Getting Married Young with Sierra Schultzzie | Transcript

Find the episode shownotes here!

Sierra Schultzzie 

And she was like, “But Sierra, if you don't get married, how can you give me grandchildren?” And I was just like, “Grandma, I don't have to be married to have children, like, silly Grandma.” Yeah. And she was like, “Sierra, oh my gosh.” I think for a long time, I didn't want to get married because I had this idea that marriage was, you know, gonna lock me down into this life of domestic servitude.

Hannah Witton 

Must obey.

Hannah Witton 

Welcome to Doing It with me, Hannah Witton, where we talk all things, sex, relationships, dating, and our bodies.

Hannah Witton 

Hello. So since the last time we spoke, my new book, The Hormone Diaries: The Bloody Truth about Our Periods, was published. You can get it in all good bookstores, and online, and I would highly recommend you checking it out. Please let me know what you think. It is all about periods, and contraception, and our hormones, and there's lots of stories from me in there, but also loads of stories from other people who have periods, and just their experience with it. A lot of heartbreak, and frustration, and also a lot of fun. So that's my little announcement, and I just want to thank everyone who has bought the book so far, and tagged me in pictures on Instagram and stuff. Thank you, thank you so much. I really hope that you enjoy the book and that you find some comfort or usefulness in it.

Hannah Witton 

The other very quick bit of news that I'm also excited about is I may have gotten doingit.com. doingit.com, Yes, you heard that correct. So you know, just go ahead, put that in your browser, doingit.com. Check it out. I can't believe I got that domain. Oh my goodness. On to the actual episode.

Hannah Witton 

So this is another one that I recorded whilst I was in California, this time in San Diego, and it is with the amazing Sierra Schultzzie. Sierra is a friend of mine, she is a YouTuber, she does a lot of fashion and body confidence videos, mostly for mid size girls. So somewhere in between of skinny and plus size. We also did some videos together which are out now if you want to check them out. We did a video on my YouTube channel testing out different chub rub products. And on Sierra's channel, we did one trying out bikinis from different stores in the US, which was extremely hit and miss, especially as I am slim, but with big boobs, so my proportions are all off when it comes to bikinis. The videos are very fun and silly, definitely check them out. So in this episode, we talk about the fact that Sierra got married young, I mean young by my standards anyway. She got married at 21. We talk about her being a Christian, and also being a liberal, and then also body positivity and sex, of course. I really hope that you enjoy this episode.

Hannah Witton 

Thanks for having me, and letting me stay in your house.

Sierra Schultzzie 

Well you're having me on the podcast. I'm having you in the house. So it's kind of a reciprocal relationship.

Hannah Witton 

A switcheroo. We we just had our own personal postmates, your husband went and got us Starbucks.

Sierra Schultzzie 

We were gonna order actual Postmates, and then Stephen was like, I could just go get it for you.

Hannah Witton 

Yeah.

Sierra Schultzzie 

And he's done that like quite a few times and driven us places, so five stars.

Hannah Witton 

Five star Uber, five star Postmates, five star husband?

Sierra Schultzzie 

Yeah.

Hannah Witton 

So the reason I wanted to get you on this podcast is because I feel like you and me are very similar in terms of our values. But then, so different in terms of like, our experiences and choices, and yeah, I don't know, it's so interesting. So like, you're very liberal.

Sierra Schultzzie 

Yes.

Hannah Witton 

You are 23 years old.

Hannah Witton 

Mmm hmm.

Hannah Witton 

You have a husband.

Sierra Schultzzie 

Also true.

Hannah Witton 

Husband. And how old were you when you got married?

Sierra Schultzzie 

I was 21 when I got married, I was 19 when I got engaged.

Hannah Witton 

Wow.

Sierra Schultzzie 

And Steven is three years older than me. So I think that also contributed to both of us being ready, in that I feel like I definitely matured a little bit faster and was ready for that. But also, part of it was, you know, of course we love each other, and we wanted to be together forever. But also it was very practical, like he had just graduated. And so -

Hannah Witton 

I love that.

Sierra Schultzzie 

Yeah, don't worry.

Hannah Witton 

Practical.

Sierra Schultzzie 

It was practical. And we wanted to, you know, we didn't know what was gonna happen with his job. We didn't know if he was gonna have to move to Seattle, or New York, or if he was going to stay here where we live in San Diego. And he was you know, like, oh, you know, wherever I go, will you come with me? And I was like, not without a ring.

Hannah Witton 

Like, I need some insurance.

Sierra Schultzzie 

Yeah, yeah. Like give me that like commitment, you know, before I agree that I would follow you anywhere. Cuz you know doing YouTube, I could do that job pretty much anywhere, which is great.

Hannah Witton 

But he's stayed in San Diego.

Sierra Schultzzie 

So it worked out, but we still got married.

Hannah Witton 

Oh, that's interesting. I didn't know that was like, why, I guess.

Sierra Schultzzie 

Yeah, I think so, I think a lot of people look at me getting married at 21 and are like, oh my gosh, that's so young. How did you even know? And I'm like, well, we both were in our careers, we lived together, we like both, we had the full support of both of our families who were like, you guys are the perfect balance for each other because we're complete opposites. But we really like -my family thinks Stephen's too good for me. His family thinks I'm too good for him. Because they both see, you know, the people closest to you see all your flaws, and then they see how much each other's partner changes that, and brings out the good, and so I think Steven and I sat down to tell my parents, we wanted to get engaged, like six months before we actually did. And my dad goes, well, why not just do it now?

Sierra Schultzzie 

How long were you together before you got engaged?

