Reflections, Maternity Leave Plans and Answering Your Questions (End of 2021 Special) ! Transcript
Find the episode shownotes here!
Hannah Witton
Hi, welcome back to doing it with me, Hannah Witton, the podcast for all you sex nerds out there. This is our final episode of 2021. We're giving ourselves and you a little break over the Christmas/New Year period and then we'll be back with more episodes in January. But we thought it would be fun to do an end of year special episode. So I sat down virtually with my assistant Moog, who you may remember from some previous episodes, as we reflect on working on the podcast this year, the rebrand, my pregnancy health break that put the podcast unexpectedly on pause for a while, and our plans for 2022 and what's going to happen with the podcast when I'm on maternity leave? Because yes, I may be a freelance content creator who doesn't have a traditional job that will give her maternity leave, but I will damn well be taking some time off. We talk about our favourite episodes, if pregnancy has changed my perception on any topics we've covered, the controversy over the episode on sex addiction, Moog's experience doing Ev'Yan Whitney's Sensual Selfie Challenge, and lots lots more.
As usual, you can find more info and links to everything we talked about in this episode in the show notes over at doingitpodcast.co.uk and please let us know what you think over on our Twitter or Instagram, which is @doingitpodcast. If you like this episode, please give us a rating and review over on iTunes, it is really, really appreciated. And here is our last episode of 2021. I hope that you enjoy!
Welcome back to the podcast, Moog. Welcome, welcome.
Moog
It feels like forever.
Hannah Witton
It really hasn't. You've been on it loads now. We need to explain that you're now Moog. Or you've always been Moog, you were just temporarily Megan.
Moog
Yes. I have always been Moog, I was just temporarily Megan because it was a holdover of using my like, like air quotes real name for you know, like work and stuff. But now that I am sufficiently far enough out of the corporate world, I was like, "Wait, if I'm freelancing, I can call myself anything I want. So I'm going to use my actual name." So here I am, I am Moog now.
Hannah Witton
Welcome. Welcome, Moog. And I just keep saying it as well because I'm like practising like shifting your name in my head. But yeah, that's great. So if anyone is confused, Moog is my assistant and works with me on a lot of the podcast stuff, social media, and the website and all of that kind of thing and across YouTube and lots of fun things. But same person as it was before, just new old name.
Moog
It's me, it's still me, it's just now I use my actual name also at my job.
Hannah Witton
Yeah.
Moog
Don't need a worksona anymore.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, this - Hannah Witton HQ isn't a corporate environment.
Moog
There's a strict dress code here!
Hannah Witton
Oh my god. Imagine. Imagine. I'm not even wearing my slippers. That is the dress code. I should be wearing my slippers right now.
Moog
Yeah, slippers, and you have to wear the brand colours.
Hannah Witton
I'm in like Hormone Diaries colours today. So.
Moog
I think I am too.
Hannah Witton
Oh, yeah. Look at us.
Moog
[audible thump] Ow.
Hannah Witton
Nailed it. Totally on purpose.
Moog
Yeah, for sure.
Hannah Witton
So I wanted to just to do like an end of year episode roundup with you and it's definitely not because we took a massive pregnancy pause on the podcast. And I was like, "How do I make the end of year recording and getting content out as easy on me as possible?" But appreciate you being here.
Moog
Nope, not that, it's a completely different reason.
Hannah Witton
First of all, like 2021 with the podcast, just wanted to kind of like, reflect on how it's gone. So at the beginning of the year, we kicked off season four. I will say the seasons are pretty arbitrary.
Moog
Yes.
Hannah Witton
It's very much like, "I feel like we need a break now." But yeah, other than that, just like gives us a chance to kind of like reset and take a break, schedule in some more guests, kind of take a look and be like "Ooh, who do - like - what is the next batch of interviews that we want?" But yeah, so we took a-
Moog
And obviously between four and five, we rebranded!
Hannah Witton
Yes. So that was a longer break than usual. because we did the whole rebrand with the colours, and then it felt - I got anxious because it felt like we were gone too long. And so we did those series of agony aunt minisodes which if you haven't listened to, they were a lot of fun. Moog and I basically did these minisodes where we took your advice questions, and kind of tackled one question per episode, and there's like, five or six of those.
Moog
Yeah. They were so fun. We recorded them on like, when it was really really, really hot.
Hannah Witton
Yes. Yeah.
Moog
Yes. So between - what you what you don't hear, listeners, is that between- when we weren't recording, we would just be like, "Fan break!"
Hannah Witton
Yeah. Oh my god, yeah. We'd be like -
Moog
"Turn the fan back on!"
Hannah Witton
Because we recorded all six episodes in one go. And yeah, every time we like finished one, it was like, "Okay, turn the fans back on. Open the windows. Cool ourselves. down." Yeah, I forgot about that. But yeah, so those went out. And then we came back for season five with so much - this is my perspective of how it went. I was so excited.
Moog
Okay.
Hannah Witton
We had the rebrand. We were doing video. There was so much like behind the scenes stuff that I was doing during those few months break of like liaising with Global and the graphic design team there, liaising with my video editor Beckii and getting like video templates for the podcast all done. Like so much stuff. We were redesigning the website to make sure that all matched as well. Oh my god, there was loads. And then I was scheduling in my recordings. So I had like four or five people who I was like, these are going to be my first five episodes, like, we'll - and then I was going to book in more the further we went, but that felt like a good amount to kind of like have recorded before we launch. And then I got pregnant. Obviously a good thing. Been trying for a while. But I think three out of those five first starter episodes I was recording when I was feeling like shit.
