Battling Expectations, Love and Breakups with Laura Whitmore | Transcript
Read the shownotes here!
Laura Whitmore
Like, why do you always have to, like, you know, say something about everything? Why can't you just be like, you know, like, our parents' generation and just get on with it. And I'm like, the women in Ireland, like, had babies taken away from them, like, they didn't have any, like, control over their bodies, like that is not the world that I want to live in. Do you know? And I think it's okay to move forward and speak up about things. And it's very important because I hope that, you know, when I have a child in this world, and then the next generation, the next generation, that it'll be a little bit better than than it is now.
Hannah Witton
Welcome to Doing It with me Hannah Witton, where we talk all things sex, relationships, dating and our bodies. Hello, welcome to Doing It. I'm trying to ignore the fact it's already March, feel free to join me in the denial that time is in fact passing. But for now, it's time for another good old natter about relationships. And today, I am joined by the fabulous Laura Whitmore, broadcaster, presenter and now author of her new book, No One Can Change Your Life Except for You. Which I can't say without getting the Wilson Phillips song stuck in my head. So as soon as I'm done recording this intro, I am going to be playing it and dancing around and singing along to it. Anyway, let's get back on track, shall we?
In this episode, Laura and I talk about her experience being taught sex ed by a nun in a Catholic school in Ireland. The stories were told and the pressures around what you should be doing when it comes to your sex life, your pregnancy, or your parenting style. We chat about Laura's experiences being pregnant in lockdown, what it's like for her being a woman in the public eye, and we talk all about relationships, love, break-ups, break-up songs, and answer some of your questions. As usual, you can find more information and links to everything we talked about in this episode in the shownotes over at doingitpodcast.co.uk and please let us know what you think over on our Twitter or Instagram, which is @doingitpodcast and if you like this episode, please give us a rating and review over on iTunes. It is really appreciated. And without further ado, here is the lovely Laura Whitmore.
Laura, welcome. Welcome. How are you?
Laura Whitmore
I'm good. Hannah, how are you doing?
Hannah Witton
Not bad. I'm really excited to have this chat with you. Congrats on your book.
Laura Whitmore
Thank you. I know it's, it's kind of mad because I wrote it - feels like a long, long time ago.
Hannah Witton
It always is that way because publishing is so slow.
Laura Whitmore
It takes so long!
Hannah Witton
A book comes out and you're like, oh god, what did I write?
Laura Whitmore
Do you know what, that's, I was talking to somebody the other day and I kept telling them a story and I'm like, is that in my book? And they were like, yeah it is! And I'm like, I can't remember. I couldn't remember if it made the cut or not.
Hannah Witton
Like did I chuck that in there? Yeah. I - first of all, I just like have to talk to you about the title because I cannot get that Wilson Phillips song out of my head. And I'm just blaming you.
Laura Whitmore
It's catchy. It is catchy. It's one of them songs that once they get in there they are not leaving anytime soon.
Hannah Witton
It's rooted.
Laura Whitmore
it's funny because it's the song Hold On by Wilson Phillips of the 90s fame. A lot of people will know it from Bridesmaids but Hannah I go way back. I'm like OG fan like that was -
Hannah Witton
I know! My introduction to it was through Bridesmaids, I will admit,
Laura Whitmore
Which is a great film. I'm happy for the song to be dispersed in any manner. But yeah, it was the first cassette I ever owned.
Hannah Witton
Ever?
Laura Whitmore
Mmhmm. I still have the cassette - my mum found it actually -
Hannah Witton
Wow!
Laura Whitmore
- and sent me a picture of the sleeve with the lyrics in it, do you remember, back in the day? You probably don't remember cassettes but CDs, I just miss -
Hannah Witton
I do, I was around for cassettes, I will say.
Laura Whitmore
Yeah, I love that I still have it. But I love song lyrics. And I'm, you know, I'm such a music fan, and I, one of the questions I always ask a lot of guests that come on my radio show is the lyric they live for from a song. And it can be anything because we all, you know, we all have different songs that resonate with us, it can be everything from something really silly, to something really deep and meaningful. And also, the great things about songs are that, you know, one person it can be happy one person it can be something sad like, you know, a song can be taken apart and mean something different than what the original songwriter wrote about. So for me, I was thinking about, what song would I pick if I had to answer that question, because I'm always asking other people that question. And the lyric is: no one can change your life except for you. And I used to have it written in my old flat, um, on a chalkboard in my room.
Hannah Witton
I love that. Just like so you can constantly see it.
Laura Whitmore
Just to remind myself because, you know, with life and stuff, it's easy to blame other people or certain days and that's okay to, like, have those down days or have a rant, but then just to take yourself out of that dark hole and be like, okay, well, if I'm not happy about something, what am I going to do to change it? And that's kind of where it came from.
Hannah Witton
It's so interesting as well, because I feel like I've heard lots of people kind of like,come to the same conclusion through different ways. Like, it's actually our thoughts and our actions that we need to be focusing on. And there's all of these like external factors, what other people are doing ,what other people think of us, that we have no control over, and a lot of the circumstances that we find ourselves in. And obviously, this can apply to all different aspects of our life, as well as things like our relationships. But like my partner came to this conclusion - has been like spewing all of this stuff at me through Stoic philosophy; you come to it -
Laura Whitmore
Through Wilson Phillips!