Sierra Schultzzie 

So we got together when I was 17. So we'd been together for about two and a half years when -

Hannah Witton 

Oh my God, Dan and I have been together two and a half years.

Sierra Schultzzie 

Really?

Hannah Witton 

 Yeah.

Sierra Schultzzie 

Oh.

Hannah Witton 

But yeah, but Dan and I are both 27. So yeah. So like different, different trajectories. Yeah, I guess. And also, like, even in the US, 21 is young to get married, because we looked it up. Like we were looking at the average age. And what was in the US? It was like 28.

Sierra Schultzzie 

28.

Hannah Witton 

And then in the UK, the average age to get married is 31.

Sierra Schultzzie 

Yeah, I think it was like 31.8 or something.

Hannah Witton 

Yeah. But was there a lot of like shock from your friends or family of like, why are you doing this now?

Sierra Schultzzie 

You know, I think the people close to us were not surprised at all. Because, like I said, we'd already been living together. It was like that, in the US is pretty common that like, once you finish school, then it's kind of like, okay, like, where is this going? What's next? Like, that is kind of, especially if you've got together, like Steven and I did, before we went to school, that it's kind -

Hannah Witton 

I feel like there's not that same kind of pressure. I feel like there's the assumption that the one that you met in school.

Sierra Schultzzie 

Is not the one.

Hannah Witton 

It's like, cool, that's cute, but like, you're going to break up.

Sierra Schultzzie 

That's how it is here for people who meet in high school. Like I have, one of my best friends just married her high school sweetheart, and she is pregnant with her first little one. But it is kind of that assumption of like, wow, you're still together? Like, you know, how did you even know, but -

Hannah Witton 

That's totally an anomaly. Like, I know, a few, I don't know, personally, but like some famous people who have been with, like, spouse since they were like, 16/17. Yeah. But it's always an anomaly.

Sierra Schultzzie 

Yeah. Oh, absolutely. And I'm an anomaly, in getting married at 21, and being very happy.

Hannah Witton 

And being happy!

Sierra Schultzzie 

But there is this idea that if you get married young, that I mean, it's not even an idea, it's proven. If you get married young, your marriage is less likely to succeed. And so I think that -

Hannah Witton 

I mean, I could have guessed that but -

Sierra Schultzzie 

Right. But I think part of that comes from people who get married young and kind of on a whim. I think when we're young, we're more impulsive -

Hannah Witton 

But you were practical.

Sierra Schultzzie 

I was practical, we did it for tax reasons. Just kidding.

Hannah Witton 

I mean, my parents did it for a visa reason. But they already had two children. Yeah.

Sierra Schultzzie 

Steven's parents got married because they wanted Steven to have their same last name.

Hannah Witton 

Yeah, I mean, people get married for all sorts of reasons, not just love.

Sierra Schultzzie 

Yeah, and I was scared. Honestly, I was a little scared. Like, the weeks leading up to the wedding, I was like, you know, is this the right decision? Like everyone does. Like, that's very normal. And there has not been a single day since I got married, where I'm like, where I'm not like, this is the best thing I ever did. We talk about that all the time, where I'm like, wow, getting married was so awesome for us. Like, obviously not for everyone. And I'm not going to be the one who's like, get married, like no matter what.

Hannah Witton 

It will solve all of your relationship problems.

Sierra Schultzzie 

Of course, and then have a baby and like, everything's fine. But like, no, for us, it really was like, the best thing and I just love having like, a life partner, which obviously you can have that in, regardless of if you're married or not. But I think for us, it was, it was that like, locked in security of like, this is my spouse for life.

Hannah Witton 

 Yeah.

Sierra Schultzzie 

 And, you know, shortly after that, we bought a house together and like, we want to have kids, and so I think for us getting married has just been like, amazing.

Hannah Witton 

So how do you reconcile, here's the cynic in me, coming out -

Sierra Schultzzie 

Please do.

Hannah Witton 

How do you reconcile this idea that you're getting married forever, and this is the person you're gonna be with forever. And like I obviously, I believe that everyone who gets married believes that, oh, this is for life, this is forever -

Sierra Schultzzie 

Of course.

Hannah Witton 

But 50% of marriages end in divorce, like how do you reconcile those two things?

Sierra Schultzzie 

Good question. I think for me, it's about growing as you go. Like, you are not going to be the same person that you are now in 30 years, regardless of how old you were when you get married. And I think for Steven and I, it's always having open communication, and making sure that if something isn't going great, that we talk about that, and address that before it becomes a big issue. Because I think that is, I mean, that that is kind of why a lot of marriages don't work is there's not that communication. People grow apart, and I think for us, it's continuing to grow together, and continuing that communication so that we both make sure like, everything's good, and we address the little issues before they become big issues.

Hannah Witton 

Yeah. And this is the thing, like, no one knows what they're doing. Everyone's just making it up as you go along, and just like hoping you make the right decision.

Sierra Schultzzie 

Right.

Hannah Witton 

And, yeah, that's the way that I think about it.

Sierra Schultzzie 

Yeah, I think, you know, if you got married at 60, and that also couldn't work out. If you get married at 20, that also couldn't work out. I think it's less about age, more about maturity, more about stability, and more about -

Hannah Witton 

Compatibility.

Sierra Schultzzie 

Ccompatibility. And I think for Steven and I, when we moved in together, we were - we were serious, but it wasn't like, we're getting married. Like it was just like, oh, we've been together for a while, let's move in. And within about two weeks of moving in together, we were like, oh, this works, like I could do this forever.

Hannah Witton 

Yeah, you kind of learn a lot about a person when you're spending so much time and proximity with them.

