Explicit Sex Ed and Diversity in Porn with Lina Bembe and Anarella Martinez | Transcript
Find the episode shownotes here!
Lina Bembe
In Berlin, there has been like this festival that has been running for like over 16 years now, the porn film festival in Berlin. And I went there, like out of curiosity, and I really liked what I saw because it also like offer pornography that I wasn't like, used to finding on the internet, you know.
Hannah Witton
Welcome to Doing It with me, Hannah Witton, where we talk all things sex, relationships, dating, and our bodies. Hi everyone, welcome back to Doing It. I hope that you are well, and I hope that you are staying home where possible.
This episode is about something that we can all enjoy, if we want to, from home and that is porn. Other caveat, if you're over the age of 18 because that's the law in the UK. So this episode is with Lina Bembe and Anarella Martínez. Lina Bembe is a porn performer and director and Anarella Martínez is the founder of Sex School Hub, which is an explicit sex education platform. So in this episode, we talk a lot about the porn industry, about the social media censorship that Sex School Hub has come up against, the stigma of being a porn performer, and then also, just the potential amazingness of porn, in terms of the conversations that it can allow us to have about politics and feminism, and also the representation that we can find there, in terms of diversity in bodies, in sexual orientations, in desires. We talk a lot about communication, and how porn can teach us good communication in relationships and in sexual experiences. And some of the behind the scenes that happens in porn in terms of conversations around negotiations that happen before scenes, that happen off camera. So we're not necessarily seeing these things happen in the porn that we do watch. Thanks so much to Lina and Anarella for recording this with me all the way from Berlin. I really admire the work that they do and it was just such a great conversation just full of really good nuggets, and you can just tell that they are so passionate about what they do.
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Welcome Lina. Welcome, Anarella, thank you so much for joining me.
Lina Bembe
Thank you.
Hannah Witton
So I'm really excited to dive into talking about porn with you both, talking about Sex School, and sex education, and so I thought we'd just start with what is Sex School? And why did it come about?
Anarella Martínez
Thank you.
Lina Bembe
Sex School is a platform for explicit sex education films. I think that's the most accurate way to describe it, although like some people have also call it like, EduPorn.
Hannah Witton
Nice!
Lina Bembe
I then it's like it brings together experts of different, very different, fields like starting from certified sex educators, sex coaches, but also sex workers of different kinds, and also like filmmakers, and artists. And then we put like all together, like the ideas and the knowledge and experience that we have about like sex and sex education to create mostly films that deal with topics about like real life, sex niches and interactions. And the whole idea was founded by an Anarella -
Anarella Martínez
On this plane.
Lina Bembe
Yes.
Anarella Martínez
I can be very personal here. Like everything is started because I was abused when I was a kid. And since that time, all my art work, I study art, all my art work was very related and connected to how to feel better about this trauma of this situation. So how to set my body, and how to, I don't know, how to process like, everything
Hannah Witton
Yeah, that whole healing.
Anarella Martínez
Exactly! So it was like very personal, I had this in my in my body and my mind for super long time. So in 2016 I had the honour to organise a sex festival in Valencia, my city,
Hannah Witton
Oh, exciting.
Anarella Martínez
And I met there are a lot of people from the porn industry and I fell in love with them. I was just like, I felt very, I felt like home when I was surrounded by all these people from the sex and porn industry. Because I was feeling very happy and open to be able to talk with them all these topics and all other topics, I was not feeling weird, or and outsider, anymore. And so after this, I was like, hmm, I really would like to do something that is connected to sex education, but with all these people, because they have a lot of knowledge and, and I mean, who's gonna talk better than them?
Hannah Witton
Yeah! Is that how the two of you met?
Anarella Martínez
Yeah, kind of.
Lina Bembe
Yeah, pretty much. I mean, like, I think that I mean, like if Berlin has like a proper independent porn scene, which like, the people who are part of it, like even though like, we have like very, like different, we can have like very different views, or very different porn niches in which we're work in. We end up like meeting each other, and we ended up eventually, like collaborating on many things. So I don't know. I mean, I think I just I don't remember like the exact time when we met each other.