Hannah Witton
- through a Wilson Phillips song, and I just love it, because I just think that it really applies. And once you kind of like, internalize that, like, okay, I'm feeling lonely right now, or I'm feeling - like, even with lockdown, especially, we feel like so much is out of our control.
Laura Whitmore
Oh, yeah, totally.
Hannah Witton
And it's like, okay, what do I have control over? What can I change?
Laura Whitmore
Yeah, and, and there's a lot of things we don't have control over. But there is always something that we do. And whether that is, you know, we can't leave our house, you know, we're being told we have to stay at home. Well, what can we do within our home to make it a little bit nicer? Can we be a little bit nicer to a partner? Can we, you know, maybe, you know, clean up the dishes one day?
Hannah Witton
Just only on one day though.
Laura Whitmore
Just on one day, and the rest of the days just leave it. You know, can I be, you know, calling on a neighbor and check they're okay, or dropping something around someone's doorstep? Little things. So, yes, maybe it doesn't feel like I can do anything for, you know, the wider world by doing things within your household and your community, it definitely has that ripple effects. And it takes time to kind of get to that stage, like, do you know what I mean? Like, it's very, like, you know, look at the news and be like, oh, god, there's nothing I can do, we're all doomed but I realized that isn't very good for the long term and for your mental health and - and for getting stuff done.
Hannah Witton
Yeah.
Laura Whitmore
Yeah, I think we can have those days where we're caught in it, but it's so important to move on from there. And it's really funny, because I think we all get there eventually. But you know, whether it's like your other half and it's through like philosophy, or whether it's through a song or whatever way, you know, whatever way you find to help you get through and realize that you have power, like, you are the hero of your own life. And we read all these books when were kids, don't we like, and we see all these Disney films, where like you're waiting for Prince Charming or like someone has to come and save the day. And I'm like, feck that, like, I'll do it myself. It's easier.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, I feel like the newer Disney films are definitely going down that route.
Laura Whitmore
Thank God. I did not have them. Not in my day.
Hannah Witton
No, definitely not. So we had to learn it instead of just being given that idea.
Laura Whitmore
Yeah, we had to live it. We lived it.
Hannah Witton
I wanted to ask, seeing as we were talking a bit about music and song lyrics and I want to get into stuff that you cover in your book around relationships and breakups, but I wanted to know like, what to you is your favourite break-up song?
Laura Whitmore
Oh, that's a great question.
Hannah Witton
Like it could just be a good one about break-ups or like for you specifically a song that got you through a break-up.
Laura Whitmore
So there's like, there's different stages of break-ups, isn't there? So my friend made me - I think it was her - I remember when I went through like a first break-up, and this is back living in Ireland, and my housemate at the time, I think I was about, like, 19 or something, and she had a break-up CD, like, that she made.
Hannah Witton
Break-up mixtape.
Laura Whitmore
And I remember - break-up mixtape! - I remember Kelis was on it: I hate you so much right now. *screams* So you'd put that on -
Hannah Witton
I love that.
Laura Whitmore
So you'd put that on and you'd be like ahhh, and then like, Grace by Jeff Buckley would come on. And then there was a whole other, like, The Last Goodbye, that song, and then you're like crying.
Hannah Witton
Just going through all the emotions.
Laura Whitmore
Literally every single emotion was on that CD. And I think that's what breakups are, though, they are like a million emotions in one. It's so hard and depending on what mood you're in, you're like, I want to cry now, I want to hate men right now, I want to, like, feel empowered right now. So there's always - the songs are, there's so many out there for your mood.
Hannah Witton
Totally, I can definitely like, think of one in particular, like the breakup that I had when I was like 19. It's a, it's a First Aid Kit song, but it's literally all about - it's so sad.
Laura Whitmore
Go on.
Hannah Witton
It's just like about how, oh, I can't be with you right now but like maybe one day or like you'll be off with your wife and kids and I'll just be like watching from afar, but like I couldn't be with you right now. It's so weird. Anyway, I deleted him off Facebook once I saw his wedding photos a few years later.
Laura Whitmore
But 19 is a weird age that I doubt - I think that breakup at that age, nothing will ever compare as you get older. Because when you get older you've lived life but when you're that age, it's like huge. Do you know what I mean? And you realize now how insignificant it probably is. But yeah, at the time it's like the biggest thing and I'm also a huge Alanis Morissette fan. So, like You Oughta Know, like, I'm here to remind you of the mess you left when you went away.
Hannah Witton
Yeah!
Laura Whitmore
And like, oh my god, I just love an angry song and then you get over it and then you're not angry any more.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, just like get that rage out in the song. I love it. Okay, so one thing that I absolutely have to ask you about; you mentioned this in your book.
Laura Whitmore
Yes.
Hannah Witton
The sex ed taught by a nun.
Laura Whitmore
I mean, probably not the best start in life. Like
Hannah Witton
Like, what was it? And is that still happening in Ireland, is my second question.