Sierra Schultzzie 

Yeah, it's like, oh, I don't hate you after spending every waking hour together. Wow, this is -

Hannah Witton 

I'm not bored of you yet.

Sierra Schultzzie 

Yeah, this is cool. And I think shortly after we moved in together is when we kind of realised like, yeah, I think I think marriage is a good, good path for us.

Hannah Witton 

Nice, because you also get a lot of, I guess people assuming that one of the reasons you got married was so that you could have sex, because you're a Christian.

Sierra Schultzzie 

I am a Christian. And as you introduced in the beginning, I'm kind of an anomaly in the Christian community, but less so than people think. I think people like me are more common. But I know I will get backlash for the things that I say, because there are Christians who believe that you can only be a Christian if you are, you believe this, and this, and this, and this. And so I think a lot of people like me are kind of forced into silence. But I'm a Christian, but I lived with my partner before marriage. I don't like the idea that, like, you should be getting married so you can have sex. And I'm, I'm pro choice, I'm more liberal, I do have my own issues with organised religion, but I am still a Christian at the end of the day.

Hannah Witton 

Yeah.

Sierra Schultzzie 

And I think a lot of people have trouble with those nuances and being like, oh, you're a Christian, but you don't fit into this box of what a Christian is supposed to be.

Hannah Witton 

Yeah, I feel like, being from the UK, we have this stereotypical, like idea of what like an American Christian is like.

Sierra Schultzzie 

What is it? I want to know.

Hannah Witton 

Like it's all Westboro Baptist Church, like that.

Sierra Schultzzie 

Oh.

Hannah Witton 

Like that's like -

Sierra Schultzzie 

Oh my gosh.

Hannah Witton 

And like, obviously, rationally, we know that's not the case.

Sierra Schultzzie 

Of course.

Hannah Witton 

But I think also in the UK, we like to think we're better than you. I mean, and so it's easy to -

Sierra Schultzzie 

You have healthcare.

Hannah Witton 

So yeah, that helps. And it's, I think it's easy for us to think that when we just kind of like lump these crazy American conservative Christians. But then actually, a lot of my friends in the UK who are Christian are that same kind of like, liberal, like some of them do believe in no sex before marriage for for themselves -

Sierra Schultzzie 

But they're not going to force it on someone else.

Hannah Witton 

But not all of them do, it's interesting.

Sierra Schultzzie 

Yeah. My Church calls those people Jerks for Jesus. It's people who are masquerading their faith as a way to highlight their bigotry, aka Jerks for Jesus. So yeah, I'm, I hate and that's another reason that for a really long time, and still now, I'm hesitant to talk about my faith online. Because when you say I'm a Christian, there are so many negative ideas that I don't want to be associated with. Even one time, I posted on my Instagram story, like, oh, Sunday outfit for church, and someone's like, I thought you supported the LGBT community. And I was like, I do, like -

Hannah Witton 

Yeah.

Sierra Schultzzie 

Because I'm, I'm going to church, that doesn't mean that I'm not an ally to the queer community.

Hannah Witton 

And I think it's such a complicated topic, because so much oppression of the LGBT community has been because of the church, and because of religion, and so I can understand why someone -

Sierra Schultzzie 

Oh, absolutely.

Hannah Witton 

- absolutely would have like, a problem with that, of like, do you see all of these issues.

Sierra Schultzzie 

I have a problem with that. And that's why actually, for a long time, if someone would be like, are you a Christian? I'd be like, no, I'm a follower of Jesus.

Hannah Witton 

Yeah.

Sierra Schultzzie 

Because I hate that that label comes with so many things. And that's something I'm still trying to reconcile. And that's something I'm trying to actively undo, and I think the church I go to is very, like progressive. And I think the church that I go to is really actively trying to undo that. And we have, like, an active queer community, within our church, and like, are really trying to change what people think about Christians in terms of social issues.

Hannah Witton 

Do you think that your faith had anything to do with also getting married younger?

Sierra Schultzzie 

I think maybe in a slight way, just because I have a real value for marriage, because I think that kind of comes from my faith, and my community, and I look at marriage as like this amazing, wonderful thing, which I think a lot of people -

Hannah Witton 

Ooo, that's interesting, because I feel like if you had that kind of idea about marriage, you're setting yourself up for failure, because you have these, like huge expectations, like marriage is gonna be the most amazing. And like, so far for you, that's what it's been. So that's like, phew.

Sierra Schultzzie 

Yeah.

Hannah Witton 

But like, what if it isn't? And that you get hyped up to be this incredible thing.

Sierra Schultzzie 

Well, I think when I say this incredible thing, I don't mean it's gonna be perfect. I mean, it is having someone to lean on in life. And I think that like, it is having someone to grow with, and like having that locked in commitment makes it easier to express, at least for me, like, what I want to do in life, and where I want to go in life, and knowing that no matter what I choose that I will have that person with me, and him knowing the same. And so I think it's less that like I had these expectations that everything's gonna be happy, fun, sunshine, rainbow time, and more, that I have this.

Hannah Witton 

But that's what I signed up.

Sierra Schultzzie 

Yeah, that's what I that's what I thought when I signed the marriage certificate. But that I had this, um, this expectation of commitment. And this, I have a real respect for marriage, and I think that I knew, I knew I wanted to get married. But I actually thought I wasn't gonna get married until my 30s for a long time.

Hannah Witton 

Oh.

Sierra Schultzzie 

And I also told my whole family I was never gonna have children, which has now changed, I do want children.

Hannah Witton 

What, um, like why did you think those things?

Sierra Schultzzie 

Um, I think I had a real issue with ba ba da dah, the patriarchy, and the institution of marriage, the idea of ownership. I hated the idea of being locked into this life of domestic servitude and -

Hannah Witton 

Must obey.