Moog
Yeah, that sounds right. That sounds right. Three of them.
Hannah Witton
It was - I think it was the Emily Nagasaki one. And then Amp. And.. Ev'Yan?
Moog
Justine.
Hannah Witton
Was it Justine?
Moog
No, it was Justine. I'm pretty sure.
Hannah Witton
Oh, okay. There was the one with Amp because the one with Amp I recorded later in the evening. And then there was another one, there was maybe either Justine or Ev'Yan, where I recorded that earlier in the day, and I went home to nap in between the two of them.
Moog
Yeah, you were like, "I'm done, I'm going to nap, bye."
Hannah Witton
But I'd obviously scheduled all of them in beforehand, and we were like, ready to launch, it was all happening. And I was like, "I just need to get through doing these episodes. And then I'll see how I feel afterwards. I'm not even gonna - I can't even think about scheduling in new ones because I have no idea like when I'll be feeling better to do that."
Moog
Yeah, it was just like, "Okay, well, I'm gonna do these. And then question mark, question mark profit."
Hannah Witton
Yeah, question mark. And it was a big question, but because I think - how long - I don't know, did we have like a month break? Or like a month and a half? Unplanned, mid-season?
Moog
Yeah. Yeah. Because we got like the work on our end done before the episodes finished. So for us, it felt longer, I think, then it felt like listening. The listening break.
Hannah Witton
Oh yeah, maybe. Because I was editing the video stuff. So like, I was putting together the full video episode for my patrons and also the kind of like, cut down version for YouTube and social media. I was - that was like my one big task every week that I had to do when I just like couldn't do anything. And the wild thing was was I remember timing it in terms - when I was - before I started feeling like crap. And it was like a two hour task maybe. But it just like it was so hard to do. But I managed to do it somehow. And then - but now that we were kind of like back and I'm back doing like the YouTube stuff as well, I wanted to say like, that's one of the reasons why there's been no like video stuff. I was hyping it so much at the beginning.
Moog
You were so excited! We were so excited about it.
Hannah Witton
I know, I was like "Oh my god season five and we're gonna have video as well, it's gonna be so good." I am grateful that I had some of those video episodes, like the kind of highlights ones, because obviously I was also taking a break from a lot of my YouTube content And so having those episodes to kind of like go out on the YouTube channel whilst I was also gone like felt good. I was like, "Okay, at least there's something happening."
Moog
"There's something! I'm popping up in the subscription box."
Hannah Witton
"Don't forget about me!"
Moog
No one could forget about you.
Hannah Witton
Aw, thank you. But yeah. And now and now we're back, but I really do still want to figure out the video stuff. I have mentioned this, I think in a YouTube video, I was like, "I'm glad that we had the video stuff. But also all of those videos like flopped on my channel as well."
Moog
Yes.
Hannah Witton
Which I expected, but like, it still hurts. And you're just like, you see the numbers and you're like, aghhhh.
Moog
Yeah, it's still like - you still like work and care about the videos, like, "Those aren't the numbers that I like!"
Hannah Witton
Yeah. And, and that's, that's honestly fine. Because what it made me realise was like, oh, people haven't subscribed to this channel for this. And I was throwing
Moog
Yeah, they're here for you not for that.
Hannah Witton
I was throwing them something that was unexpected. Whereas people who subscribe to the podcast, they've subscribed. They're like, "Yes, I want more of this. I want to be notified when there's new episodes and stuff." So it does make me start to flirt with the idea of like, do we create an entirely separate like Doing It podcast YouTube channel to throw up clips and highlights and stuff to kind of like, promote it that way? That is more work. But we are hiring a creative producer to help us with more work.
Moog
It's so true!
Hannah Witton
So maybe that is something that we'll be able to do but not straight away, basically. So whilst there definitely will be more podcast episodes, and we'll get back to the weekly stuff in the new year, I'm not sure when videos will come back. But hopefully. Because I do love having the little video clips on - especially like on Instagram and stuff.
Moog
They're so fun on Instagram. They're so good on Instagram. And also they're really fun too - this is so nerdy - but they're so fun to subtitle for Instagram.
Hannah Witton
Oh my god, I love that. That's great. We love it. Um, yeah, that's kind of where I'm at. And then I started to feel better. And I've managed to schedule in some recordings for the end of the year. And I'm also now reaching out to guests to start to schedule in some recordings for like January/February time as well. Because I love getting ahead when possible.
Moog
Yes, it's - Team Witton is very, very organised over here unless we are not.
Hannah Witton
Yeah. Unless health stuff comes up, which we always make sure to prioritise.
Moog
Exactly. Yeah.
Hannah Witton
Very important. The podcast can wait.
Moog
You're growing. You're growing like a baby and an organ. Like come on, that's more important than a podcast.
Hannah Witton
I've started feeling it, you know?
Moog
You've started feeling it?
Hannah Witton
I've started feeling movements, yeah.
Moog
Does it feel like - like fluttering?
Hannah Witton
So this was the perfect description that I heard. And I was like, yes, that is what it is. It's like somebody is flicking you from the inside.