Laura Whitmore
What it was was don't bloody do it, is what it was. And yeah, I remember - because I went to a convent and like a lot of the teachers were nuns, and they were lovely - so they I think part of like - was it like - either science class or religion class was sex ed, I don't remember, it was like a mixture of the both. And a poor nun had to like, try and teach us the ins and outs, which, let's be honest, she probably was not the most informed or experienced. So I don't remember really much about it other than embarrassment and awkwardness, you know, and yeah, and then you kind of constantly for such a young part of your life have embarrassment to ask questions, or you'd hear people say words. Like, I remember once someone told me about foreplay, I had no idea what foreplay was, and I - and you're too embarrassed to say, what? What is that? Like? There's four of you? Is it like a threesome? I don't know. And it's just - it's just that embarrassment to talk about things and I really hope Ireland's moved on since then. But there was that thing, and I think for a lot of different areas in society - and still have this embarrassment: if you don't know something, you just don't ask and say nothing. And you never learn.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, it's so true. We just have a general, like, not just with like, sex and sex ed, but like, with all kinds of stuff in school. We're just like, oh, can't get stuff wrong. That would be embarrassing, or that would like, that just wouldn't be good.
Laura Whitmore
I know. And the worst thing as well is like, it took me to, like much later in life to - like, I just thought you could always get pregnant. I was like, you know, a boy looks at you, you get pregnant. You have sex, you get pregnant. And as you get older and then my friends were trying for babies and stuff. And then you know, there's like, two or three days of a month that you can get pregnant. I'm like, they did not teach us that. They were just like, you look at a boy, you get pregnant.
Hannah Witton
Yep! This is my current rage, because I'm currently trying to get pregnant. And you know, it's not happened yet. And I'm like, sex ed, you lied to me!
Laura Whitmore
They told us! They told us you would!
Hannah Witton
You told me that if I even looked at a penis, I would get pregnant!
Laura Whitmore
You spend your whole life trying not to get pregnant, and then you get to the stage when you're like, actually, now I can get pregnant. And then it's like really hard. And you're like, no one told me about this side of things.
Hannah Witton
Yeah. And they didn't prepare you for it as well. And also, I don't feel like I was actually taught how pregnancy and, like, conception happens, because we're just like, oh, sperm meets egg. That makes the baby
Laura Whitmore
I learned more about, you know, the reproductive system and how babies are made through Look Who's Talking. The film.
Hannah Witton
Oh, what's that?
Laura Whitmore
Remember the film of John Travolta, Kirstie -
Hannah Witton
No!
Laura Whitmore
Watch it, you'll learn so much.
Hannah Witton
Maybe it'll help.
Laura Whitmore
Basically, Kirstie Alley gets pregnant and the voice of her fetus is Bruce Willis.
Hannah Witton
What?!
Laura Whitmore
Bear with me, it makes sense. Watch the film. And it's just like - it's - it's a - it's a comedy but I learned more about like how the sperm goes into the egg through Bruce Willis pretending that like he's this baby inside Kirstie Alley. Honestly, that's, that's where my education came from.
Hannah Witton
I have to watch this now. What on earth.
Laura Whitmore
You'll be happy to know there's three. There's Look Who's Talking, Look Who's Talking Too, and Look Who's Talking Now.
Hannah Witton
Oh my god. Wow. Well, that's gonna be my next movie marathon.
Laura Whitmore
I'm actually gonna take note - I'm gonna - I'm sure I could watch that somewhere. I haven't watched that in years. I'm watching that tonight. I need to.
Hannah Witton
A refresher.
Laura Whitmore
Yeah, refresher course in, you know, how to have a baby: watch Look Who's Talking.
Hannah Witton
How's it been being pregnant in lockdown? What's that like?
Laura Whitmore
It's weird, because I've never done a lockdown before and I've never been pregnant before.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, true!
Laura Whitmore
So it's all new. It's been - yeah, I think the last month has been different in that, like, I spent six months kind of, you know, not publicly talking about it and having like my close friends know and I've been working during that time and I've been filming. So I kind of spent a lot of time hiding it and maybe out of denial or about being scared in case anything happens or, you know, and also not wanting to be judged by other people until I have time to let it settle in myself. So I'm like, you know, I'm like, I'm gonna allow myself to get my head around this before, you know, the world will judge you because when you become a mother or pregnant, people have opinions. Everyone has an opinion of what you should -
Hannah Witton
Have you had too much of that since you announced that you were pregnant.?
Laura Whitmore
Oh, everyone, like including people in my family and, and with the best intentions, everyone has an opinion of what you should and shouldn't do. And my advice is listen, like you can listen to it. But take no heed and follow your own heart and advice. And, you know, you don't have to tell everyone everything. But you can tell people what you want to tell. And when.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, that's true. Yeah, once again, you're in control.
Laura Whitmore
It just comes back to you, because everyone even from like, if you're going to get baby bottles, these are the ones that you should get - I'm like, literally - and then just don't get those ones, those ones are shit. Like, I'm like, everyone has an opinion about everything.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, and if it's like your first time being pregnant as well, you're just like, I have no idea.
Laura Whitmore
I have no idea. But like, I just think females are incredible. Like, our bodies kind of do it anyway. Like, I'm just so impressed with what my body's doing at the moment. I'm like, I don't know what's going on but you seem to be doing something at the moment.