Sierra Schultzzie 

Yeah, giving up my life and my career. I always wanted to have a career like I always knew that I used to want to, like go into business and be like a CEO, which -

Hannah Witton 

Oh my God.

Sierra Schultzzie 

I guess is kind of what we do.

Hannah Witton 

But you know what, that's so funny because I feel like you me are really similar in that area of our lives. And I remember, as a kid, saying to my mom that I like I didn't know what I wanted to be when I was older, all I knew is that I wanted to wear clip clopy shoes, and have a clipboard, and boss people around -

Sierra Schultzzie 

That was so me. See my favourite thing, I used to love to like shock my older relatives about my liberal college kid views. I remember coming home for Christmas when I was like, 18, and my grandma being like, oh, like when you get married, and I was like, "Oh, I'm never getting married." And she was like, "But Sierra, if you don't get married, how can you give me grandchildren?" And I was just like, "Grandma, I don't have to be married to have children like, silly Grandma."

Hannah Witton 

Shock!

Sierra Schultzzie 

Yeah. And she was like, "Sierra, oh my gosh." I just like, I think, for a long time, I didn't want to get married because I had this idea that marriage was like, you know, gonna lock me down. And yeah, and then I met Stephen, who was this like, wonderful, liberal, like, awesome person who believed that marriage is partnership, and marriage is like teamwork. And I was like, oh, okay.

Hannah Witton 

Oh, I like that. It's teamwork. Yeah, it is. Having a companion.

Sierra Schultzzie 

Yes. And you don't have to be married to do that.

Hannah Witton 

No, that's true. My parents were together for 10 years, had two children -

Sierra Schultzzie 

Yep.

Hannah Witton 

- before they got married. And that was because my dad got a job in the States and my mum couldn't come with him unless they were married. They were like, "We have two children together?" Like yes, but do you have a marriage certificate?

Sierra Schultzzie 

Practical

Hannah Witton 

Yeah. Practical, practical reason. So I wanted to kind of move on a little bit.

Sierra Schultzzie 

Yeah.

Hannah Witton 

Um, so you make a lot of YouTube videos about fashion and body positivity.

Sierra Schultzzie 

That I do.

Hannah Witton 

And I think they're amazing, obviously. But like, how did you get to where you are?

Sierra Schultzzie 

Yeah.

Hannah Witton 

 In terms of like how you feel about your body, to the extent that you can, like, be in your underwear, and in bikinis, like in YouTube videos, in front of like, hundreds of thousands of people and being like, hey, I love my body. My body is great.

Sierra Schultzzie 

Yeah, I think for me, it's twofold. First, it's getting to the point where I'm comfortable with my own body, and then getting to the point where I'm comfortable sharing that. So I think getting to the point where I'm comfortable with my own body was just so I went through, I lost a lot of weight before I went to college, and that was the most insecure I've ever been in my life.

Hannah Witton 

It's so funny how you hear that all the time. Like oh, when I was at my smallest, I was the least happy.

Sierra Schultzzie 

I always  had this idea in my mind of this magic number, that would be my goal weight, and I would be confident, and stunning, and I would wear a swimsuit, and I would do all this in college. And I got that weight, and I could not have been more insecure. And then it was, okay, I'm, I'm no longer, I'm doing quotations, "fat", but now I am, this is wrong. And this is wrong. And this is wrong. And this is wrong. And I didn't want to go anywhere, I didn't want to do anything because I was embarrassed of my body. And now it's really hard for me to look back on those photos and be like, but I think that, for me, was the turning point of losing weight is not the key to fixing your confidence.

Hannah Witton 

No.

Sierra Schultzzie 

In fact, unless you do the mental work, it can make it worse.

Hannah Witton 

Yeah, so I had like a number in my head as well. But my number wasn't like cuz I - I've never tried to lose weight. Like I'm quite slim.

Sierra Schultzzie 

Yeah.

Hannah Witton 

But my number was like an upper number that was like, if I get over this, I'm going to be devastated.

Sierra Schultzzie 

Yeah.

Hannah Witton 

So it was kind of like the other way around. And oh my God, I surpassed that number years ago. Because just as you get older, your body changes. And this is the thing that I didn't quite realise. Like when you're a teenager, like, generally, you're going to be probably more slim than you'll be in your 20s, because I don't know what happens, you go through some kind of second puberty, where your body just goes, okay, you thought you're a woman then, no, you're a woman. Like now you're a real woman, here, have all of this extra weight.

Sierra Schultzzie 

Yeah.

Hannah Witton 

Yeah. And I, to be honest, like, I don't weigh myself anymore. I actually have no idea how much I weigh.

Sierra Schultzzie 

Yeah. Yeah, I think and back that I used to weigh myself like multiple times a day -

Hannah Witton 

Same, like every single day being like, please don't hit that number, please don't hit that number.

Sierra Schultzzie 

And I look back at that person, and I'm so sad for her. Because I'm like, that was everything I thought I wanted, and it made me so much more miserable. And I think after that, and after realising, maybe this isn't what makes me comfortable, and this isn't what makes me valuable as a person. Yeah, I started to, like I said, I found the online community of sex positivity, feminism, and body positivity kind of all at the same time. And that's when I, for a brief period of time, was a women's studies major and wanted to be a sex educator.

Hannah Witton 

Oh, I love that, I had no idea!

Sierra Schultzzie 

Yeah, I had this professor, and she wrote for this women's website called Hello Giggles.