Moog
I mean, I guess that's kind of what's happening. Yeah,
Hannah Witton
Yeah, cuz there are tiny! So it is like a little flick. Yeah. Dan hasn't been able to feel it yet. Because, like, it's very sporadic, where it is, as well, like, it'll kick like - or move, I don't even know - like a couple times on one side. And I'll be like, "It's happening. Give me your hand." And then he'll put his hand on my belly. And then suddenly, I'll feel it on the other side. And I'll be like, "No, it's over here now!" But also, I think that is - the baby isn't big enough yet to, to kind of like make a big enough impact -
Moog
Like, kick?
Hannah Witton
- that somebody feeling my belly from the outside would be able to feel because even I've tried to then put my hand on my belly and even like, I think the sensation that I'm feeling is coming from the inside, not... But hey, it's just gonna keep getting more and bigger. And that's kind of exciting.
Moog
That's so cool. That's so cool.
Hannah Witton
I think someone commented on one of my Instagram posts, just like "Just wait until you feel a foot get lodged in your rib."
Moog
Ooh, what dreams are made of.
Hannah Witton
I was like, "Wow." it's so interesting how like, specific it gets as well because like people have said they're like, they feel a kick or they can see it as well, which is wild to me. But they're like, "Oh, yeah, that was that was a hand. Oh, yeah. I saw the - you know, like you - ahh!"
Moog
I remember that from when my mum was pregnant with my little sister like you can - sometimes you could see like the outline of a hand or like of a foot, like just pushing against the skin and it would just be like, this is so cool.
Hannah Witton
It's kind of like Alien.
Moog
It fully is - it's fully - like that's exactly the image. I was thinking about, yeah.
Hannah Witton
Actually, I actually rewatched all of the Twilight films when I was feeling like crap. I watched so many. So many films during my, during my break.
Moog
During your convalescence.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, and it just made me think like, why didn't Carlisle give Bella a early elective caesarean? Like, before she went into spontaneous labour. You know, they waited for this like monster child to try and like eat its way out of her. Whilst Carlisle the doctor was like off in the woods hunting. It's like, no! Like he was - you know, they're measure - he's a doctor, but measure the bump as it grows like, yes, it was going faster, but you could still like track it to be like, "Oh, she's probably the equivalent of full term now. Maybe what would be best here is to do a caesarean because we've got no idea like how this thing is going to come out of her and if it will, like break her." And it did break her. So anyway, that's a new thing that I've been thinking about.
Moog
See while I agree with you, and you are right, I think that the logic in the books was that Carlisle the doctor was like, "Please let me elective caesarean this monster child out of you" and Bella was like, "No."
Hannah Witton
Oh, was he? I haven't read the books.
Moog
I have - it's in there. I wrote an essay about Twilight at university and everything. Yeah, so I think he's like, let me take the baby out, and so was like everyone else, and she's like, No, but the baby, I want it to survive. And it's just her and what's the -
Hannah Witton
Rosalie?
Moog
Rosalie, yeah. It's her and Rosalie being like, "No, but the baby." And everyone else is being like, Iit is going to eat your spine."
Hannah Witton
Yeah, but having a caesarean is not the same as - the baby will be fine. Yeah, no,
Moog
Yeah, no -that's, yeah. From like, a logical standpoint that is - that is clearly in the answer here, but in a - in Bella Swan -
Hannah Witton
On my rewatch of them, it was like, the anti abortion vibes - I was like, ohhh.
Moog
Oh my god.
Hannah Witton
I was like, "I did not pick up on this like years ago when I like first watched it, but it was, it was strong."
Moog
Yeah, it's very, it's very, like, "Here are all of my views, but they're not actually - they're not political because it's about vampires."
Hannah Witton
Yeah, it's wild. Anyway, let's continue talking about the podcast.
Moog
Brief Twlight break.
Hannah Witton
There's lots of things that I wanted to chat about. And then we also have some listener questions as well. And I want to make sure we have time for those. One of the things I wanted to chat with you about - so we had Ev'Yan Whitney on the podcast, and we talked about sensuality and sexuality and the promoing their new book, and they also had the Sensual Selfie Challenge that was like, just about to happen, I think, was that like, right after the episode came out, I think?
Moog
Yeah, they hadn't announced it when the episode was coming out. And it came out - Yeah, they announced it, like, I think a couple of weeks after.
Hannah WItton
Okay. And you took part in it!
Moog
I did!
Hannah Witton
You, you did the Sensual Selfie Challenge. And so I just was curious as to how that felt, what your experience was? What went down?
Moog
It was so - it was so good. Like, I'd been thinking about like, I'd been wanting to take some like lingerie pictures of myself anyway, before that, because I was like, "I think this would just be like really fun and empowering." And for context I'm in recovery from an eating disorder so like, my relationship with my body has always been very up and down. Mostly down. But we're trying for up! We're trying for up.
Hannah Witton
Aiming for up.
Moog
And when I was doing like, the background stuff for the Ev'Yan episode. I saw that they did the Sensual Selfie Challenge a few years ago. And I was like, "That sounds like exactly what I want to be doing." Like it was essentially like, like holistic photography of like really getting in touch with how you're feeling about yourself and like celebrating yourself as you but also as art. So it's not - yeah, like not just how you're feeling but also how you're feeling and how you can use that in a like creative, like, transportive way. And so then I was like, "Okay, okay, we'll give this a go." And it was so great. So every day there was a prompt from a different person who was like guest hosting. And it would be like so take a photo - there was like a technical prompt like take a photo in like direct sunlight or like use a specific prop. And there would also be - not a mantra but like something to say while you were - something to like concentrate and think about while you were taking the photos.