Anarella Martínez
We met at the Porn Film Festival the first time.
Lina Bembe
Yeah, but it was this kind of thing of like, hi, but then you like kind of like, see like each other. You have like, oh, like familiar faces, oh, I saw that you were with this person, blah blah blah. So it's like, it's quite easy to connect
Anarella Martínez
Yes. And then the second time we met was when we were starting, like, casting people for this project that we didn't know what it was, and it ended up been Sex School.
Lina Bembe
Yes.
Hannah Witton
Oh, cool. One of the things that I really love about it, and I think I first heard about it when I met you, Anarella, at Switched On the UNESCO event that was a few months ago, but feels like a lifetime ago. And when I first heard of it, like something just immediately clicked for me, because I've always been saying like, when you're teaching young people, like say in school, about pornography, a lot of the conversations are around, like, is it unrealistic? And what do actual, like real life, healthy sexual experiences look like? And are they the same in porn? Or how do they differ to porn? And I've always said like, if only like, obviously, at least in the UK, it would be illegal. But like, if only we could actually like, show young people some porn scenes and then be like, and discuss. And have this discussion about it. And basically what you've created is that, for adults. The, like, the film's I really love that you've got those moments of the actors talking about what is about to happen, and but also just like discussing the theme in general, and sharing experiences, and then you like, watch it all unfold. And then there's like, the aftercare and the talking afterwards of like, how was that for you? Which I just think is so important.
Lina Bembe
Yeah, it is. And I think that even like, these things happen in actual porn. But it's just like, people, like, don't show it, like leave it out in the edit, in the editing room, because in so many ways, like pornography, it's supposed, or has like this intention to depict certain fantasies of creating a very specific atmospheres, that don't, that don't always have to be realistic. So like, you keep the fantasy you leave out, like all these beds, and all like these situations in which, like, actors know exactly what's going to happen, but they just like, don't tell it because otherwise that's like a massive, like, spoiler.
Hannah Witton
What kinds of things would those be?
Lina Bembe
I mean, when you are hired for a scene, you are basically told what is expected from you, in terms of like sexual acts. Like, if you're going to have a threesome, then it's, you're not, I mean, you're not supposed to like walk into a set and then suddenly, it's going to become an orgy. Or if you like, if you talk about like, okay, it's got to be like intercourse, then it's not going to be like, oh, now it's got to be anal, what you're going to do. So everything is like very much like, discussed beforehand.
Anarella Martínez
But we don't, we don't say exactly what you have to do.
Lina Bembe
Yeah, but I mean, in the sense I get it's also like, very predictable because like, you don't want to on set, like I said, it's not, you don't walk on set, like thinking it's a threesome and suddenly it's like an orgy. So it can be like, it can be like very transparent also, like all this discussion surrounding sexual health and how being transparent about your status about like having like the certainty that people have been, like, tested recently and so on. And also like this very, like risk aware approach to things that, you know, like, what risks are you taking, like, either whether you use barrier protection or not, and all these things, you know -
Hannah Witton
Yeah.
Lina Bembe
So in many ways, like when porn is, is done, like under like, safe, transparent ethical standards, it can be the really, really, really, really safe experience.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, but even so, those conversations are potentially happening off camera.
Lina Bembe
Yes, exactly. And so in many ways, I think that people sometimes like, have like this problem with the fantasy on someone's because like, sometimes, like people like project, like their real life wishes into fantasies. And that is a problem. And I think that it's very strange that this happens for pornography, but that doesn't happen for a conventional cinema. Like if you watch like a chick flick, for example, and you know that the girl is going to find her prince charming, and he's gonna, like, give her the ring in the most romantic way, and they're going to be happily ever after. Like, people will kind of know it's not real
Hannah Witton
People know it's not realistic, but I think they wish it was!
