, and senior sex spokesperson. And from there, we kind of transformed the site really, and, you know, obviously we consult with her on our product development as well, because we realised that that again, is an underserved market, older people. In fact, when you really look at it, which obviously we have, 75% of the entire market are people who are, you know, have some sort of disabilitym or some sort of sexual dysfunction, erectile dysfunction or erection problem, or they're over 60, 55 or 60? You know,
Hannah Witton
Oh my goodness, really?
Jules Margo
Yeah, it's the majority of the market is not your young, straight, white, you know, whatever, person, that's the thing. Yeah. So by, by focusing our brand on everybody who was not considered, you know, your typical sex toy user, you know, we've actually hit the mass market really.
Hannah Witton
That's so interesting to me, because in my bubble as well, like, all of the marketing I see around sex toys is so, your right is like young, slim, white, and female, a lot of often the answer as well. And that actually brings me on to a question that I like had, which is that, like, when I do look at your like, website, and I like social medias and stuff, you do have a very different branding to what I'm used to seeing, from sex toy companies, like when I think of like, modern sex toy companies, it's like, you've got your purples and your teals, and white, and maybe pink, and yours is very, like dark, it's like, darker, and I wondered and I just, I just find it really interesting. And I'm like, I wondered why and like, what the, like, intention behind those, because there's always intention.
Jules Margo
I mean, our brand, our brand has a real meaning and identity to us. And it always did. Adam and I created the brand, yeah, it was around a decade ago, together in our office, in Camden Town, London, and the brand really represents I suppose, us and our approach to making sex toys and what we want the brand to be about. So, you know, we want it to be fun, but edgy. And, you know, it sort of speaks to a particular lifestyle, I suppose a particular approach to life. So we are not about the, you know, you know, nice and, you know, I suppose a lot of, not nice, we are nice, a lot of sex toys, sex toy brand, I suppose focused on, you know, this idea that sex is part of health and wellbeing, which obviously, is and sex toys, absolutely should be seen as health, lifestyle wellbeing tools, fine, they are. They're also sexy, and edgy and naughty, and a bit daring, and, you know, the kinds of how we want people to feel when we use our products is kind of like a bit like that, rather than they're using like a really great toothbrush. And that's why we, that is why we've defined our brand a little bit differently, I suppose, really, we really mean it, the way that we show our brand is really how we want people to experience our products. Again, I think they do, I think our customers, you know, can be quite different, for example to like, say a Love Honey customer, you know, they are people who want to spend, our customers or people generally who want to spend a little bit more money on a really high quality, really cool bit of tech. And they will use over and over again. And we get a lot of repeat customers, we have a lot of brand loyalty really, and I think that is because we have built up that identity. And because that identity really, it means something, it's not a marketing tool, it never has been. Now are social, we have these internal debates constantly about marketing versus the brand story, because we have, you know, there is this story that we are trying to tell with a brand, about inclusivity, you know, about how we look at other people, and how, what we consider sexy to be. You know, we saw a survey where something like, even 93% of men, of straight men said that they would not date a woman with, with a disability. That says everything about how as a society, we view people with disabilities, and you know, or health conditions and diseases. You know, why is that not sexy? My God, I mean, you know, you should see some of the images for our new disability site. I mean, you know, you it's ridiculous to think that if your body doesn't look like an expected normal body, it's not sexy. I mean, yeah
Hannah Witton
And that's just making such a blanket assumption about disabled people as well.
Jules Margo
Yeah, and it's also really horrible, and really excluding, and really unfair, and really uninformed, and under educated, we absolutely hate stuff like that. It's the same thing about older people and older bodies. But anyway, so really, our imagery is trying to tell that story. And that's what we're trying to do with our social channels, as well as trying to sell sex toys, I suppose. And that's why our blog is so important to us. We put so much content out there. You know, and not because really, we're trying to sell toys that obviously we'd love to sell more toys, but generally, we don't. But, you know, the reason is because it's so important to the mission element of what we're trying to do and of the band is so important to us and always has been
Hannah Witton
Was sexuality and or sex toys, something that you were passionate about or working in before? Like, what when Adam came to you with, with the idea of what like, what was it that made you go, oh 100%, I'm in?