Hannah Witton
Ooh, okay, yeah, I know, the word is going out of my brain as well. Not a mantra. What is it? An affirmation?
Moog
Yeah, yeah, an affirmation!
Hannah Witton
Yes, there we go.
Moog
Look at us! Um, to focus on as well. So you could take it as like - you could take it as spiritual as you wanted, like, it was everyone's level. And one of my favourite things, as well as taking the photographs, which was, it was really - like it happened, it was over like a five day period. And so every day, I would carve out 20 minutes of time to just be like, shut the door, shut the cats out and like, focus on taking this photo. And like, also, I have, I have M.E., so I have a chronic illness, so finding 20 minutes of like, physical activity time every day is not always doable, but I was prioritising it above like everything else for the week so that I could get it done. And just having that focus on like, what I felt and what I looked like but not allowing it to turn negative was so empowering. I don't know, it was, it was so good. I definitely came out of that week being like, I am glorious, and my body is perfect.
Hannah Witton
Yeah. And your photos was so good as well. The photos are amazing.
Moog
Oh, thank you. I had so much fun with them. I sent - obviously like before I put anything online, I sent some to like - well, I showed my wife and like I showed my best friend like, "Look, I took these photos!" And my best friend was like, "Um, so I'm suddenly having - I'm suddenly realising that you're hot."
Hannah Witton
Only just now? Rude.
Moog
No, no, it's like - there's a difference. And I was like, "This is the best compliment. This is the best compliment I've ever had."
Hannah Witton
I love that. That's great.
Moog
But it's really cool. Like there's a thing on Tik Tok currently, that's like, "I don't always feel very confident. But then I remembered this photo exists." And then you show a photo. And the photo that I think of is the first one I took for the Sensual Selfie Challenge. It's like definitely the most I've ever looked at a photo - those - all those photos, but specifically, the first one. It's the one I look at. And I'm like, "That's me, that's me in a photo." And I never see me in photos. So it was just so - it was so good. And there'd be challenges like, go and buy yourself some flowers. And I went and bought myself some flowers.
Hannah Witton
I love that. Yeah.
Moog
Tt was amazing. Highly recommend, and the commute, like if you I know the challenge isn't happening anymore. But the Instagram tag is #TheSensualSelfieChallenge. I'll link it in the shownotes. But part of the real joy of it was going in that tag every day and reading other people's like thoughts and looking at everyone else's photos. And it was just like, everyone was feeling the same. And it was, it was very like - you get very in your own head about your body and like what it looks like and what you feel about it. And you know, like, or at least I knew, like logically that other people feel the same way about their bodies, but because it's so sharp in your mind. It doesn't feel like they can mean it as much. But then you're just reading everything that people are writing and you're like, "Oh my god, it's all of us. Society has like fucked us over."
Hannah Witton
Yup.
Moog
So there was that feeling. And then this like outpouring of community support, just people being like, "You are glorious. This is an amazing photo. Like, I love your thoughts." It was it was so great. I'll link the hashtag, I absolutely recommend going through and having a look at everything.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, and maybe Ev'Yan will do another one next year or soon. Who knows?
Moog
Yeah, fingers crossed. I'll definitely do it again. You should do it next time.
Hannah Witton
Oh, yeah. I I feel like it would be more of a challenge for me like creatively, maybe.
Moog
Yeah.
Hannah Witton
But it'd be interesting cuz obviously my body is going through such changes as well. So it'll be interesting to see how that changes, like, how I feel about myself in photos and things like that. But yeah.
Hannah Witton
Okay, so I have some other things. We probably had, in the last couple episodes, our most controversial episode going out.
Moog
We did, we did. I think that's our most controversial.
Hannah Witton
Which was the episode about sex addiction with Silva Neves, and I thought the conversation that kind of like happened around it on our Instagram was really interesting, because a lot of people had a lot of resistance to the title of the episode and us saying that sex addiction isn't real. And whilst I will admit, yes, it's a provocative title. That's, that's, that's kind of us playing the internet game a bit. But we do talk at length and Silva Neves, who's a psychosexual and relationship therapist, goes into great detail obviously in the whole episode about how what we're talking about is the fact that sex addiction isn't clinically recognised as a diagnosis. And actually, what a lot of therapists - the model that a lot of therapists work with is compulsive sexual behaviours. And it's, it's really interesting. Kind of like, new information to me as well, a lot of it, in terms of like, actually, like, using an addiction model when it comes to sex, can be quite harmful and exploitative, especially like in terms of people's mental health, and also financially as well. There's like a whole world out there that - maybe it's more prevalent in the US, I'm not sure. And then also, kind of actually diving into what compulsive sexual behaviours are, and like how treating them works if you were to go to see a therapist. But it was really interesting, because one of the things he mentions in the episode is that people have a lot of resistance. And then we got a lot of resistance. And so it was like, "Oh, yeah. "Cuz people - a lot of people really cling to the idea of sex addiction, especially like if they experience sexual problems, or somebody that they know, because they have experienced first hand the kind of destructive nature of having a condition like that, right. And so, you know, like when we say, "Oh, it's not real. We're not dismissing those experiences."
Moog
Not at all. No.