Lina Bembe
But I do see, like, for example, I guess, superhero film, you don't like leave the cinema thinking that you could fly, or that you could like -
Anarella Martínez
Really?
Lina Bembe
That's, I mean, that's alright. And people don't criticise like, oh, why is Superman unrealistic? It's because yeah, it's a fantasy. And people should have like a similar approach to pornography. And, having said that, at the same time, like pornography, when like, when like, producers or actors, like really put their mind to, it can also be like a very important educational tool. Because sex education, unfortunately, like you said before, it's not, it's not explicit enough. So they talk about all these things. And but then you don't get to see they like, literally go around the bush.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, the most explicit thing that I saw, it wasn't even in the sex ed class, it was like in biology, and we had to watch a video of a woman giving birth. Obviously, not sexual. But very explicit. Oh, and they did, they showed us pictures of genitals that had had untreated STIs. So it was like, so it was like the only explicit photos or video that we got of genitals was like, childbirth, and STI.
Anarella Martínez
And that's a problem right? All that education teaches is to be scared of an STI
Hannah Witton
Nothing to do with pleasure, or like healthy relationships, or consent, it was like that, nah. Like that just was not there. Lina, I'm interested in your story, and like how you got into being a porn performer? And then also, like, what kinds of reactions do you get from people when you tell them what you do? And like, Is there still like very much a stigma there?
Lina Bembe
Well, yeah, I mean, there is always like stigma around pornography and anything that is sexually explicit, including sex education.
Hannah Witton
Yeah.
Lina Bembe
It's still, it's still there. It's very much well and alive, and like, there's always like people feeding into it. Okay, let's start from the beginning. Like the way in which I decided to do porn was like, very much like, it was a gut feeling, actually. I didn't have like too much, like, too much too many, like elaborate thoughts about it. I um, in Berlin, there has been like this festival that has been running for like, over 16 years now. The porn film festival in Berlin. And I went there, like, out of curiosity, and I really like what I saw, because it also like offer pornography that I wasn't like, used to finding on the internet, you know. It was like, far more diverse, it was like, even like, funny, it was like, very political, it was like, so interesting, really refreshing to see like, this very different kind of like narratives, like contents and bodies.
Lina Bembe
And it kind of felt, I felt like really close to me, to a point in which I thought like, oh, perhaps I could actually end up like doing that. I mean, not only enjoying that, but I could actually see myself perhaps like being in front of the camera. So with this thought in mind, I just like got in touch with a couple of directors. And then I met for coffee with one and then we just like talk about like her work and so on, and does she work, and like we also talk about what, what my thoughts were, what my expectations what, What my motivations. And then like after that, like we decided that we wanted to work together, and one month later I started shooting. And then after that I continued shooting, but I think my very first year was like very like slow. It was just like every now and then, like for me, it was also about like testing the waters, like okay is this like, because it kind of like was like so intuitive and like so, and I like dive into it like so smoothly. I was wanting to test like okay, is this like the right thing for me? Am I really sure that I want to do this? So I also would like very like cautiously into that, and until then I was like sure that okay, like actually I was right about everything, I have like no doubts. Okay, now I can work.
Hannah Witton
Ooh, yeah. That's always good to figure out.
Lina Bembe
Yes! And when it comes like to talking about what what I do as a porn performer, I think that at some in the very beginning they had like some kind of like, like my coming out stories to certain people weren't like, the smoothest ones.
Hannah Witton
Yeah.
Lina Bembe
And then like little by little, I realised that like the, the stigma that exists around pornography is not something that I can just like change myself overnight. And that sometimes it's just like, okay, it's better for me is to take care of myself and disclose what I do to the people that I think they're gonna take it in the right way. And in the right way, I mean, like, not by like being hyperexcited about it, like, bombard you with questions nonstop. It's more about like, oh, okay, cool. Like, this is just like -
Hannah Witton
Yeah, like a non-judgmental attitude.