Hannah Witton 

Oh, I know Hello Giggles

Sierra Schultzzie 

Yeah. And and she kind of like took me under her wing for that semester, and was like, kind of like, allowing me to dip my toe into the world of online feminism, sex positivity, body positivity. And that's when I really realised like, wow, there's this whole community of women online who are fighting to go against diet culture, and go against like, body shame. And I felt like, oh my gosh, there is so much wrong with the way that I think and talk about my body. And that is when I kind of started to change the way I value my body, and actually, it was only about a year after that, that I started making videos about body positivity myself. I was really at the beginning of my journey, and it is - it's a good thing and it's a bad thing. Because sometimes I look at my old videos, and I'm like, oh, I would not say that now.

Hannah Witton 

But you can kind of see your your progress of you like learning about these things, and learning about being careful about certain kinds of language. And just like as you get more and more informed on the topic.

Sierra Schultzzie 

Yeah.

Hannah Witton 

I think it's important to see that as well, because I've got videos, this like exactly the same where I'm like, oh, I wouldn't use that language anymore. But it's not in a way that like I cringe, it's more in a way of just like, oh, that's interesting, I've changed.

Sierra Schultzzie 

I feel bad for myself. But I'm like, oh, sweetie, no, no, no, like, don't think about your body that way. Don't talk about yourself that way. And I think, so first for me, it was getting to the point where I value myself not because of my weight, and that I realised that losing weight is not the key to confidence and happiness. And then second was being like, okay, my body looks different, I've gained weight, and I am learning to love it. And now I want to share that online. And for me, it is being that person I needed when I was a teenager.

Hannah Witton 

Yeah.

Sierra Schultzzie 

Like I didn't find that message until I was in my early 20s, late teens. And I wish that when I was like 14 and being like, you know, crying in the dressing room because I wasn't the size of my friends. I wish I could have had someone just to be like, hey, that's okay. You're not valued by this. Like, it's no big deal. And so for me, I mean my audience is like mostly in their 20s and 30s. But I get people in their 50s who come up to me, or message me and are like, I am 50, I'm 60, and I'm for the first time accepting my body the way it is. And I'm like, I'm grateful.

Hannah Witton 

It's exhausting, hating your body.

Sierra Schultzzie 

It is.

Hannah Witton 

Like imagine having 50 or 60 years of feeling that way, you like, you'd just be so tired.

Sierra Schultzzie 

Yeah. How do you have time to do anything else other than hate your body?

Hannah Witton 

Yeah, that's one of the things I always see like people posting about online of how like, the patriarchy makes us preoccupied with things like body checking, and like sex shaming ourselves -

Sierra Schultzzie 

So we can't get busy tearing down the patriarchy.

Hannah Witton 

Exactly. We're just like, preoccupied thinking about these absolutely ridiculous, harmful things for ourselves, and not going out there and like being ourselves. Yeah. And fucking shit up, basically.

Sierra Schultzzie 

Yeah, it's an issue. And and I'm, I'm so excited to see how far body positivity has spread. And even with, like, mainstream companies, like embracing that, and that's another thing, you know, capitalism.

Hannah Witton 

Yeah. But it's on the one hand, you're like, oh, this is good.

Sierra Schultzzie 

It's representation.

Hannah Witton 

Yeah, that these companies are getting on board with this movement. But the,m on the other hand, you're like, well, actually, because body positivity, and feminism, and sex positivity are like mainstream and popular now, it's like, almost brand suicide if you don't jump on.

Sierra Schultzzie 

And they're almost cashing in on the social movement.

Hannah Witton 

Yeah. But then I'm like, would I rather they didn't do it at all, you know?

Sierra Schultzzie 

And I struggle with that, as someone who's, you know, an online figure in the body positive community, I get a lot of brands reaching out to me and wanting me to be their PR save. So a certain company that has, you know, a certain underwear company that's had a lot of issues in the US for saying that trans models and plus size models are not part of their campaign. After that, they started trying to fix their PR, and they reached out to people like me, and other body positive influences. And to that, I'm like, hard no, I will not be your PR save, you need to do the work. But there are other companies who, you know, may have had some issues in the past, but have been actively working to change that, and I am happy to be that representation. Like, I am happy to be that person, if the brand has been putting in the work, to be like, this is awesome. Thank you for doing this, and I would love to be part of this campaign to show different, more diverse bodies.

Hannah Witton 

Yeah. And I think one of the other things you have to pay attention to, like somehow figure out, is actually not necessarily who is the face of the brand, and like who is advertising the clothing, or the products, or whatever is like, not the actual models that you see, or the influences that you see talking about it. But who's the CEO? Who is their head of like marketing?

Sierra Schultzzie 

 Like what causes are they donating to, behind the scenes.

Hannah Witton 

Yeah, like do, is their staff diverse as well? Because usually, if you start there with a diverse staff, it will like naturally create more diverse, more inclusive products and marketing campaigns.

Sierra Schultzzie 

Absolutely.

Hannah Witton 

Rather than like trying to do it the other way around. Because then it doesn't always like, it doesn't always get it right.

Sierra Schultzzie 

Yeah. In fact, it rarely gets it right.

Hannah Witton 

Yeah, I don't know if you if you heard about this thing that happened in the UK recently. So one of my previous podcast guests, Scarlet Curtis, last year, she published a book called Feminists Don't Wear Pink, and Other Lies. It's like an anthology, and it's got lots of different authors in it. And there was a massive display of it in Topshop, on Oxford Street in London. And so they had like this huge thinge, like Feminists Don't Wear Pink in Topshop with the book and everything. And the CEO of Topshop, or the owner, who is this very, like, not great guy, came in and basically was like, take that down.