Jules Margo
I think yes, I've always I've always seen sex and sexuality as being a really, really fundamental part of happiness, and, and living a good life, I suppose. I mean, my mum is a sex therapist. So I definitely grew up with a very open attitude to, to sex. And I see, I mean, my mum's always seen sex as completely fundamental to enjoying life and having a good life, and, you know, and the association with mental health and wellbeing. I mean, recently, a lot of people asked me about the relationship between sex and mental health because of the massive growth in sales of sex toys during this pandemic. You know, people have bought food, toilet paper, and sex toys, basically. And those, but you know, it's funny, but those are the things that yeah, this is what makes us fundamentally human, right? We need these things, we need the physical touch, we need sexual pleasure, we need it. And again, that's why I'm passionate about the disability and sex piece, because, you know, for some people is much harder than others to experience sexual pleasure, by themselves or with a partner and our products can help with that and that's really important to us. But yeah, I've always had that interest in that openness. I think when Adam approached me, I also just thought it was an amazing idea. The idea for the world's press guy vibrater, back in the day when there really weren't that vibrators just seemed like an obvious really interesting thing. And, you know, our in our first mission, when we first you know, put a toe into this market was about destigmatising male masturbation because we've felt that men had been, you know, if you think about where attitudes were a decade ago, actually, male masturbation was seen as really taboo and kind of gross. Not taboo in the sense that everyone didn't do it it, but it's kind of seen as dirty and disgusting. Whereas there was a bit of a kind of changing attitudes, the idea of female masturbation is something being really, really beautiful and feminine.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, it's such a weird one, and we actually had a question on our Instagram about why do you think there's a stigma about male sex toys, but you're right, because when I was in school, it was very normal for all of the boys to be talking about masturbation. But if the girls did, that was gross and weird. But then as I've grown up, and I've seen, like the culture shifting, like, it's still seen as very, like normal for any gender to masturbate now, at least in my circles, but the use of sex toys is like, oh, that's empowering for women, but for men, it's like, creepy and weird and desperate. Like, those are the kind of like the assumptions. It's so strange.
Jules Margo
I just, I actually think that attitudes to masturbation are, are still you know, there's still a stigma about it. And while, on the surface, there's kind of become a bit of a trend, you know, around sort of admitting that you masturbate, and masturbation is okay. There's this sort of idea that female masturbation is sort of gentler, and there's something really animal and disgusting about men. And really, that's because fundamentally, we are still really weird and embarrassed about it. And we don't see it as a normal part of having a body, and being able to experience that side of your body. It's interesting,
Hannah Witton
And that's why so much of the marketing around it is kind of like cloaked in the more palatable wellness.
Jules Margo
Yeah, or, or massage, you know, it's massage devices. And it's perfectly fine to experience pleasure from putting a massage device on your shoulder. But, you know, lets not talk about using it anywhere, anywhere naughty. No. I mean, it's ridiculous. My kids school, some of the parents at my kids school actually asked me whether I would give a talk to just the parents about how you talk about sexual pleasure with your kids. I mean, my kids are quite, at quite a progressive primary school. I would not think that that's the norm. But I thought that was really fascinating. And then I thought, my God, you never talk about pleasure with with children. Like you just don't I mean, in sex education at school, they've they're just changing so that in secondary schools, they will include pleasure in sex education, just, 2020. Yeah, I find that amazing. I mean, it's good. It's good. Yeah, but this is where these attitude come from. It's it's only recently that you're even allowed to think that you get pleasure from sex. I mean it really is, relatively recently. I mean, like, you know, think about the 50s.