Lina Bembe
Yes. Like, not just mentally say, okay, just like another this is just like a, this is just a job, you know. More in a normalising way, and like overtime, you just like kind of like develop a radar, and then you just like learn to read the situation and disclose like this information to the people who can take it and to those who don't then I just like makeup, whatever, and don't feel bad about it.
Hannah Witton
What are your made up jobs?
Lina Bembe
I mean, I just like, I don't go like that big lengths of like saying, oh my god, I am an astrophysicist or anything like that. I just say, oh I just I do production, film production.
Hannah Witton
So it's like vague enough that people don't follow ask follow up questions.
Lina Bembe
Yes. Yeah, just like films like you know, it's very niche. Very niche, like independent scene. So it's like even like, like a halfway through but I just like don't talk about like the sex bit because, I think of something else.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, just not specifically know what kinds of films. I love that. I'd be interested to know for both of you, like, what has porn taught you?
Anarella Martínez
Hmmmm, I don't know. I guess for me that my relationship with porn was a bit weird in the beginning. Yeah, in the beginning I didn't like porn till till I organised the festival and I met all this, all of you and everything. But what I learned through porn? I don't know, like to be maybe more open. Like, I don't know, I've been always, I mean, I am not in the porn scene per se, I'm more in the sex scene. And I've been doing workshops and things like that for many years. So for me pornography is just another kind of a like for me watch porn as a film, actually.
Hannah Witton
Entertainment
Anarella Martínez
Entertainment, exactly. And also like, thinking what we can do so I don't, I don't know, like for me, is I remember when I shot a film with Poppy Sanchez, who's a performer, and that was for me like how they say, like for me was a way of opening up and accepting myself. I was also coming to the process of getting getting myself better actually. So if porn helped me somehow, it was just to say, hey, I'm here, I'm strong, I'm independent woman, and I can do whatever they want. And I'm happy here
Hannah Witton
Yeah, that's so good. And porn can be like so many different things to different people as well. Like porn is what helped me have my first orgasm, so I'm always grateful to porn.
Lina Bembe
Yeah, I think that's for me, like porn has, as mentioned before, like when done like under the right, under like safe, transparent, ethical conditions like porn like gives you all like this like safety in which you can't like, and then also it's also like very encouraging to like, show yourself, to feel like to feel good about yourself and your body, and I think that also like as people who are like, who have been feminise without being like, assigned female at birth and with people who like grow, like with everyone, like telling you from so many different places that you, that you don't even have ownership to your body. That you should be ashamed of your pleasure that like, you have like no agency whatsoever, you know, it's also like very much like taking back like all this agency that you don't like that you don't have on so many ways, you know. So it also like helped me a lot with being like better at communicating, you know. And not being like about like saying, okay, I certain things that I like, certain things that I don't like, this is how it's gonna happen. About also like demanding like the same from the partners that you are in, with, and understanding that communication, like it's like a very important like role in terms of like safety and pleasure.
Hannah Witton
You have the opportunity in your job to like, have those conversations and practice having them.
Lina Bembe
Yeah, absolutely. It is like, pretty much, I think that if people cannot communicate, if people do not know what consent is, if people for example, don't know, like where their boundaries are, I can like express them in a clear way. You're very much at risk, for yourself, or for other people. Like you simply cannot be in porn if you don't know about this things, or if you cannot discuss them. Or at least like in a safe in a safe way, you know, because, of course, like there's abusive people everywhere, but like, but this is definitely some like very important, like set of like skills and knowledge that porn workers, and general like sex workers, develop, or have to have, you know.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, no 100%. And it's one of those things where I'm like, everyone can learn these lessons, and I think it's really great. Like with sex school as well, then you have porn performers who are used to having these conversations, and it being like, essential to their jobs to be able to have these conversations, teaching people to be able to have them in their, like everyday sex lives. And it's all about practice. I feel like, I'm quite good at having those conversations now, but only because I've practised, yeah, and it takes like, being awkward and not really knowing what to say and, and thinking that you're messing it up and just feeling a bit insecure about it. It just takes like sitting in that awkwardness, and just pushing through, to get to a point where you're like, oh, I was able to have this entire conversation about sex without feeling bad about myself, or feeling like I was being too demanding or anything like that.