Sierra Schultzzie 

No.

Hannah Witton 

And obviously absolute uproar. So like, and then it's really interesting because this really anti feminist man owns Topshop, and yet Topshop is selling t shirts that will say, like, feminist on it, and things like that. And so it's like, well, how do you, how can you reconcile, like, those, those two things? Like should you buy a feminist top from Topshop? Like, how do you feel about that? You know what I mean

Sierra Schultzzie 

Yeah, and I mean, we had something I guess somewhat similar to that. I mean more in the idea of like, where is the money going, and what is it funding, with Coachella this year. Because Coachella is owned by a man who contributes to a lot of anti LGBT and anti, you know, women's reproductive rights like representatives in our government. And -

Hannah Witton 

But he's like, profiting from Coachella, and then if he's spending that money on those causes.

Sierra Schultzzie 

So there was a big push to, to not go to Coachella, but then there was kind of a push against that being like, here are all the other places you shop, where there CEOs are also doing the same thing. Like Target, WalMart, like, there were all these big, like chain stores that we all go to, and actually most of those CEOs are doing the same.

Hannah Witton 

Here's the thing, we can't escape it.

Sierra Schultzzie 

Yeah.

Hannah Witton 

We cannot escape it. Have you watched The Good Place?

Sierra Schultzzie 

No, but my, my producer, Skyler talks about all the time, she loves it.

Hannah Witton 

So you should watch it. But for listeners, there's, it's all about, like how to be a good person, basically. And there's this whole bit in like the most recent season about because of everything that humans have created, and the way all of our different institutions, and structures, like connect with each other, and relate to one another. Even if you, as an individual, are making like a consciously good choice is like, oh, but then that thing gives to that organisation, and then and that person is profiting from it, and they're donating money to this thing. And actually, that's contributing to climate change, and then these animals are dying. And so it's like, you make this like one good choice, and it's like, but all of these bad things happen because of it. And yeah, it's like, oh, wow, yeah.

Sierra Schultzzie 

So how do you think we combat that? Like, with the Topshop thing, and the Coachella thing in particular? Do you boycott that? but then you kind of have to boycott everything else.

Hannah Witton 

Exactly. That's the thing. And also boycotts only work if everybody does it. Otherwise, you just get a few people not going to Coachella and yeah, and then other people are gonna, like Coachella is still gonna sell out

Sierra Schultzzie 

Yeah.

Hannah Witton 

I think, recently, I do kind of think we've been putting way too much emphasis on, like, what individuals can do. Like, I do understand that, like, if enough individuals like recycle plastic, then that will help, or if enough people are vegetarian, sorry, I still eat meat, but I can't like - that's one thing that I'm like, I can't do that. I'm sorry. Um, but you know, like, if enough people do it, and like, that's great, you know, if you if you're gonna make those personal choices, cool, great. That, you know, in some miniscule way, it will help. But, for me, it like it has to be governments, and it has to be corporations.

Sierra Schultzzie 

Well, and I think the other issue is when we get into that talk about like, individual choice of trying to make choices that help our world, we need everyone making small choices, not a small amount of people making every right choice. Because I think, especially online, we get into this all or nothing culture where like, I care a lot about the environment, and so I don't eat meat. That's one of the things that I try to do to combat my carbon footprint.

Hannah Witton 

Yeah.

Sierra Schultzzie 

But - and I try not to shop a lot of fast fashion, but a lot of my videos are trying certain brands. So I do still buy items from those brands that are not always ethically produced. And I think a lot of people, I know a lot of people are like, well how can you do this if you also do this, and it's like, I am trying to do more little things like you said, you're not a vegetarian, but that doesn't mean that everything else you do, like the everything else you do is not valid. And I think that's how we get to the point of extremism. I recently found fell down a hole on YouTube of extreme minimalism, and it made me realise if you really want to combat everything, how little you would live.

Hannah Witton 

You're going to be miserable.

Sierra Schultzzie 

So there was this there was this video I saw, it was like my minimalist house tour. This woman had no furniture, she had three shirts, and one pair of pants. She had no like food in her kitchen other than fruit, because that's the only thing that doesn't come in wrappers, and then she composted the peel of like the banana, and the orange. She didn't use shampoo or conditioner, she had one bar of like, ethically produced soap that she would wash everything with and I'm like, if that is your life mission, thank you, like good for you.

Hannah Witton 

Yeah.

Sierra Schultzzie 

But I can't do all of those things. So I'm just gonna try my best to make a lot of good little decisions, because I'm not going to get rid of everything. I haven't washed my hair with a bar of soap.

Hannah Witton 

 Yeah, no, fair enough and like, same. I'm also not going to do that. But yeah, I think all of that stuff is really interesting and also what you said about that being this mentality online of it like it has to be all or all or nothing.

Sierra Schultzzie 

Yeah.

Hannah Witton 

But also like you were telling me yesterday about how when you do buy items of clothing for videos, you have a Poshmark, which in the UK is like Depop, where you then sell it on, and then it can have like another life of its own. And so because I try and be as sustainable, or ethical, or whatever, as possible with like my fashion purchases, but one of the things that I like I'm okay with, in terms of my own, like morality I guess, is still buying fast fashion, but like less. And as long as I know that that thing is going to like get like hundreds of wears -

Sierra Schultzzie 

Yes.

Hannah Witton 

Like I'm gonna I'm gonna wear this like, so so so much. And then for you, it's like, oh, I'm selling this on, and then it's gonna - like its lifespan is going to be even longer.