Hannah Witton
Yeah. It's just the idea of like, well, why would you have sex if it's not for reproduction, and then you realise that you've missed out this entire component of someone's sex education you're like, oh because they feel like oh,
Jules Margo
It's a really important, you know, it's a really important part of a relationship with another person, it's really important part of, you know, of your self esteem and relationship to yourself. I mean, when, I actually used to work in the charity sector, so although Adam and I set up Hot Octopus together, Adam ran it on his own for several years. And when we were talking about me coming on board full time, I remember feeling really conflicted about it, because I was so used to having a really worthy job that I could talk about dinner parties, running family charities, that's what I did, I ran family charities and health charities. And then Adam showed me a letter that we had an email that we'd had from a customer who was a 24 year old paraplegic. He'd been injured when he was I think, 18, or 19. And we'd given him a Pulse, an early Pulse product,
Hannah Witton
And the Pulse is the one that you can use, you don't have to have an erect penis, you can like start from flacid, right?
Jules Margo
Yes, exactly. And so for people disabilities, it's quite useful because a carer can help you to put it in place, but it can be used hands free.
Hannah Witton
Yeah,
Jules Margo
And you can kind of have some privacy,and that's how a lot of customers have used the product. And he wrote in this email that he had not been able to ejaculate voluntarily, since he'd had his accident, he hadn't been able to masturbate. And he'd been able to achieve an orgasm with Pulse. And he said that that experience gave him back a sense of joy and hope, and self esteem in his life, that he thought was lost to him after his accident. You can hear, I can still quote that from years ago, because that had such an impact on me. Because, you know, it's easy when you, you know, are able bodied and you know, not, you know, normal, typical bodied, you know, to forget that not everybody can give themselves in that way.
Hannah Witton
I mean, I only, yeah, I have like the briefest of experiences related to that, like after my surgery, I couldn't orgasm, because, so I had abdominal surgery, and because my abdomen had been sliced open, I couldn't tense, I couldn't like actually, I didn't, the muscles weren't there in order to physically be able to have an orgasm. And I remember just being like, oh my God, like, I've lost this thing that is so like, important to me. But luckily, it came back as like, as I was recovering from surgery and my, my body got stronger. But yeah, I that's, you know, that was the briefest of experiences, but I can see how like, important it is to people for sure.
Jules Margo
I mean, you know, there is research that shows that sexual pleasure is related to how long you live.
Hannah Witton
Oh, I don't know about that, yeah.
Jules Margo
So a complete absence of being able to experience kind of voluntary sexual pleasure is related to dying younger. And this is medical research data. So there was actually a really long literature and medical knowledge of how important orgasms and masturbation is to wellbeing, self esteem,
Hannah Witton
Is that because it's like a stress relief.
Jules Margo
I think, I think it's more than than just a stress relief. I think it's just, it's incredibly important to our mental health, and physical health, to be able to get pleasure from our bodies, basically. And yeah, when you don't i don't you know, what, I don't think anybody has cared enough to properly get into the whys of it, from a medical research perspective. Yeah, because we've looked into this quite a lot to try and kind of understand the drivers, but it's really critical to our wellbeing, I mean, our you know, our health in every, every domain, to be able to have orgasms, or experience physical pleasure. And this is knon medically is medically understood. And yet, that hasn't really filtered through into the way that we talk about sex, masturbation, sexual pleasure, the way we talk about it to children and help themm educate them, the way we talk to young people with disabilities or their carers, or, or old or the way that we think about older people who don't get touched in any way physically. So, you know, I still see this though, you know,
Hannah Witton
We think of it it's like this indulgent thing, rather than something that we have a right to
Jules Margo
Yeah, or not, or that's essential as essential to eating but we don't, we don't think about it as an essential part of being a human or essential part of our body.
Hannah Witton
So I had a few questions on Instagram that get a bit specific, but I thought I'd throw them your way and see what you think. Someone asked, my partner and I are both wheelchair users, no use of legs, best toys to climax together. Do you have any recommendations?