Anarella Martínez
Hannah, how did you learn to communicate that way? If may I ask.
Hannah Witton
I think because I was interested in like sex as a subject matter. And so I was like, learning about it academically and like, also, just seeking out my own adult sex education. It was just one thing that, it just fascinated me. And so whenever I was having, like, my personal sexual experiences, I'd be like, curious about their sexuality as well. So I'd be like, what do you like? Like it just came from this place of pure curiosity. Those conversations didn't necessarily always go down well, because some people just were not ready to open up. But then the times that it did go really well, it just meant that like, those sexual experiences were brilliant, you know -
Lina Bembe
It's really it's really, I think, it's, it's really true, what say about like, having to push through it. I remember also, like years ago and so that's like a person asked me again, what what things do you like? And what like, like, they asked me like literally, like, what are your like, boundaries, like hard limits, like soft limits, like and so I was like, oh, what are they? You know. And it literally took me to sit down, pen and paper, I will write like a list, oh is it this, is that like, you have to let also like go back into my memories and to like analyse like my previous experiences. So it's like, oh, it's also this, it's also that, I like this, like sometimes, but these only when like, these these conditions are met. Or like this, I have like this, kind of like with this level of arousement, maybe it can do this. Or like maybe this it's also cool, but then they have to be in control of this. For this other things like I cannot be in, I rather like have like someone take the lead etc, etc. But it was literally like a session, of like sitting down and writing like doing like, proper homework.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, you bring up some really important things there. I think one of them is that often the conversations that we need to be having, are also with ourselves, and really looking inwards to be like, oh, what do I actually like? And what, yeah, what are my limits? But then also, you mentioned about conditions. That is so crucial, because there might be like, oh, yeah, I do enjoy this sex act, but these are the caveats. Like, you know, this time of day, or when I'm feeling in this kind of mood, if you know if this has happened that day, then I'm not going to be in the, in the headspace to be able to do that. And that is so important because it's not just about creating a list of like, this, I'm okay with, this I'm not okay with because it's like it, there is much more nuance there because I'll be like, if and but -
Anarella Martínez
Yeah, no, see it depends on how you feel. Like for me sometimes, when I when I meet a play partner, like I have a play partner that, he always makes appointments, like two weeks ahead, you know, and for me, like, I don't know, if in two weeks I'm gonna be into like a rope session or a spanking session. I don't know. So it's very, I mean, we have to be very aware of what we need, what we want, and how we feel. That's very important.
Lina Bembe
Yeah, exactly.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, like scheduling it in, be like, will I be in the mood for that, then?
Lina Bembe
But there's also like, some, like, even like, some like sex acts like require, like a certain like, level of skills, first. Because for example, yeah, what if you like to be tired, but then it's not that you're gonna like meet someone at a club, and then just like time -
Anarella Martínez
Tie me up, please.
Lina Bembe
Like your level of skills, or even level look levels of intimacy.
Hannah Witton
Yeah.
Lina Bembe
Or if you like to get fisted, and then it's like, I mean, not just like anyone. Or like, knowing how your body works, like, for example, like, people, sometimes people really like to have sex during their period, but then they are very aware that, okay, yeah, I really like it but then the kind of sex that I like to have it's very different to the kind of sex that I like to have like some other days of my cycle.
Hannah Witton
That's, yeah, that's so crucial. That will change for a lot of people. Slightly different topic here, but one that I'm really curious about. With Sex School, have you experienced any, like censorship and stuff on social media in terms of like, posting about it, advertising it? Like, what is that experience in like?
Anarella Martínez
It's been rough/
Lina Bembe
It's been so bad. So, so bad?
Anarella Martínez
Yeah, I mean, Lina is doing the social media and she's struggling a lot.