Hannah Witton
Yeah. Body's doing its thing.
Laura Whitmore
Body's doing its thing. But yeah, it is overwhelming. And I have, in a way relished being in lockdown, um, like I'm pregnant, because, you know, it's, it's been nice to kind of have quiet time and to, to, you know, be reflective and not - I get early nights, because I think we all get early night because sure, what else would we be doing at night time.
Hannah Witton
I've never had so much of a routine and sleep.
Laura Whitmore
Me too. I'm like, you know, routine is important when you have a child. And yeah, I feel like this routine has been forced upon me by things outside my control but what I can control is like, how can I use this for positives. I know, it can get me into routine because I will need that if there's a baby in my life. I'm going to, you know, learn how to cook more, because we used to always eat out or be catering on set. So I'm like, oh, I'm actually doing grownup things. It's like, we ordered a tumble dryer that arrived today. I'm like who is this crazy person living in my house.
Hannah Witton
Adulting!
Laura Whitmore
I know, big time.
Hannah Witton
What is that even like? I remember being really grateful to my parents, because they were so honest with me about how - because I was the, I'm the oldest, their first kid -and they were just like, yeah, we had no idea what we're doing. They're just like, we were just making it up as we went along.
Laura Whitmore
But that is what I realized everyone is doing in life, like fake it till you make it. And I talk about that in the book: faking it to make it. Everyone. Like the musicians I interview, like actors, they're all like imposter syndrome. Everyone feels like they're an imposter in their own life, that someone's going to come in and say you shouldn't be here or you're not prepared. And I think that's what like parenthood is as well.
Hannah Witton
Yeah.
Laura Whitmore
I love that your parents said that to you.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, it was actually, it was more reassuring. Like, I didn't know, I didn't think like, oh my goodness, I was unsafe as a child. It was just like, oh, no, thank you. Cool. Good to know.
Laura Whitmore
I love that.
Hannah Witton
But with the fake it till you make it thing, and then like, kind of what we were saying before about this pressure like in sex ed to like, have all the answers and to like know what's going on, I feel like it's something that we find really difficult to embody when it comes to our, like sexual or romantic relationships. Because there's this pressure for us to like, be good in bed, whatever that means.
Laura Whitmore
I know - well, I just said. I didn't know what foreplay was like, you know? And again, I learned so much through television. And let's be honest, sex on television is not real life at all. And one of my, one of my friends who's just recently had, had a kid, well, she had a kid two years ago, but she was like, I'm so angry with my mother for her not telling me what childbirth was going to be like, because she's like, it's nothing like the films. It's messy, it's disgusting, it goes on longer. It's like, she's like, it's just so messy. Like no one tells you how messy it is. And I just thought that was really interesting. And the same with like, sex, like, it's awkward. Do you know?
Hannah Witton
It's messy again.
Laura Whitmore
It's messy, everything is messy. And yeah, you don't really learn about that. And I know the girls and guys, like neither of us have a clue. And sometimes you think the guy should know more. And you shouldn't think that, you just kind of have this pre-conditioned thought where you're like, oh, the guy is the kind of - I was going to say playing the male role, which he is. But like both are as, you know, oblivious to what's going on.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, it's so true. And we don't teach like young people anything about like how to do relationships and, like, have those conversations. And so I often think about like, when I was a teenager and, like, having relationships and doing things, I was just like acting, I was just like, mimicking adults I'd seen, like you said, in TV and in movies, and I was like, you know, you're just like, you're just playing pretend. Because that is all that you have to, like, go off. And it takes, I think it takes so much work and effort to like really kind of be like, hat do I want? And like, how do I actually want to behave in this situation? And like, what do I actually want to say here rather than what do I think the cool line is here?
Laura Whitmore
It's like, what does he want as opposed to what do I want? That takes a lot sort of - what should I be doing as in, you know, what do I want to do? And you're right, there's loads of shoulds in life. And I talk about that a lot in the book as well. Like, should. Should is this word which just hangs over us; this is what we should do. And like that comes up, it comes up to like having sex, like, you know, I talk about, you know, when I was younger, I was like, I haven't had sex with enough people. Like when you're young, you're meant to have sex with loads of people. And like I you know, I had this one boyfriend for like, a long time. And I'm like, I remember moving to London. I'm like, I haven't experienced life. You're supposed to be having one night stands. And I didn't want to have a one night stand.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, that's what the narrative is: you move to London and you have lots of sex.
Laura Whitmore
You sleep with everyone like, yeah, and it's like, that's okay. If you don't want to do that, because I'd meet someone and like them, and then go out with them, I'm like, damn it! Oh, this is supposed to be a one night stand!
Hannah Witton
Oh, my god, my partner who I - is now my husband, he was also meant to be a one night stand.
Laura Whitmore
Well, that worked out well for you, didn't it.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, it was like damnit, a very unsuccessful one night stand!
Laura Whitmore
Isn't it funny how, like, I just think it's really funny, because you spend - you try to get your numbers up, your numbers up, and then you get to a stage where like people like try to get your numbers down, get your numbers down. It's like it's always, you know, we're never in a stage where - of contentment, which is kind of sad.