Jules Margo
So I only, I would say any kind of finger vibe that sort of versatile would be good. We have one in our range called AMO. But I do
Hannah Witton
Is that the one that has like the hook, so you can like put it on your finger, like put it around your
Jules Margo
That's DiGiT. I think AMO's probably more more sort of flexible. I would say that any wand, any long wand, is very useful for for somebody who needs that kind of flexibility. So we do recommend the Doxy. That's, that's we've had some good feedback for wheelchair users about the Doxy.
Hannah Witton
And then also, this is a just important all rounder, best way to clean your sex toys?
Jules Margo
Erm, obviously depends on the product, and whether it can be immersed in water. But toy cleaner, toy cleaning fluid and wipes is a pretty safe bet.
Hannah Witton
Yeah. Just in case you can't submerge your product in water.
Jules Margo
Yeah
Hannah Witton
Yeah. And if you're out of that, quick rinse under some water and soap maybe?
Jules Margo
Yeah soap and water
Hannah Witton
Nailed it. Someone asked, and this one actually comes up a lot. Can you get less expensive, but still good quality toys? Or do I just have to save?
Jules Margo
Look, I mean, you can get, you can get pretty good vibrators that are relatively cheap, but they're not going to be as effective as the more expensive ones cuz you're paying for tech, it's like any tech device, it is worth spending the money. And I mean, I must have tried every toy on the market by now, because the manufacturers always share toys with each other. And there was no question that, you know, the manufacturers that have invested the time and effort and you know, in better quality, it makes a difference.
Hannah Witton
I guess they probably last longer as well.
Jules Margo
I think we all know that, anyone who's ever owned a sex toy knows that, that the better quality products do last longer, and they'd be more thought through and more thoughtfully designed. So in my mind, I think there there are 1000s of throwaway, affordable toys. But it's worth investing in the, in the quality. I mean, that's why in our main range, our products are slightly more expensive, because we just want to put good quality tech out there.
Hannah Witton
I guess like if it's your first toy, and you're just trying out and you're not like ready to, you know, invest in one, when you're in that space of like figuring out, do, will I even like this? Then you could go for one of the cheaper ones, but just know that it's maybe not gonna last as long, and you will have to maybe,potentially if you did really, really like it, you might have to replace it at some point.
Jules Margo
Sure, I mean, but I think even you know, even people buying their first product, it really comes down to what kind of power you need. And you're never really going to get amazing power from from a cheaper products, you're just not going to have the quality of motor in it.
Hannah Witton
I always I always find myself hanging out in the lowest settings. Some of these toys I'm like, oh my goodness, like I could never get all the way up there. I'm just like, yeah, I'll just I'll just hang out in like 1 to 3, that kind of zone.
Jules Margo
I am not a power. We call it power queens. I'm not a power queen. I find the Doxy fairly challenging.
Hannah Witton
Somebody asked, what is the most popular toy each year, or just have you noticed any general trends in the sex toy industry like over the last 10 years since you've been in it?
Jules Margo
Oh, interesting. Yes, definitely. I think there has been a real trend away from just traditional vibrators, to create more power. So there was a phase when mains-powered toys became very popular, which I thought was quite weird. We seem to have moved away from that. So in the vulva toy market, the trend has really been towards kind of products that suck the clitoris, rather than vibrate the clitoris. So Womaniser is obviously the best known variety, but now everybody has brought out their version of that. And the women, womeniser product is actually based on a fish tank filter. The sucking, the sucking
Hannah Witton
Oh, I didn't know that, amazing. I love those toys
Jules Margo
Yeah. I think they're brilliant, anything that's kind of inventive, and different is great. But obviously there are now a lot of products that mimic that same action, with different tech, but mimic that same action so that that is still an ongoing trend. But I think, and there's definitely been much more investment by manufacturers in penis toys, I mean, there are so many different vibrating penis toys now, which is great, and we always welcome that challenge and innovation. Because it's a really it's a really underserved market, and we just need more of them. But yeah, it's interesting that some of the classic toy designs when we were looking at this the other day in vulva toys, the classic designs like the rabbit, vibrators are still really big sellers. And we will look at this because
Hannah Witton
And I think they're just not very culturally known as well. But when you think of it, like the rabbit, like people kind of know what you're talking about.