Lina Bembe
Yeah, I mean, it has been, our account has been shut down two times already. That run that running out with this third account on Instagram. This is our instagram, sex.school.hub. And, and the first, the very first account, like we had like over like, 35,000 followers. And it was shut down a couple of times before, but then we were always like, able to argue, hey, you know what, like, this account is about like, sex education. It should, it's not like showing like anything like no nudity, like we weren't even like showing like a typical like nipples or anything like that. We were keeping like
Hannah Witton
In the guidelines.
Lina Bembe
Yes. And yeah, a lot like that. Even for like a sexual explicit account. And we lost it in last September, and then we haven't, we haven't got we haven't gotten back ever since.
Hannah Witton
Oh no!
Lina Bembe
So we're like, okay, let's start with another one. And it was like the same story. I don't, when was the last posts that we, that we put that we -
Anarella Martínez
I think was nothing explicit. I don't remember. But wasn't, no, that was because of the troll.
Hannah Witton
Oh.
Lina Bembe
Oh, well, yeah apparently like what, yes, that's true. There was like that troll. There's like these like anti porn fanatic, that has been like taking that has been like,
Hannah Witton
Flagging all of your pictures and stuff.
Lina Bembe
Yeah, but also, like, he has been like harassing other sex workers. So he's been taking down like a number of accounts, and they took account, and they took down the account of like, Bishop Black, who's one of our performers and like, took him down, and they also reported us. And we have been like arguing like, to Instagram, like, hey, you know what, like, our account is educational, give it back, please. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And there has been no answer whatsoever.
Hannah Witton
That is so frustrating.
Lina Bembe
The more you're waiting part that we have been like making a case for what our work is. But the kind of contents that we give, which is like information, and of course, we're going to talk about sex education, you eventually have to put like the words porn, or masturbation, or sex, stuff like that. And I guess because of that, is that that we cannot get it back. So now we're on our third account, and then just like knowing that our days are pretty much numbered.
Hannah Witton
Oh, my goodness.
Lina Bembe
With Instagram, it's like hoping for the best.
Hannah Witton
There's so many people who I see on Instagram, who may content around sex, who have like backup accounts. And it's so wild that that is like normal for for people in this space.
Lina Bembe
Yes, it is, it is. And like, for example, also Facebook, for example, like, they didn't let us put like our, you know, our like Facebook address. They don't let us put us the word sex in it, it's forbidden. We cannot advertise there either.
Hannah Witton
There's just this complete fear of sexuality.
Lina Bembe
Yes, yes. And like seriously anything.
Anarella Martínez
I mean, we cannot even pay Google.
Lina Bembe
No, we cannot run like Google adverts, like Twitter. I guess that because we're like flagged as like 18 plus, the same like we don't have like visibility yet. So everywhere, everywhere on social media, it's like, just because like, if you're open about like working with sex, then you just like, don't you get like this, you're always like in danger of censorship, and you get like this, like, reduced visibility. Whereas like many other like, far more worrying issues are just like, allowed to exist over there.
Hannah Witton
Yeah! A lot of it is like just this double standard as well.
Anarella Martínez
Exactly.
Hannah Witton
I was wondering as well, what has the general response been to Sex School? Like from the community, from users?
Anarella Martínez
Very good, like by the community, the porn community, like, people really love it. And they really like what we are doing, and how, how we are going to giving credit also to the whole porn performers. Because I mean, like, normally, people don't really believe that porn performers have a word to say. So like, I think we are giving like we are doing a great job there. And I don't know, like right now I'm trying to have our films in other platforms, like Pink and White Productions and other ones. And they're very happy, like, because the sex, the educational approach, is very, very natural and realistic. And then from the customers, they also really love it. Like all the emails I'm getting, besides that we have some bugs in the website, is that they are very looking forward to the second season, that they are living alone, that is very smooth and how how they performers, they talk to each other, that it's very casual and very friendly. So they can really relate to them. And for them, it's easy to understand what is what is the topic of.
Hannah Witton
So you've got topics at the moment; you have threesomes, kissing, hook ups. And so what's coming in season two?