Hannah Witton
We're saying - we're talking about language, I guess. And also, what can be more or less helpful or harmful to people? Yeah, and I think, I think at one point Silva talks about, like, if someone came to his clinic and was like, "I'm a sex addict," he's not gonna turn around to just be like, "No, you're not, here is the definition." Like, I think, I mean, I have a tendency - but it is my podcast - to intellectualise I think a lot of these discussions because that's where my like sex nerd brain goes. It would be interesting. Like, I wonder if we would be able to find somebody who maybe has experienced what they thought was sex addiction, or someone who has experienced compulsive sexual behaviours, who would maybe be keen to talk to me on the podcast? I don't know. That I think that could be a nice balance to the like, here's the kind of like, clinical, intellectual, let's theorise about this, and then the actual, like, person experience. The human experience of what it's like.
Moog
Yeah, that sounds really interesting. It would be good to get one from like, like the other side.
Hannah Witton
Yeah.
Moog
Like, the feeling side.
Hannah Witton
Yeah. Because I think one of the things that a lot of people were saying, was that like, "Well, it feels like an addiction." Yeah. And I think that's, you know, that's more than valid, because that's like, how, how you're experiencing it. And I just hope that if people are experiencing any kind of like sexual problems, things that are causing them distress and shame, would seek help and seek help from, like a licenced sex therapist, who knows about compulsive sexual behaviours, and maybe try and avoid, like, Sex Addicts Anonymous and things like that?
Moog
Yeah, to someone that knows the best way to treat that, specifically, like - and also like Silva was saying, if someone turned up and said, "I'm struggling with sex addiction," he wouldn't be like, "No. The important thing near is that you know the correct, like, clinical terminology and that's more important than me, like meeting you where you are and helping you with what you're struggling with." Like, no, the important thing is that the person gets accurate and supportive help and not that, you know, the saying the, like, quote, unquote, like, right thing.
Hannah Witton
Yeah. And I think it's interesting because, I mean, we get so many messed up messages around sex.
Moog
So many.
Hannah Witton
Just so many, which is one of the reasons why I'm just like, to be honest, like if you've got like a lot of distress and shame and like sexual problems and like the way that you are, I don't know, going about sexual relationships or like your relationship with porn and masturbation or all of these things, if you think that they're problematic, I'm like, "It is not your fault."
Moog
Not at all, no.
Hannah Witton
The amount of like just weird messages and really harmful messages that we get around sex and sexuality in our society. I'm like, "Yeah, it's no wonder that we're all really screwed up about sex." Like.
Moog
Yeah, of course not.
Hannah Witton
And there's not that many, like, healthy outlets, especially like for having these kinds of conversations. And I think things like an addiction model - in my understanding an addiction model focuses on abstinence and avoidance, which in the world of sex is maybe not the best approach, because that actually then breeds more fear and more shame around sex, rather than, like, sexual liberation and acceptance. But yeah, that's kind of like where my head is at with all of that.
Moog
Yeah, no, I think that's what - I think that's what you talked about in the episode as well, like you're not trying to create more shame around something that you're ashamed of.
Hannah Witton
Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. And moving on, because I really want to get to these listener questions as well.
Moog
Yes! Yes.
Hannah Witton
But I just like have so many - apparently have lots of end of year thoughts. Spotify Wrapped came out.
Moog
Yes!
Hannah Witton
Our most popular episode was the fertility and pregnancy one with Mama Doctor Jones, which like, came out right at the beginning of the year. It was like a season four one, February or March time when I was still trying to get pregnant. Obviously, Mama Doctor Jones was hugely popular, so I'm not surprised that she drew in lots of listens, that I also think it's really interesting that obviously, the topic as well. But yeah, that's that's only on Spotify, though. We don't - I - honestly, I could have checked across all platforms, but I forgot to. But that's our Spotify wrapped most popular episodes. But yeah.
Hannah Witton
Um, here's one. So. 50 Shades of Grey came up twice in -
Moog
It did.
Hannah Witton
In season five alone, it probably more than in like - yeah. With Amp and with Scotty. One where we focused more on the negative impacts of 50 Shades and the misrepresentation of BDSM and the kink scene. And then, on the flip side, the positive impact of it in terms of like, how mainstream it was, and getting people opening up more about their sexuality and it kind of making it less of a taboo as well. Where do you sit on 50 Shades now?
Moog
I sit - kind of both. Can I sit both? I think I can sit both.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, we're all about nuance, we love it.
Moog
Yeah, yeah, we're out of No Nuance November, there's nuance to the rest of the year. Yeah, I think that like, I feel very strongly with what Scotty was saying about, like, there shouldn't be an onus on people writing entertainment to also be educators. Like up to a certain extent, obviously, there is like a -
Hannah Witton
There's a bit of a responsibility in terms of not depicting harmful behaviours completely uncritically.
Moog
Exactly.
Hannah Witton
Because you can depict unhealthy relationships and things in your fiction. It just depends on like, what you're saying about it, I guess. But then there's me being like, "No, you haven't you - it has to be educational." I don't know. Yeah.
Moog
I think there's a balance. Like, I don't think that you're expecting the same thing from say 50 Shades of Grey as you are, if you, like, watch one of your videos about what kink is.
Hannah Witton
Oh, yeah.