Jules Margo
Totally. And I think they feel it's quite obvious how you use them. I mean, some of them, some of the newer toys for a new, you know, a newbie to buying sex toys can be a little bit confusing, like, well, what goes where? And how do you use it? You know, whereas that is kind of very obvious. And it feels kind of safe and cute, as opposed to edgy and scary.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, and I guess it's been normalised a bit more than some others. So you might feel like less embarrassed, potentially, buying one.
Yeah, I guess. So. I think right now, G spot vibrators are very popular seem to be very popular.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, I think I definitely seen a lot more. And like, I know that the rabbit is meant to be like both. But I've seen a lot more companies trying to basically reinvent the rabbit. So basically do G spot and clitoral, at the same time.
Jules Margo
But it's just very difficult. I mean, again, I I don't see how a rabbit, which is exactly what we were talking about, I don't see how a rabbit vibrator can be a G spot stimulator. Because if you're moving it, in and out to simulate the G spot, how are you
Hannah Witton
It's going to move off the clit
Jules Margo
Yeah, so, this is an exactly, a key development challenge for us right now is how can you create a really good G spot vibe, but also simulates the clitoris, at the same time.
Hannah Witton
So like one that you would manually move in and out, because I've seen some that like you don't move it once you put it inside you and that is like a mechanical bit that moves inside. So then you can have both.
Jules Margo
Yeah, absolutely you can have both. But then the G spot is in different positions, you know, in different positions for different people. So that has its own challenges, because you kind of have to get it right.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, and that actually brings me on to someone else's question, which is, what is the process of developing sex toys? A bit of the behind the scenes? How does it all come together?
Jules Margo
Okay, well, I mean, it's different every time. But generally, we will have identified I mean, we always have a really long pipeline, product development pipeline that might have like 15 different product ideas on it, at any one time. And you know, from one development process, you will spin with other ideas that you kind of park for later. So you always have quite a long pipeline, we usually would start with discussions within the team about what kind of product we think we should do next. And obviously, for us, you know, we attend a lot of pre COVID trade show, so you can kind of see what the trends are, and what other manufacturers are doing, which is often kind of a great way to position your ideas in the market. It is a very, very close industry, everybody talks to each other all the time, it's not kind of a competitive place. The pleasure products industry, because there aren't that many manufacturers so, you know, it's small. So that's often kind of quite a good kind of inspiration. We usually do quite an early focus group with members of our affiliates, or particular reviewers that we've worked with in the past, who we consider to be kind of really knowledgeable and expert and get their views. So once we've decided on what, that's the kind of earliest stage of how we would decide what product to develop next, and then Adam tends to lead the product development process, and we work with a design company in London, and they will often help us with our very, very early designs, and then we work directly with our factory. I mean, there are some products where we don't need to work with, with designers, we work straight directly with the factory, because it's so straightforward. But generally, that's not typical, you know our products tend to require, you know, like bespoke motors, and, you know, it can take a long time. I mean, some of our products can take years before they're ready for market just because we're trying to develop new technologies to create the effects that we need.
Hannah Witton
Do you get to test any of them out?
Jules Margo
Of course, I test all of them out. Yeah.
Hannah Witton
Love it. At what point you come up with the names. That's one thing I'm always really fascinated by is like names of sex toys.