If COVID allowed us to shoot. Yes, we went to, one on solo sex, masturbation, get to know each other
Hannah Witton
That'll be good for lockdown, that's appropriate.
Anarella Martínez
Exactly! And then oral sex, we want to continue with anal, because we have already 101 on anal, so we want to have the the explicit, and also the explicit on squirting as well.
Hannah Witton
Oh, because you have a 101 on squirting, which is like talking and explaining it. Yeah, yeah.
Lina Bembe
Yeah. The same for anal, like it's like 101, like the discussion and so, so now there's gonna be like the practical dimension of those like two episodes
Hannah Witton
Or like a workshop, fantastic. I was wondering as well like, what you think of this, like, what can we learn from porn? What should we be learning from porn? And also, what shouldn't we be learning from porn?
Lina Bembe
Okay, I think that the most exciting part is like, what can we learn from porn? I think that's there is a lot to learn from porn, like, first of all that we choose to value it, because it's one of like, the very few means in which we have like, we can have access to explicit depictions of sexuality. You know, and being said such an important part of like everyone's lives, in whatever ways that could be. It's really important to like get more value to that. Not just like to project like any feelings of shame into it. And so in that sense, like people can like to actually be learning that porn, it's really important, that it's that it really matters, that it can go like really deep into our lives. And and also like porn can also like teach us like about the how, even these like in so many ways like that, the other, the opposite is claimed, I think porn can teach us a lot about like diversity in sex. About that diversity in bodies, diversity in desires, diversity in like, orientations, identities, and that, the very important part of that is that it can like give us like validation, you know, that it's so important that when you have like, when you have like, I don't know, if you have like a very specific like gender identity, if you have like very specific like abilities, you have, like very specific, like sexual, like proclivities that fall out of like, heteronormative like ways in which you're told to have like sex, which is basically like, heterosexual missionary. Everything that falls outside of that can give you like validation, if you are, if you are queer, if you are kinky, if you are fat -
Hannah Witton
Porn can often be like, the only place that you see your body, or your desires, like represented.
Lina Bembe
Exactly. And that can go like a really, really long way, especially if you are like marginalised in a certain way. Because like in your everyday life, you were told, like, you're like, treated like in hateful like discriminatory ways. And then you can have like that space in which you can like see someone else who looks like you, who like some similar things that you, and feel like a little bit of like, really validation like encouragement, of like continuing like being yourself, practising all those things that you are like, that you feel like that you are shamed for. And also, like porn can teach a lot about like how, like, there's also like plenty of like porn that shows like very explicitly like very explicitly questions of like safety, very explicitly questions of like consent, for example. And porn can also like be a way in which you can like learn from that in ways that are, like even if it's within the fantasy then ways there can be like playful, and ways that can be like far more normal. I think on the on Sex School on our like curated porn section, we have like a number of films in which the performer our shown how they negotiate their scenes, like in the most like natural possible way. There are other films in which like, they show like very explicitly, like, for example, like safety measures such as, like, the use of barrier protection, or like rope play having like, the safety seats or is at hand for example.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, and just having that like very clear in the scene.
Lina Bembe
Yeah, very clear in the scene, like very, like, the purpose of, and again, like that's something that can teach you a lot. And you can also like be like saying, I think I also like porn, they're like many genres that also like go like deep into, like, political issues, questions of like feminism, questions of racism, you know, so it's also about like, thinking about our lives, and how we relate to others and about society, and they have very important role that sex and sexuality plays with in it. Questions about our feeling like, of empowerment, you know, how like collectives or individuals that could be perceived as powerless, in so many of aspects can like finding ways of like, taking back power through sex.
Hannah Witton
Yeah
Lina Bembe
You know, so it's really, I think that it all boils down into like, regarding like, pornography as like something serious. And about like, also, as consumers, not expecting to be like spoon fed with, with the kind of like, porn that we that we watch. It's also, I think that it's also like consumers responsibility to like, do the research, you know?
Hannah Witton
Yeah.