Hannah Witton
Yeah. Yeah, it's so true. It's either not enough or too much. And like, I think for women, especially, there's this constant balancing act of not being enough, but also then being too much. And it could - like, you know, with sexual partners, but then you could also say in terms of, like, how loud you are, or how much space that you take up or like, or what you wear and how much makeup you wear. Because people will say like, oh, like, the natural look, like, not too much makeup isn't good but like no makeup is also really bad. And it's like there's this perfect medium that you have to fit. And it's like, but what is it ? It doesn't exist.
Laura Whitmore
It doesn't exist. That medium doesn't exist. And it's that space thing as well actually, you just said that - I remember like reading - there's an author Glennon Doyle. And she wrote in her first book love warrior, about like, you know, when you're younger, and you always, you know, you, you want to be a little bit smaller, you want to be skinnier, you don't want to take up much space. And then as we're older, it's not even about the physicality. It's about, you know, you're, you're kind of told not to be too loud in a room and know your place. And yeah, and I just think take up all the space you can like, life is great and exciting. And share the experience. Don't block someone else's space. But there's loads of space out there for everyone.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, it's so true. But this kind of like ties into what I wanted to ask you also about being a woman in the public eye and the kind of - the scrutiny that comes with that. And also, being in the public eye, you're kind of seen as being public property. And that also comes with being pregnant as well. It's like, oh, there's a pregnant person, I can touch their body.
Laura Whitmore
Oh my god, thank god for COVID, I'm like - because I haven't really had to experience that but a lot of my friends are like, people need to stop touching my belly.
Hannah Witton
I'm just like, the audacity, like, I can't believe people feel entitled to that. But yeah, how- what is that like for you being a woman in the public eye? And I know, you talk about your experience of like, upskirting and harassment in your book as well.
Laura Whitmore
It's like - I think being a woman in general is tough in so many different industries, especially industries that are male, male dominated, heavily male dominated. It's always hard to be the minority in any group, when you don't see yourself as much. And I think it took me a long time to realize that just because, you know, society or media had behaved this way for so long, doesn't mean that it's okay, because, you know, I look at, I look at women, who I hugely admire in the industry, and who, you know, come before me. Everyone from like, Davina McCall on the telly, or I remember seeing like, Sienna Miller, an actress, when she was like, going through like breakups and stuff and everyone writing about her and things like, oh, everyone kind of goes through that. And then you're like, actually that, like, that's fucking wrong. Like, it's not okay.
Hannah Witton
It's like that excuse of like, oh, but it has always happened.
Laura Whitmore
It's always been this way. Yeah.
Hannah Witton
No! Doesn't mean it's a good thing!
Laura Whitmore
Exactly. And I think times have changed with social media, for the bad and for the good, because we do have a little bit more of a platform personally. It does mean that everyone and their mother has a platform, but, but, I, yeah, I think that's been kind of interesting as well to look at, actually, we're constantly evolving, and there's space for change always. And I do feel really lucky as a female in this industry at the moment. And that's really weird to say, because there's so many things I'm not happy about being a female, but I do feel we've come so far. And I feel we can still go further. But I do feel there are conversations and narratives happening that didn't happen before. And I remember someone said, someone said something online being like, oh, back in - like, why did you always have to, like, you know, say something, about everything, why can't you just be like, you know, like, our parents' generation and just get on with it? And I'm like, our parents, like, my, my grandmother were like - like, the women in Ireland, like, had babies taken away from them. Like, they didn't have any, like, control over their bodies, like, that is not the world that I want to live in. Do you know? And I think it's okay to move forward and speak up about things. And it's very important, because I hope that, you know, when I have a child in this world, and then the next generation, the next generation, that it'll be a little bit better than than it is now.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, it's that incremental change. Yeah,
Laura Whitmore
Yeah, big time.
Hannah Witton
So true.
Laura Whitmore
Big time.
Hannah Witton
I wanted to- this is a bit of a pivot.
Laura Whitmore
Okay. I love a pivot. I love spinning around.
Hannah Witton
But there was this bit in your book where you talk about, like, the different kinds of love so like, first love, tragic love. And then when you talk about grown up love ,this bit piqued my interest, because this is ,like, one of my favourite things: spreadsheets. Grown up love, you figure out what you like, and you got a spreadsheet of it. And I just need to know, like, do you actually have a spreadsheet?
Laura Whitmore
I don't have a spreadsheet. But it is, it's kind of in everyone is different and everyone will be attracted to different people for different reasons and it's kind of figuring out in your head what you want. And I remember, like, you know, there's been different relationships, which I've ended, where other people will be like, well, that's not worth ending it because, you know, you could work on it. And then I had to realize, well, for me, you know, what can I cope with as an individual? Because we're all different, like, I've had friends who've, you know, had relationships break up and then work through them, and they've survived, and they've been really good and strong. And I'm like, that's because that works for you. And that's perfect. Because it's, you know, everyone is different. And then I've other people who, it doesn't work, and they have to kind of - and they try and make it work, but it doesn't work and you have to be like, as what can I cope with as a person? And what do I need? And, and yeah, we get told what we need, we are told what we should do, it takes a long time to realize, actually, these are my needs. And sometimes it's trial and error.
Hannah Witton
So true.