Jules Margo
I mean the name is the absolute worst bit for us, I mean particulaly for Adam. You know, he's often up all night stressing about a name. And sometimes you fall in love with a name and then you find out, you know, when you get to search phase, you find out that there's another random sex toy, somewhere on the other side of the world, that doesn't market anywhere that's got a trademark name and you can't use it and devastating. It varies, there are some products in development that are already named is the name was really obvious. And then sometimes we come up with a name only weeks before packaging. Sometimes we've designed packaging with no name, and only come up with a name a couple of weeks before we launched, which absolutely drives everybody crazy. But it's really difficult, it can be really hard to get the right name,
Hannah Witton
Honestly, yeah, naming things, nightmare.
It's the worst. It is the absolute worst. And we have got products on the market that have awful names, that we massively regret. But we haven't done a thing about it. So, yeah
Hannah Witton
Can you share any, or do you not want to
Jules Margo
Pocket Pulse.
Hannah Witton
Oh, okay
Jules Margo
Why did we name it Pocket Pulse, it just, it's so embarrasing
Hannah Witton
Is it a smaller version of the Pulse?
Jules Margo
I think initially, you know what happened, it was a working title because we had the Pulse, and it was the next penis toy that we brought out after Pulse. And it is a smaller version, but it's got different technology, and it's used differently. So it looks a little bit like it. But there's no excuse for it. But we called it pocket parts, because I think when we were first thinking of it, we wanted to come up with a smaller, cheaper version. But yeah, even so, it was wrong. It was just wrong. I think it's affected our ability to market it and it's affected its performance on the market. And we sometimes think about renaming it, but we don't want to waste aa good name.
Hannah Witton
Oh, I say just in case it wouldn't take off anyway.
Jules Margo
Yeah.
Hannah Witton
Ah well, you live and learn
Jules Margo
Yeah. But then we've had amazing names for products that then haven't gone on to sell very well, and then you feel that you've wasted a name, like Queen Bee. That was an amazing name for vulva toy. But
Hannah Witton
I do like that.
Jules Margo
I know. Anyway, the product itself wasn't a big hit.
Hannah Witton
I wanted to ask if you have any future predictions for like the sex toy industry in general, but also like sex tech, as well.
Jules Margo
I think the main development that's going to continue is interactive toys. I think they were particularly pushed by the whole lockdown experience. App controlled, interactive devices, I think it's just gonna be, I think soon, there will not be many sex toys, I mean, you know, higher cost sex toys that do not have a chip in them, that means that they can be controlled by an app or controlled by someone's device.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, because most of the ones that I've used that have an app, it's done by Bluetooth. So you still have to be close by. So are there ones out there where like, you can control from really far away, like in another country, like if you're in a long distance relationship or something.
Jules Margo
Yes. There are already some. We've got one coming out, Pulse Interactive. Although the development process has been quite painful. We've got one coming out in the new year that will allow that. And there are others as well. But yes, I think that is the next big thing that will change the face of sex toys, to be honest.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, that's yeah, that I've always wanted. Like, I remember when I was at uni, and this was like, I don't know, five or six years ago, playing around with, like remote control toys, and like going online and trying to find some, and it being very limited in what I could find.
Jules Margo
Oh, yes. I mean, it's only very recently that even remote controls work well with toys. Because you have to be in the right line of, yeah, no, I agree.
Hannah Witton
Me and Me and a friend, as a big joke, decided to purchase like remote control toys for ourselves, and then put them in our underwear for a night out. And we swapped remotes, so that we could control each other's. However, because we bought the same brand toy, you click your remote and it set both of them off. So that was an interesting evening. But yeah, that was like literally the only thing that we could find. And now I'm just like, oh, remote control toys, app controlled toys. Like they're everywhere. We didn't, we wouldn't have had to go through that.
Jules Margo
But again, I think you know now, it's kind of almost expected that a higher end product will have a remote control. That's what we've seen.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, I would agree. Somebody asked, suggestions for someone looking to spice up their solo sex routine. A lot of people having solo sex in the moment.
Jules Margo
Is this a penis owner, vulva owner.