Moog
You know? Like, you're going to different places. But also, I think also like part of me is just like - just, you could you could have researched! You could have researched better! You could have researched better, E.L. James. Yeah, I don't know, because I feel very much like romance and erotica authors shouldn't be held up as like, you didn't present this in the way that I have read about in like, I don't, in like Wikipedia articles. This isn't the like the A to Z of how to tie somebody up safely. But I think that there is, as you were saying, also a responsibility to be like, if you are showing that something that is unsafe, just mention - just like lampshade that that is not like safe in some way. Like maybe one of the characters thinks, or like it comes up again later.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, or there are consequences to what happened.
Moog
Yes. Yeah. It's very much like "Oh, no, but it's just a story." But then you get into "Oh, it's just a story so it doesn't matter that all the gay people were evil in everything." Like, no. Yeah. But I also - I also really like that like you were saying I think in the episode with Scotty, like it got so many people talking about - even if they weren't talking about it, like engaging with, like, erotica or like their own desires or the concept of desires that weren't their own in a mainstream way that just hadn't happened. Like you said, you would see like, you know, like Marks and Spencers type people sitting on a train, reading 50 Shades of Grey and be like this is incredible. Maybe they wouldn't be able to talk about it without like, feeling too embarrassed, but they were still engaging with it because it was seen as like - it wasn't like - it was it was mainstream taboo, right? Like, it's that, okay, it's just enough, like, oooh. Just enough for a song to be like exciting, and not enough to be like, "Oh, this is like - I've been taught that I'm not allowed to engage with this." So I think that's really cool that it got people to experience and maybe like, think about things that maybe they'd wanted to, but were too afraid to, because they thought that they shouldn't. What about you? What do you think?
Hannah Witton
Kind of just all of that? Definitely, definitely sitting somewhere in the middle. On it all in terms of like, yeah, the impact. You can't deny that it got people talking about BDSM. It kind of like probably introduced a lot of people to it as well. But then, yeah, on the flip side it's like, if that's the only information that you have about BDSM. And I think I said this in the Scotty episode as well, and like, you know, the entertainment - like people who create entertainment don't have to, like, be educators all the time. But what we would just hope for is that entertainment isn't the only place where learning about sex.
Yes, yeah, like there should be - there should be other places. I say, as someone who basically got sex education through X Files fan fiction.
Hannah Witton
I mean, it's still - you're diversifying where you get it from. You know. Okay, I want to dive into some listener questions now. Someone asked us: fave episode of the year? Do have one at the top of your head?
Moog
Mine has to be the Ev'Yan episode. Yeah, mine has to be Ev'Yan, because I just remember doing the transcript for it and just being like, this person is articulating everything that I was thinking and haven't been able to word. So it has to be that, like, like Ev'Yan changed my life this year so it has to be them.
Hannah Witton
Oh my goodness!
Moog
So yeah, it's not - it's not just the listeners. It's the people working on it too.
Hannah Witton
Yeah. I think for me, maybe the Justine Ang Fonte one. Just because, like, she's an incredible speaker. Like, I wanted to get her on the podcast after seeing her speak at - twice- at these kind of like two different but connected online conferences that I went to. And just being like, "I am in awe of like, your passion, and just the way that you like articulate righteous anger." Like I just think she's absolutely brilliant. And then with everything that she went through last year that we talked about on the podcast, with the school that she was at and like teaching sex ed and the whole media storm. Yeah, I just think that she's brilliant. And just has so much to say, and I loved that episode.
Moog
It's definitely one of the episodes that like, as I was working on it, I would have to keep pausing and being like, "Wife, this, this thing also happened!"
Hannah Witton
Right, like, you're like, "Oh my god!"
Moog
Just needing other people to react to it. Yeah.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, for sure. For sure. Has being pregnant changed your perception about any topics you've covered on Doing It? I thought this was a really interesting question. And the first thing that came to mind -
Moog
This is such an interesting question!
Hannah Witton
- yeah - was the Sex Positive Families episode with Melissa. I can't remember what season that was. It was when we kind of like started doing remote recordings, I think. And the reason why - it's not like changed my perception like in terms of like changing my mind about things that maybe were said in that episode. But it's more of a like at the time of recording that, it was all very hypothetical to me, like sex positive parenting, and now I'm like, "Oh my god, like, actually, how do you do this?" Like, I need to re listen to that episode, like, I need advice, like, I need help! Because I'm like, "I know the theory!" You know, like, I'm like, at that stage, like, you know, like before it maybe like was gonna be this like real thing, I could maybe like, vaguely give advice to friends about sex positive parenting, but obviously not talking from experience as a parent, but talking from experience as a sex educator. But now I'm like, "Oh, like, I'm gonna draw on my knowledge as much as possible." But I also just have to, like, give myself permission to also just be like, "Ah, my three year old is asking me where babies come from." And I genuinely think I'm gonna be the kind of person who like, has a script. But I have, I have Melissa's book, which is like Sex Positive Conversations to Have with Your Kids. And I'm going to be like, going through all of her book recommendations, like different ages, and all of the different like conversations and stuff. And I'm like, yeah. So my perception has changed in, in the sense of like, "Oh, god, it's real now."
Moog
You've got like, you've got - like, because you can think, I guess you can think very much like, "Oh, well, what if like, a three year old, four year old asked me this." And then it's very much like, "What I tell this child is what that child will think until they find other information."