Lina Bembe
I don't like these porn, okay, what? I'm very sure that there can be like, you know, like this. It's very funny, because there is like this funny rule that says, like, there's a porn for everything.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, there is.
Lina Bembe
I mean, there really is. Like, it's not, it's not just about the parody about the last Hollywood film, it's also about like, it can be like more diverse, like, bodies, desires, and sexual acts, and now even education. So I think also people should be like taking that like, more seriously, for themselves and take like, more seriously, how they research and how they find things that could be like appealing to them, or that can teach them something. Or even if people don't like porn and decide that porn isn't their thing at all, have like solid reasons for it. And not just like, repeat over and over again, the same old like cliches about the industry.
Anarella Martínez
Right, is what you're saying, no, like, you need to do a research and also to be able to see other kind of porn, also you need to pay for it, right?
Lina Bembe
Understand that, you know, this is like some job and that it's also like what people do it's, yeah, it's like actual very valid, very legitimate work, and if people asks for money for it, then you should be willing to pay. Or to support performers and like producers in the ways they ask you to.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, exactly, that's very important.
Anarella Martínez
When watching like very mainstream porn that is not bad, but you also need to be, you need to know that this porn is mostly fantasy and is not like, representing what is real intercourse, or a real experience. So then I mean, we can give here like a, like a number of different lists of different production company that people can research and look for.
Hannah Witton
Yeah. Do you have recommendations?
Anarella Martínez
Yeah.
Lina Bembe
Definitely. We have a lot.
Anarella Martínez
Yeah.
Lina Bembe
We know a lot!
Anarella Martínez
One I really like is, and you can find a lot of pornography, from different directors, is it Pink Label?
Lina Bembe
Pink Label.TV, yeah.
Hannah Witton
Oh, okay.
Lina Bembe
Oh, yeah, they also have like a series called Crash Pad.
Hannah Witton
Oh, I think I've heard of that.
Lina Bembe
Yeah, they're really good. That really, really good.
Anarella Martínez
And then if you are into gay, Noel Alejandro doing something very beautiful as well. Or something more artistic is Four Chambers for example. Then from the UK, like, I mean, I have plenty of names now, like making models also doing their own stuff. From Catalonia is called A porn for you, it's also doing interesting things. Very, very alternative.
Hannah Witton
I love this. I'll get hold of those links from you later. We will we'll put them in the show notes for listeners. Erm, thank you both so much for chatting with me. This has been so enlightening and it's just amazing to hear you being so passionate about porn and also about sex education. Where can people find you, and where can they find Sex School?
Lina Bembe
Okay, like the, our website is sexschoolhub.com, and that's the best and easiest way to find us. Because as I was, we mentioned before, like social media it's a question of like existing there we'd like our days being numbers. Better to go like straight to the source Yes, sexschoolhub.com. And on Twitter, it's like the same handled @SexSchoolHub and on their Instagram. It's like sex.school.hub. And Facebook, it is - it is it's weird, but if you go like either to Twitter or Instagram that you can find also our link tree. And just like better to check out like the website, like straight there and see like, if you like what you see. And yes, we're also having like these during like these quarantine times are having like some discounts
Anarella Martínez
35% discount on all our products. So instead of paying 55 euros for the season, you pay 35 euros.
Lina Bembe
And then you get access to like the whole season.
Anarella Martínez
And to all the films from the porn itself, from the ethical porn.
Lina Bembe
Yes, the curated porn section where you can we can where we also explain like, okay, you have a this film. This is what you can learn from it, you know, so it's not just not throwing the films but also like giving like an analysis of what can you learn from porn.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, I love analysing porn. One of my faves, watching it and then analysing it. Thank you both so much, it's been an absolute pleasure talking with you. And thank you guys for listening. Bye. Thank you so much for listening to Doing It. If you enjoyed it, I would really appreciate it if you left a rating and a review. You can find show notes at DoingItPodcast.co.uk and do go follow us on social media and I'll catch you in the next episode. Bye.
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