Hannah Witton
Oh, I don't actually know. So maybe we could do an answer for both.
Jules Margo
Well I would still definitely recommend our product Pulse for penis owners. I mean it is a completely, you know now is a perfect time to experiment with your masturbation, right. And the thing about penis toys is it's often, you know when you're talking about a product like Pulse, which can be used as a static masturbator as in you don't move it, you hold it against, it's a completely different experience of masturbation because you're not doing the sort of typical up and down motion. So if you haven't tried a product like that and there are other, there other products out there similar to Pulse, that are a bit cheaper, Love Honey have got a new product for example. It's It's It's different, but the idea is kind of similar. Now is definitely the time to try that because it is different. And it takes a bit of time to get used to that way of stimulating yourself, because it's so different. But, but amazing. Definitely worth trying. I definitely say that over a kind of wank sleeve type product, which you know, it just which just enhances manual masturbation,
Hannah Witton
Yeah, almost like just covering your hand in lube and having a posh wank. Yeah, and thought about the fact that like, it's actually a completely different sensation.
Jules Margo
It's completely different. And not everybody. I mean, not everybody gets it first time. Like, we often hear from customers who you know, need, you know, they just need to hear that it can take a bit of practice to get used to the sensation because it's totally different. But it's, you know, it's different and amazing. And that makes it worthwhile. I think for Vulva owners and women, if you have used vibrators, and you're quite familiar with vibrators, I would definitely try something with a bit of different tech in it. For example, a Womaniser.
Hannah Witton
They're like the air pulse technology toys?
Jules Margo
Yeah, the Pulse Air technology, or womaniser, or the satisfier version? Just because again, it's just it's a different, it's a different sensation, different experience.
Hannah Witton
Yeah. And that's all the spicing up. Yeah, because it's just like, there's so much that is on offer, in terms of like, oh, hang on, I didn't realise that this was a thing that could be done to my body as well. It's like, you're not limited with your actual body parts, because that's all really fun, as well. But then there's just like this whole other world with like the tech that is out there with sex toys.
Jules Margo
There is. But speaking of that, I mean, there's also, we haven't really spoken about kink. But one of the things that we found during the lockdown to be the most fascinating aspect of people, is this massive growing interest in kink. So we saw this among our own customers, because we do lots of customer surveys and our customers, we had over 80% of our customers suddenly saying that they would be interested in you know, they were interested in kink products. And then Anne Summer's brought out a survey saying something similar that three out of four people have a kink, and want to kind of explore this. And I don't know whether this is driven by the experience of lockdown, and people just thinking about their bodies and their sexuality a bit more. But anyway, we have launched a kink site recently, selling some kink products, and some content, there is some content on our blog about solo kink, because it isn't just something to do with the partner. You know, a lot of
Hannah Witton
That's so interesting, I hadn't even thought about solo kink before. Check that out.
Jules Margo
Yeah. But you know, for example, you can use nipple clamps on yourself.
Hannah Witton
Yeah
Jules Margo
You know, you can wear a blindfold while touching yourself. There's lots to do. And of course, kink isn't, you know, isn't it's not just about roleplay and fantasy, it's also about creating different and experiencing different sensations in your body by using different tools and techniques. So, you know, that's, if you've if you've never tried that, that's definitely one to think about.
Hannah Witton
Oh, that's great. Thank you for sharing that. And thank you so much for chatting with me. This has been so insightful and interesting. I love nerding out about sex toys and tech. Where where can people find you online, and also Hot Octopus.
Jules Margo
HotOctopus.com is our website. And we're on all social platforms as well. So,
Hannah Witton
Lovely. Thank you so much. And thank you folks for listening. Bye. Thank you so much for listening to Doing It. If you enjoyed it, I would really appreciate it. If you left a rating and a review. You can find show notes at DoingItPodcast.co.uk and do go follow us on social media and I'll catch you in the next episode. Bye.
Hannah Witton
This was a global original podcast