Hannah Witton
And the other thing that I was thinking about as well, it's like, what I tell this child, and what I think that my child will be ready to hear in the conversations that we're having - because obviously, every kid is going to be different in terms of like, what they're asking about, what they're curious about, and all this kind of stuff. There's then the other thought in my head of like, they're then going to go and tell their friends at nursey, at school. And, and like, there is a bit of like embarrassment or shame of like if the other kids aren't ready for it. Or if their parents aren't ready for it. That then I will be like the bad guy in terms of like "Your child said that not all men have penises to my child." 's Like, what is she? Just like - I don't even know, like, that's such a maybe completely far fetched worry. I don't know.
Moog
I don't know, I was definitely the kid being like, "I found out this fact about sex at like five." And my friends would be like, "I don't understand what you're talking about."
Hannah Witton
Yeah, and it's so weird because obviously, I'm like, I would want to really be able to stand by what I tell my kid and when. But then there's still this like, shame of like, "Oh, what are the other parents gonna think?" But I need to like, really, like, stay true and be like, "No, I know, that like, sex positive parenting is a good thing." And just being able to like really, like stand in those values. Confidently.
Moog
Also, your child matters more to you than like -
Hannah Witton
What the parents think of me! So true.
Moog
- the parents of other children. Oh, when I was babysitting once, like, I think she was about six or seven, her parents were out, and she asked me where babies came from. And like, I was like, "I don't - I know what - how I would like explain this to you, a seven year old, but I don't know what your parents want you to know. I don't know what like you already know." So I definitely remember just hedging very - a lot. But it was definitely the first time that I'd really thought like, "Oh, what I tell this kid, this kid is gonna think."
Hannah Witton
And there are so many different answers to that question as well. Like, do you go like, where do babies come from - egg, sperm, science? Do you go where do babies come from - sex? Do you go to like, also there's adoption and IVF. And like - because there's so many different places that babies come from!
Moog
I mean, at least if - at least when it's like your child, you know your own values.
Hannah Witton
And you can be like, "This is where you came from. I don't know about all these other kids that are hanging around. I don't know where they came from."
Moog
"I don't know about - let's watch Dumbo again and watch the stork deliver the babies to the train."
Hannah Witton
Oh, dear, yeah. That's not how it works, child. But yeah, that's the subject that I've been thinking about. I might revisit that episode for personal use.
Moog
I recommended it to friends with kids.
Hannah Witton
Oh really?
Moog
Yeah, yeah.
Hannah Witton
Love that. But no, I have the book and I'm like, I'm like ready to dive in. Obviously a lot of this stuff I don't really have to be thinking about for a while, but naturally, I am.
Moog
Of course you are!
Hannah Witton
Alright, so on a more like logistical note. Someone said: do you sometimes work in the office? Did you record all of the episodes remotely or did you meet some of the guests this year? The only guest I recorded in person with this year was Dan, my husband, but we live together. But I've recorded all of the episodes for season five here in the new studio. And then all of the ones before that I was recording at home in my home office before I moved in here. We were going to record this episode in person and you were going to come see the studio for the first time.
Moog
I was so excited!
Hannah Witton
I know, but a lot of the panini, pancetta, stuff was just getting a bit too intense. And so as two vulnerable people we were like, "Let's not."
Moog
Yeah, it was like, do I want to be on the tube? And the answer was like, I really, really don't. Thank you.
Hannah Witton
you. Yeah, nope. Fair enough. Fair enough.
Moog
But I want to see the studio. Everyone - everyone fix the panini so that I personally -
Hannah Witton
Can go to work!
Moog
Can go and see the studio!
Hannah Witton
Yeah, exactly. But yeah, no, everything has been remote. And that is kind of like how we'll continue doing it for the foreseeable future. It also means that we can do these video recordings in this very nice and easy way with - and then we'll do something with those videos. Eventually. But we have them!
Moog
Eventually. They'll be there.
Hannah Witton
But we have them. And then actually one of my patrons asked: will HanDan be continuing into 2022? So HanD podcast is like a Patreon exclusive podcast that me and my husband Dan do. It is very sporadic. I honestly don't actually remember the last one we did. But it's just a bit more like lifestyle-y or sometimes we talk about relationships and stuff. But we did a whole episode where we just talked about food as well. Though, we just kind of like take a topic and just like have a conversation about it. But no, we haven't really done any of those especially since I moved into the studio because it's like, all of my equipment is like here. And it's just a case of just like, be like "What do you want to talk about to record?" really. But we should do more of those because actually I really enjoy them.
Moog
You should because then you get the the magic of "this is what transcription software thinks Dan is saying."
Hannah Witton
Oh my goodness. He's such a mumbler.
Moog
Fantastic.
Hannah Witton
And yeah, is it his accent? Like what is it that - he has a southern accent but so like that's pretty just like bog standard accent, I don't know why transcription software hates it.
Moog
It's definitely one of the ones - so we do the transcription, run it through a transcription software and then I go in and make sure that it is like accurate and and right and also legible. And that it's not just like, completely wrong or gobbledygook or like big chunks of text.
Hannah Witton
Yeah. Like and get all sex words as well, because -
Moog
Oh, yeah. Oh, it has - it has a field day with anything remotely sex related. The amount of times that I've had to correct - like I don't think it has got clitoris right once, ever.
Hannah Witton
Gutted.