Laura Whitmore
And different stages of your life, you want different things like early 20s Laura, 19 year old Laura wanted very different things rhan Laura, you know, who's 30 like, it's, it's changes, I'm still the same person, but my wants, and my needs are different. And yeah, there's different stages of love. And I still think, you know, I still love that, like first love young love, lust. And I think it's really important to have that in your relationship as you get older. But I think there's also a grown up love there. That's really important, too. Because I think, and you might get this with your partner too, like, they should be your best friend. I'm like, there are definitely people I went out with in my early, you know, dating years that weren't my best friends. They were just very fun.
Hannah Witton
They're very fun. Yeah. Honestly, I think that the experience of the last year being locked down with my partner as well, I'm just, like, so grateful that he's the person who I can spend like the most time with and not be annoyed.
Laura Whitmore
That's so - that's so lovely. Because, yeah, I was thinking the same too. I mean, I'm annoyed with him quite a lot of the time. But like - but I still like him and that's like - I still love him. You annoy me and I still love you, that is big.
Hannah Witton
That is pretty big.
Laura Whitmore
But you're like - you know that one person that you can - I wrote - do you know what actually, I remember going to like, a dinner or something. And, and it was a bit of a boring dinner, if I'm honest, and at dinner we're all sitting at different places and I remember going, like - and I spend so much time at my other half so I'm happy to when we go out we do our own things. We're both very independent. But I'm so happy I'm sitting beside you, because you just make tonight so much fun. Do you know when you're like, and that person I get to spend every evening with. Even if, you know, we probably normally wouldn't spend this much time together. But I'm like, you know, you're that fun person and you're on this adventure with me, like, life is an adventure. You know, doing all the different things. And who knows what the future will hold. This is an adventure and you get to share that with someone and I think that's such a privilege.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, that's so true. I completely agree. I love what you said about the, like bringing in that first love kind of feelings. The crushes and the stuff. Like that's something that I, like, am consciously aware of, and it's just like, okay, how can we intentionally bring these things into our relationship to balance out that security?
Laura Whitmore
Yeah.
Hannah Witton
But then also with like the newness and the excitement because I'm someone who thrives off novelty and so it's like, how can I make this same person, same relationship, feel new and exciting to me? And there's so many different ways that you can do that. Granted, less ways in lockdown, but it's still possible.
Laura Whitmore
Give me some tips, what have you been doing?
Hannah Witton
It's just like, putting effort into new experiences and things that you do together, but also doing things on your own, that are new and different. Because it doesn't necessarily have to be stuff that you do together, you can do things that are different, separately, and then kind of like, you then bring that energy into the relationship.
Laura Whitmore
Do you find it hard - I find I kind of miss, like, you know, we're both very lucky that we're still working both I am working a lot from home, you know, I am getting to studio some days, which are good, but I miss, like, coming home from a day's work and, like, talking to my partner about, like, how my day's been. I love that time apart, but we can come back and then be excited and tell each other what we've done. So the few days where we do get to get out and work, it's like really exciting to come home and be like, oh my god, I have so many things to talk about.
Hannah Witton
Yeah. It's like, how was your day? Yeah, yeah. That's very true, it is -
Laura Whitmore
Not just like, what did you do when you went upstairs to the loo? Do you know what I mean? Like, that's not exciting.
Hannah Witton
How was that shit?
Laura Whitmore
Yeah, it's like, yeah, I did - that does not bring excitement into our life.
Hannah Witton
No, I do too - also though, I do enjoy the shit conversations. If I'm honest,
Laura Whitmore
I feel like there's a lot more like bowel movement conversations that have happened in the last year than ever. And I come from talking about the dog and ourselves.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, yeah, you've got to be aware of all of the members of your households' bowel movements, like, it's important.
Laura Whitmore
We know way too much about all of our movements.
Hannah Witton
It's important to be on top of that stuff. All right, Laura, I've got some questions from our followers on Instagram for you.
Laura Whitmore
Ooh, okay.
Hannah Witton
Um, somebody asked, what advice would you give 20 year old Laura?
Laura Whitmore
That's a good question. It's really hard because in somehow like, I'm very protective over 20 year old Laura. Like, I'm like she figured it out for herself. Um, and I guess maybe it goes back to like the book stuff, like stop caring so much about what other people think of you because they are gonna think it no matter what, you can't change other people's opinion. And then you know, as well, like, I remember one of the breakthroughs was like, people are so self-involved that you think they're talking about you loads, that they make a comment, or you might think they're thinking this, but they're so think - they're so self-involved about themselves. They're not really thinking about you, they're just thinking about themselves. So I'd love to just tell myself back being like people are not as interested in you as you may think they are.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, I remember that being a breakthrough for me at some point as well being like, hang on, if I'm spending all of this time worrying about myself, then maybe that's what everyone else is doing. They're also worrying about themselves.
Laura Whitmore
Right? You are right.
Hannah Witton
And I was like, ah, something has clicked. No one is wasting is wasting their time thinking about me.
Laura Whitmore
Nobody cares.
Hannah Witton
It was quite freeing.
Laura Whitmore
Yeah, it is, it's lovely.
Hannah Witton
When you figure that out. Okay. Some other people have come to us with some advice questions.