Sierra Schultzzie 

Yeah. And I think that made me feel a lot better about making videos where I'm trying a lot of different brands, because a) the reason I do that is to try to show - to try to give women an idea, especially curvy midsize plus size women, an idea of how something will fit before they buy it. So to hopefully help lessen that waste on that as well.

Hannah Witton 

Yeah. So one of my friends in the UK, she, she didn't know that we knew each other.

Hannah Witton 

Oh, really?

Sierra Schultzzie 

Wait, who?

Sierra Schultzzie 

Her name's Sana, Books and Quils. And she basically said, she was just like, oh, yeah, I watched this girl, Sierra, because we're like, the same size and so I was like, oh my God, I know her.

Hannah Witton 

Yeah, I think it's great because, and I had this trouble as well. Like, I do not look like mannequins, I do not look like models, and so I'm like, where are the, where are the like, short, petite, busty models? So I can see how those clothes will look on my body. Like I really, if anyone has any recommendations of people with Depop shops that have the same body type as me, that would be great because then I can just like, buy all of their clothes.

Sierra Schultzzie 

Aw!

Sierra Schultzzie 

Yeah, and I think like, websites like Depop and Poshmark are great because like, I used to donate all the clothes I bought for videos that I wasn't going to wear to a women's shelter nearby. And then I was talking to my editor, because my editor is like her life mission is like ending fast fashion.

Hannah Witton 

Yeah.

Sierra Schultzzie 

And I was like, you know, this is what I'm doing. What do you think? And she's like, well, actually, if you sell clothes, they're definitely guaranteed to get a lot of use, and a lot of wear, and then increase the lifespan of that item.

Hannah Witton 

Yeah. And then it might still get donated at the end of that.

Sierra Schultzzie 

And if you donate, only like 60% of items that are donated are actually used, the rest are discarded. And so I was like, oh, wow, like I didn't, I didn't realise that. So instead, I'm just donating to the women's shelter with money, and then selling the clothes on Poshmark because I know that they're getting a longer lifespan.

Hannah Witton 

Yeah. And I again, it's like, every, every little helps. But I'm still very much like, come on governments and corporations like you need to like step up the game. Because, like individuals have, you know, we're doing our best.

Sierra Schultzzie 

I mean, my dad's an environmental psychologist, and he's not a vegetarian. And a lot of people would look at that and be like, how can you be that but it's like, he also drives a rechargeable car, so that's decreasing the carbon footprint. Like everyone has these little things that they're doing, and what we really need, like you said, is the government's, and the corporations, to come in and be like, make that big push.

Hannah Witton 

Yeah, they're the ones with the money and the power. This has gone on, like such a tangent.

Sierra Schultzzie 

Oh, yeah, we should get back to sex.

Hannah Witton 

From like sex and marraige.

Sierra Schultzzie 

Let's talk about sex.

Hannah Witton 

Okay, so what how do you, because you get a lot of questions about like, being body confident in the bedroom.

Sierra Schultzzie 

Oh, yeah.

Hannah Witton 

And like how, like, how, because I get a lot of questions about that as well, especially since having my surgery, and things like that.

Sierra Schultzzie 

So I will say, and I get this question all the time is like, oh, you know, with with your partner, with Stephen, with your husband, like, how does he feel about your body? That has never come up. We've been together for six years, and he has never said anything but positive things about my body. He's never pointed out anything about my body other than like, damn. I think that is the kind of relationship that partner should have with each other's bodies, and I think for me, like, I dated a person, I shouldn't say people, I did a person in the past who was very critical of my body. And that led to a lot of insecurities. And if if you're with someone who's making you feel like that, that is not the right person to be with.

Hannah Witton 

Yeah. And also, they might be framing it as, it's for your own good, and I'm helping you.

Sierra Schultzzie 

Oh, he definitely did that guy that I'm talking about. Not Steven, Steven is wonderful. But yeah, I think I went into my relationship with Steven with a lot of insecurities about my body. And I very quickly realised that he doesn't care if when I'm sitting up, my stomach has rolls, and he doesn't care if I have cellulite on my thighs, and he thinks all those little things make me more beautiful, because that's just part of me.

Hannah Witton 

Yeah. And the thing is, he's probably got that stuff, too.

Sierra Schultzzie 

Yeah. And we talk about that for him too, because, you know, he has his own issues as well. And I think it's not, it's not an issue unless your partner makes it an issue, because I have my own body confidence issues and I will tell Steven, like, oh, I'm not feeling great about this today or and I'll express that to him. But never once has he been like, yeah, you should work on that.

Hannah Witton 

Like, yeah, you're right.

Sierra Schultzzie 

Yeah, no, he's like, no, no, and you look amazing, and I love that about you. And a big thing for me, the biggest insecurity for me is my stomach because I think as women we're always told we have to have these little Disney Princess wastes and like -

Hannah Witton 

Oh my God, my stomach now, like I've got my massive scar running down it and it like has completely distorted the shape of my belly button. So now my belly button is just like this weird like diagonal slit thing going on, and then obviously I've got like my bag of poo.

Sierra Schultzzie 

Yeah.

Hannah Witton 

Yeah, so and I used to be really insecure about like, my stomach because even though I've got like a petite stomach, it was like, it would get round and get big. And I remember like being really insecure about that. And now I'm like, well, you know, should have, should have like, been enjoying that whilst you could.

Sierra Schultzzie 

Right, and all the time when I'm like if I'm like laying on my on my side, and Steven and I are like spooning, he'll try to like touch my stomach and I still find myself being like, no, no, not there, touch me somewhere else, because I'm insecure, but he's like, why, I like it. And I'm like no like, but having that person be like, but why, is a little helpful for me to be like yeah, wait, why don't I like my stomach.