Moog
I can't think of the top of my - I should start keeping a list of some of the the things it thinks sex words are so we can share that. It was - there's some, there's some classic ones. But Dan is definitely I think the person that the transcription software thinks was you. So it was just like - because sometimes I get - I look at the what it's just produced and it's just like one giant block paragraph because it thinks both voices are the same. And I'm like, these are different people!
Hannah Witton
Wow. That is not what I expected like one of the issues to be. That's so weird. He definitely has a deeper voice than me.
Moog
Yeah, it's not even like you have like the same cadence or the same -
Hannah Witton
Accent!
Moog
- or even the same accent. Yeah, but no, the transcription thing was just like, "This is one person having a mildly deranged self conversation."
Hannah Witton
Maybe, maybe we actually now do have similar cadence and accent maybe, because we spend the most time with each other. And so actually, you get us just chatting together and yeah, we're just like talking over each other. We actually do sound really similar because we're just like, mimicking each other. I don't know. Fascinating. Who knows.
Moog
The thing that always - the thing I notice again, like especially if I am on the recording as well - definitely when I'm doing the transcription my main problem is like, "Stop talking over each other." And then I'm very very aware that like, I do it when I - because that's how you talk to a human. Congrats to all you podcasting people out there, you are, you are magical and you've retrained your brain.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, because it feels very unnatural to like pause. after someone has said something or like waiting, like, "Are you done? Can I say something?" No, I, we talk over each other a lot as well. So good luck with the transcript for this episode.
Hannah Witton
Oh, someone else actually asked: I'd be curious to hear an episode about pregnancy and sex, how those affects one another. And yeah, that is definitely a subject area that I want to talk about. It's just about finding who, really figuring out -
Moog
Go back to Mama Doctor Jones?
Hannah Witton
Yeah, but maybe someone who is more of a -I don't know, like, because I'd love to get into like a lot of the nitty gritty about positions and kind of like desire and libido changes and things like that. And so I'm like - is a medical doctor maybe the best for this? Like a gynaecologist? Or actually - is somebody else, a different kind of expert? So yeah, need to have a think about that. If you have any suggestions of people who like, you know, talk a lot about sex during pregnancy. Yeah. And also, I think a lot of the kind of like social stuff around it, because some people mentally find it really difficult to have sex during pregnancy, because they're thinking about the proximity of the baby. And other people are like, "Yeah, it's fine. Like, I don't even think about it." I think Dan and I are definitely born in that the second camp. But I have seen some comments on my YouTube channel already and stuff of people being like, "Oh, no, it really freaked me out, like I couldn't really relax" and stuff. So there's that whole part of it as well, which I think is really interesting.
Moog
Yeah, you could get into like, specific like, is there a difference in like, how you feel about sex acts in particular? Like is PIV the one that is causing the most anxiety for people? Or like? Yeah, that would be good. Suggest us people to talk to!
Hannah Witton
Yeah, definitely. All right. Was there anything else that you wanted to chat about in this end of year episode? Not the end of season five, season five will be continuing on into January. And we will end season five at an arbitrary time when we're done. Actually no, it might not actually be an arbitrary time. I think season five we probably will continue up until my maternity leave.
Moog
That's - also that seems like a good stopping point. Yeah. We will already be like scheduling around anyway.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, exactly. There you go. And that's a whole other thing that we need to figure out for next year.
Moog
Yeah, now the podcast goes on for another 20, 25 minutes, while we are like "Okay, let's get into it."
Hannah Witton
Actually, let me put this out there now. This is a soft, ask. This is a soft suggestion to listeners. So we've currently made no solid plans about what's going to happen to the podcast or my content once I have a baby, I definitely do want to take some like, solid time off-off. And then maybe like, slowly come back. But if - if there were to be like, a different host of this podcast for a temporary time, is that something that you would welcome? Is there anyone who immediately springs to mind of like, "Oh my god, this person, obviously." And just how does that feel? I'm just putting it, I'm just putting out feelers at this point. You know, if I had maternity leave cover for the podcast, which I just - honestly just like sounds so hilarious to me, like imagine like someone being like, "Hi, I'm Hannah's maternity leave cover." Like, I love that.
Moog
"Hi, I'm temping."
Hannah Witton
Yeah. But anyway, we've got no solid plans yet. Expect more regular episodes with lots of cool people being interviewed by me next year, early next year. Yeah. Did you have any final thoughts?
Moog
No, I don't think so. To the person who asked me if my username was the username in one of Rachel Maksy's videos: yes, it was and I was very excited about it. She's incredible.
Hannah Witton
Love that. You've been recognised by your Instagram handle in other videos, that's brilliant.
Moog
I was like, "That's me! I asked the question about a dog."
Hannah Witton
I love that. All right, dear listeners. Whether you're celebrating Christmas or not, like whatever you're up to for it, I hope you have a good time. I hope you have a good New Year's, if that's a thing you care about as well. And yeah, we'll see you come January. I think we're taking like two weeks off, two or three weeks. But yeah, we'll be back with more episodes in the new year. Thank you for listening. And thank you Moog for joining me on this end of year extravaganza.
Moog
Thank you for having me back.
Hannah Witton
And for all of your work on the podcast
Moog
Just, just thanking me for this, this appearance and for nothing else, I get it.
Hannah Witton
But all of your hard work in 2021 on the podcast. We love to see it. Alright, thank you and goodbye. Merry Christmas. Happy new year!
Moog
Bye!