Laura Whitmore
Yes. Oh god.
Hannah Witton
And we can do our best, agony aunt style
Laura Whitmore
Together. Together, we'll do it.
Hannah Witton
Yeah. So there was a few people actually, who are asking questions about being friends with an ex? And is it possible to be friends with someone whilst you're getting over them?
Laura Whitmore
I don't know about you. I don't think when you're getting over them. I think you can be friends with an ex, but I think it can take time. I think if one of them - if you or the - if, if you think you can straight afterwards, you're not the one that's still in love. Or you're not the one that's - you know, or you're just, you're hoping that you'll get back together? I just think there's very raw feelings there. I've, I've got like lots of exes that I'm friends with. "I've got lots of exes"; I don't have that many, but, like, I'm friends with them. But I don't think I was straightaway. I think sometimes you just need a bit of time. For me personally - unless you - you're the one over them. But then I think they maybe need time.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, you have to give them the space.
Laura Whitmore
Yeah. What do you think?
Hannah Witton
I have to agree to be honest. Like, I feel like the best way to get over someone or maybe the quickest way to get over someone is to, like, break all contact. That was always my strategy. And I have to have friends, like, delete people's numbers from my phone and be, like, strict with me, but it always worked.
Laura Whitmore
I agree.
Hannah Witton
- when you're like feeling good in yourself and you're not - you're not friends with them but wanting something else.
Laura Whitmore
So hard. Yeah.
Hannah Witton
And maybe you could try being friends with them. But the thing is, is that I think maybe, somewhere down the line, you will get over them and you'll get to a place where you can just be friends. But I do think that that process will be so much more painful and longer than if you just cut all ties and then came back to that friendship relationship -
Laura Whitmore
And a lot of it then - when you're friends, you know, you say you're friends, but basically it's a comfort as well and it's very hard to move on when you still have the comfort of - and it's - breakups are hard. They're so shit, like, they're just, they're just shifts. And there's no, there's no advice about, like, yeah, breakups, if you stay friends with them, it's gonna make it easier. It's like no, no, because you won't be fully over them, or you'll sleep with them and then feel worse, or you'll try and get back together. And you'll, then you'll remember why you broke up in the first place. But I definitely do think you can be friends. I just think you need time and you both need to be in a place so far gone that you remember the good things about each other, and not necessarily the bad.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, or you do remember the bad so that you're not tempted to try another romantic relationship?
Laura Whitmore
Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. You're - you remember the friendship stuff but yeah, you remember why you didn't want to go out with them.
Hannah Witton
You're like, yeah. I like it when you get to that place with some people where you're like, I really appreciate your company, but I could never date you.
Laura Whitmore
I have gotten to that place with people. And it's been lovely.
Hannah Witton
It's great. It's a really happy place to be. Everyone on the same page.
Laura Whitmore
Exactly.
Hannah Witton
This is an interesting one. Someone asked: has social media created unrealistic relationship expectations?
Laura Whitmore
I think social media has created, like, loads of, like, expectations that are unrealistic for like outside of relationships, like, do you know what I mean, like, unrealistic expectations for, like, how your body should look, or how, you know, how your dinner should look, or how you could work or what your friendships should be like. I think there's lots of unrealistic expectations for everything, so that will, of course, include relationships, because social media isn't real life. And like, I'm not - people do but like, for me, my social media is for work. But I also like to put - when I choose to - something personal up there, but not always. I don't put every fight I've had with, you know, Ian, or every, you know, make-up or every, like, great day we've had up there. Because I don't need to, because I'm living my life. So you don't have to. So sometimes you might just see the good times people have and think that's real. And so I think, I think once we can, you know, going back to the you again, you can control how you perceive things. So when you see something online, know that that is not real, if you can - and it's not up to the person who's putting up stuff. It's up to you how you perceive that and your perspective. So if you can just alter your perspective to be like, that's a lovely picture. Look at - some of these, like couple goals Instagrams are hilarious. But I'm like, you know she killed him trying to get that picture. You know he took 50 pictures and she wasn't happy with that, or, you know, and if you can kind of get your head around that, then I think, you know, you'll be in a good place.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, that's so true actually. I have to really try and persuade my partner to take photos of me. He absolutely hates it. So. Just so people know.
Laura Whitmore
I've trained mine up really well like during lockdown. I've trained him so he does angles now. I'm like, where has this man been?
Hannah Witton
Ah, well, he's here now. You've trained him up good. Aw, man. Yeah, I think with the unrealistic expectations, as well, like what you said about you're just busy living your life. That is a conclusion that I only recently came to, and I wish I'd come to it sooner. But it was like I had this penny drop moment, like, some, some time last summer where I was like, why am I just performing my life? Why aren't I actually living my life?
Laura Whitmore
But you do that! Like, I've definitely been places like, you know when you go on a lovely holiday, and you're like, oh, my god, I must record all this. And then you're like, put the phone down and experience this. And, you know, you - do you know, this is really random story to tell, but it just kind of came into my head when I was talking about it.
Hannah Witton
Go on.