Hannah Witton 

And also like, actually whose opinions matter the most, you know. It's not like random people on the internet or, or like this really negative voice in your head.

Sierra Schultzzie 

Yeah. Yeah. And and I think, so in terms of like, sex and body positivity, I think it's having a partner who encourages and supports you. And I think it is like working on those things outside of the bedroom as well. Like you can't just be like, you know, why do I feel bad about my body when I have sex, but then like not - like still talk negatively about your body, and still like seek out negative influences about your body.

Hannah Witton 

 Yeah.

Sierra Schultzzie 

And I think for me it was I felt so much better about my body, in terms of sex and nudity in general, when I started working on it outside of those situations as well.

Hannah Witton 

Yeah, that's a really good point. Because it's it's like this holistic thing, you can't just be like right I'm gonna like if you know if I'm at this angle, or in this position, then I'm comfortable.

Sierra Schultzzie 

Yeah.

Hannah Witton 

Like, no, it has to be like -

Sierra Schultzzie 

All the time.

Hannah Witton 

Yeah.

Sierra Schultzzie 

Yeah, I have stretch marks on my legs, and that used to be something that I was so, and it's only been recent, I probably got stretch marks on my legs like a year ago, and so obviously Steven and I at that point already married and I was like oh, I think I'm getting stretch marks on my legs, and I'm not sure how I feel about it. And he was like, why? Like that's so normal, like that's the same as like you know, having a scar on your elbow.

Hannah Witton 

Like how often do we like see stretch marks in that in those kinds of photos.

Sierra Schultzzie 

We were at Target yesterday, and there was stretch marks on the model, and I was all excited. But that's another reason I have a big issue with like face tune and Photoshop on Instagram and online, because I think now we all know that like advertisements and models are photoshopped, but then we look at Instagram as like this platform where oh it's like just a photo someone took on their iPhone, so it's real -

Hannah Witton 

Yeah, it's supposed to be relatable.

Sierra Schultzzie 

But then people smooth out the stretch marks, and the cellulite, and and all that and that's why I really try to like leave that stuff in. And even sometimes be like oh wait no no let me take it up this angle so you see all like, you see the cellulite.

Hannah Witton 

You're like, I wanna see it.

Sierra Schultzzie 

Yeah and I think that actually has helped me too, of being like, not being ashamed of it.

Hannah Witton 

Oh my God same. For me like posting pictures of myself like in my underwear, or bikini, with scar and stoma bag showing like helps me become more confident.

Sierra Schultzzie 

Because now you don't feel like it's something you have to hide. You're like okay, everyone's seen it, it's no big deal now. And that's how I feel about my stretch marks and my stomach and my, I remember the first time I filmed a bikini video, this was like two years ago, and I had I was like, oh I really want to do a swimsuit video because I think it would be really helpful to women who have a body like mine. And the night before I cried, I was like, I can't do it. This was two years ago, so I was in a different,  you know, I was earlier on in my body positive journey. And I remember I went in, and my videographer is awesome and so like helpful and encouraging. And it was just me and my videographer, and I was like I walked in with my swimsuit, and I was like covering my stomach, like I had my hands over my stomach and he's like, you look so good like work it, like don't cover yourself.

Hannah Witton 

Aw.

Sierra Schultzzie 

And I was like, okay yeah, and after I filmed that first video, I was like everyone seen it, they know what I look like in a swimsuit, and then it wasn't scary ever again. Like it was like now I'm like, I don't care I'll take a swimsuit photo sitting down, eating the hamburger with like, all the tummy out. I don't care, because they've seen it.

Hannah Witton 

And the thing is, is that like you could use that as a tool to help with your own body confidence. But you don't have to post it online, if you don't want to.

Sierra Schultzzie 

Yes, just take the photo.

Hannah Witton 

Yeah.

Sierra Schultzzie 

And I, you know, I started doing that . I would just have like little mini naked photo shoots of myself.

Hannah Witton 

Right! The the other night, last week when we were at Clamour, got back to my hotel room, and I might have been a little tipsy, and I did my own like nude photo shoot, in like the bathroom in the mirror. The next morning I like woke up and like deleted them all because I didn't want them on the phone.

Sierra Schultzzie 

That's fine!

Hannah Witton 

But like the process of doing it, I was just like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Sierra Schultzzie 

And that's also been something for me where I'm kind of reclaiming that, because I used to take naked photos of myself for, quote unquote, progress with weight loss, to try and be like, this is where I'm starting and this is everything I want to change. And that used to be, I used to have a folder on my phone of like progress, which is like so terrible. I mean this is like four or five years ago, and now when I do that, I'm like, this is progress in terms of how I feel about myself.

Hannah Witton 

Yeah.

Sierra Schultzzie 

This is a different kind of progress. Like look how confident I feel, and look at my stretch marks, and look at my stomach. And so for me, it's it's helped me a) just feel better, and also, it's like been reclaiming that thing that for so long was meant to be a source of shame.

Hannah Witton 

Yeah, that's so true. I think this is a really great place to end it.

Sierra Schultzzie 

Yeah.

Hannah Witton 

I want to say thank you so much for chatting with me, and also letting me stay in your guestroom.

Sierra Schultzzie 

Any time. We'll have to do it again next year.

Hannah Witton 

Thank you so much. Bye.

Sierra Schultzzie 

Bye.

Hannah Witton 

Thank you so much for listening. If you enjoyed it, I would really appreciate it if you left a rating and a review. You can find show notes at DoingItPodcast.co.uk, and do go follow us on social media @DoingItPodcast on Twitter and Instagram, and I'll catch you in the next episode.

Hannah Witton 

This was a Global original podcast