Laura Whitmore
I remember when I started out in MTV, and I was working at the BAFTAs and it was when Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie were together. And they were like, you know, when they walk the red carpet that was like the big people on the carpet. And my - it was Lucy was my producer and she was on camera because MTV, small budget, we did everything. And so she was on camera and was producing and she saw them and she was like, oh, I need to get - we need to get footage of this, like, we'll have to have this for the bulletin and we'll have to have this for the package. So she was filming it. And then she went, hold on. And she was looking like, you know, looking through the little eyehole. And then she just went, hold on, I need to see this in real life for myself, for my own memories. And then she kind of ,she still had the camera there but she looked up and looked at it, because she was like I want to register this for myself. I need to say that I saw Brad and Angelina, not just through a camera. And I just remember thinking - I know it's really random - but if you use that in real life, going, actually sometimes you just need to see things for yourself and not through the eye of the lens.
Hannah Witton
Mm hmm. Yeah, it's so true. And I yeah, I think that just applies to like so many different parts of our lives. I've really enjoyed just having, like, moments to myself and moments just for me and my partner in lockdown, but it's just like, this is just us. Like, there's literally nobody else here.
Laura Whitmore
Yeah, and things that you did and- you know, so much stuff is online now. And that's - and like, no judgement, everyone can show as much as they want or as little as they want. But, you know, there's so many big things that have happened for us. Like, you know, even when we got engaged a year ago, or we got married a year ago, or different things that we didn't share at the time, but they happened. They definitely happened. And I remember them happening and these experiences, and it's, it's really funny, like now, now we've spoken about it and, and people know about things, but it's - it was like, oh, yeah, that happened ages ago, because that's a memory now in my head at that time and it's fresh for other people, but I'm like, really happy that I've got my memories that are mine.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, it's so true. Yeah. And this next question is a funny one. Well, I find it funny.
Laura Whitmore
Okay, go on, hit me.
Hannah Witton
They've said, is it unhealthy to not feel mournful for the end of a long term relationship? I literally feel fine.
Laura Whitmore
That's - you've checked out from that relationship a long time ago when that happens.
Hannah Witton
Yeah.
Laura Whitmore
And that happens - that - I love that. There's nothing wrong with that. There is nothing.
Hannah Witton
No.
Laura Whitmore
Maybe, maybe don't tell the other person if they're suffering a lot. But yeah, I I've got a few friends who've gone through breakups in lockdown, which I think - I think you either get stronger or you break up. It's like one or the other. There's extremes. And, um, yeah, she wasn't sad, even though they've been they've been together for years. And I was like, you've just checked out of this relationship a long time ago, and you just didn't realize.
Hannah Witton
Wow.
Laura Whitmore
And I think it's quite a nice way to be. And I was like, I mean, lucky you. I mean, he's distraught, which is not ideal for him. I was like, maybe don't tell him just how fine you are with the breakup of the relationship.
Hannah Witton
Yeah. That's got to hurt.
Laura Whitmore
But I think that's fine. Because you, you, you probably grieved for it in another way. You probably, you know, through the year beforehand, or through struggles or through fighting or through something or through self loathing, you grieve through - for that relationship when it was still existing and still alive.
Hannah Witton
Hmm, that's so true. And then also, you never know, it might hit you in a different way some point in the future, but also it might not.
Laura Whitmore
Yeah, maybe a year later you're like, oh, shit, actually, I had it really good and I miss him. But you can only feel what you feel, really.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, it's so true, but I don't think there's anything unhealthy about it, but I think I agree with just like, maybe keep that to yourself, or just tell your friends.
Laura Whitmore
Maybe like you just weren't that into him, you know? And you didn't realize.
Hannah Witton
Yeah. Well, Laura, thank you so much. It's been an absolute pleasure chatting with you.
Hannah Witton
I've loved it, Hannah. Thank - I feel like, I feel like oh my god, I could just like be an agony aunt now. Like, give me more.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, it's a bit addictive. I love hearing people's like questions for advice and stuff. I'm just like, gimme, gimme, gimme. Let's sort through these problems.
Laura Whitmore
Let's sort your life out.
Hannah Witton
Where can people find you online? And of course your book.
Hannah Witton
Oh lovely. So the book, No One Can Change Your Life Except For You. So you can get it on - you can get it everywhere. Amazon, Waterstones, bookstore - hopefully, when books are open again, I do miss proper bookstores ,but you can buy it online. And if you go to my - I'm on Instagram, @thewhitmore got links there. I'm on Twitter @thewhitmore. And where else am I? I'm on TikTok, Hannah, I am all over it. Just the same name there, whitmore, is which is actually what like - when I was 16 one of, one of the lads called me that and now it's stuck with me forever and now I regret having, like, that as like a name from, like, school and now it's too late. Now I'm in it.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, but at least you're consistent across all your social media platforms.
Laura Whitmore
Exactly, exactly.
Hannah Witton
Well, thank you so much. It's been an absolute pleasure.
Laura Whitmore
Thank you, absolute joy.
Hannah Witton
Thank you all for listening. Bye!
Thank you so much for listening to Doing It. If you enjoyed it, I would really appreciate it if you left a rating and a review. You can find shownotes at doingitpodcast.co.uk and do go follow us on social media and I'll catch you in the next episode. Bye.
This was a Global original podcast