Cervical Cancer with Karen Hobbs | Transcript
Find the episode shownotes here!
Hannah Witton
Oh my God, there must be like so many different words for it depending on what orifice the camera is going into.
Karen Hobbs
So you're anal and I'm vaginal, cause they're the kind of girls we are.
Hannah Witton
Welcome to Doing It with me, Hannah Witton, where we talk all things sex, relationships, dating, and our bodies. Welcome back to Doing It. In this episode, I chat with Karen Hobbs about her experience with cervical cancer. She was diagnosed at the age of 24, and we talk through the process of how she got the diagnosis, what symptoms she was experiencing, the stigma around having a gynae cancer that is caused by sexual activity, and the treatment that followed. We even talk about the fact that I'm due my next cervical smear because I had my first one when I got the letter, just before I turned 25 and four days after recording this episode, lo and behold, there was my letter, asking me to come in for my second cervical screening. I'm currently recording this whilst I'm in New York, but be sure listeners, as soon as I get home, I will be booking that appointment. It is so important to attend your cervical smears. Karen is a comedian so even though we're talking about cancer in this episode, I have to say I think it's a very funny episode. Karen is hilarious. And she also works for the Eve Appeal, who are the only UK National charity raising awareness and funding research into the five gynaecological cancers, womb, ovarian, cervical, vulval, and vaginal. Is vulval even a word? I don't know. Also this episode is being posted during Stand Up To Cancer's fortnight of fundraising which is happening from the 11th to the 25th of October, there will be links in the show notes for more information about that as well, and how you can get involved and do some of your own fundraising. Thank you so much for listening. If you want to join in the conversations around the themes we talked about in episodes then please do follow us on social media, and get in touch @DoingItPodcast. And please leave a rating and review on iTunes, it really really helps.
Hannah Witton
Thank you so much for joining me!
Karen Hobbs
You're welcome.
Hannah Witton
We're going to talk about your cervix and your vulva.
Karen Hobbs
Or lack of.
Hannah Witton
Yeah. So how have you come about to not have a cervix? How did that happen?
Karen Hobbs
Start at the beginning, shall we.
Hannah Witton
Please do
Karen Hobbs
So I was 24, so four and a bit years ago, although you wouldn't be able to tell, I'm glowing. I was bleeding a little bit in between periods and after sex, but that wasn't crazy unusual for me because I'd been on the pill for years and had back to backed pill packets when I'd been on holiday.
Hannah Witton
Right.
Karen Hobbs
And had a bit of a bleed through. I was also bleeding after sex, and I'd bled a couple of times after sex before, obviously if you're a bit dry or you know not quite ready and so it wasn't crazy that I was bleeding this time around. But it kind of kept happening and the blood after sex was very fresh and bright and it wasn't what it what it had been before, if that makes sense.
Hannah Witton
It wasn't like leftover uterine lining.
Karen Hobbs
No it wasn't that dark brown gunk on the end of his penis, it wasn't that.
Hannah Witton
It was, this is fresh blood.
Karen Hobbs
It was like someone had just cut one of us and it was all over the bed and everywhere and my boyfriend at the time, who was the person I was sleeping with, was like oh is it because my dick's too big.
Hannah Witton
Oh, classic
Karen Hobbs
I was like, okay yeah cuz that's the thing.
Hannah Witton
Your dick is too vague and razor sharp.
Karen Hobbs
Yeah it's got razor blades at the end of it, that'll be it'll. It'll be size and razor blades, I was very unfortunate to be with him, for many reasons.
Hannah Witton
How do you do that?
Karen Hobbs
He's a hideous person. And he's about to turn 51.
Hannah Witton
What?
Karen Hobbs
I know, he's a lot older, and I don't have daddy issues. I really don't, I just had lunch with my dad, anyway. So I thought this is a bit more than what I've normally gone through. So I went on to Google.
Hannah Witton
Classic.
Karen Hobbs
Yeah, I hate Dr. Google because the horror stories are on the internet, aren't they. If you have a bad meal at a restaurant, I'm not describing fucking me to having a meal, but delicious starter.
Hannah Witton
Main course did hurt.
Karen Hobbs
We didn't stay for dessert. No, but you put the bad things on the internet, don't you, if you have a bad experience, you write about it.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, you never hear about when that lump was nothing.
Karen Hobbs
No, course you don't, because that person is getting on with their life.
Hannah Witton
Yeah.
Karen Hobbs
So I read the horror stories. Bleeding after sex, put onto Google, and all sorts of things came up, it could have been anything from like chlamydia that had gone into pelvic inflammatory disease -
Hannah Witton
Which is bad.
Karen Hobbs
Which is bad and it needs to be looked after because it can sometimes cause like the fallopian tubes to scar and then people get you know problems with fertility. So it's serious stuff, but not irreversible, you can get out. All sorts of things, it could have been something called cervical erosion or ectropion. So that's when the cells kind of in the glandular tunnel of the cervix come out onto the outside of the cervix, the bit that you would see if you examine someone. That can bleed with a hormonal imbalance, so there were loads of reasons why it could have been bleeding. So I booked myself into a doctor's appointment, went for an STI check first because I could get that appointment sooner.
Hannah Witton
Just a process of elimination.
Karen Hobbs
Exactly. I didn't think I had an STI, but you never know.
Hannah Witton
Never know.
Karen Hobbs
Because you can't trust anyone, Hannah. What a nice message, if there's anything to take away from this, don't trust anybody.
Hannah Witton
This is the learning that we are doing here today.
Karen Hobbs
Yeah, screw the cervix, it's all about trust, we'll fall into each other's arms in a minute. For the trust exercise, not in like a weird creepy embrace, we've only just met. So I went for an STI check, to cut a very long story a bit shorter, I didn't have an STI. I didn't think I did. But they said we could see something on the cervix so do go to your GP. Went to the GP. She examined me and said yep, I can see something on the cervix, it looks very inflamed.
Hannah Witton
By examined you, was that a cervical smear or screen?
Karen Hobbs
Yeah, so it was the same as what someone would have when they go for a smear. So it was naked from the waist down, speculum, having a look with speculum, having it sort of open so she can look at it through the vagina, into the cervix.
Hannah Witton
Okay, and they took us like a swab as well?
Karen Hobbs
Yeah, they took the brush, they took a sample.
Hannah Witton
But visibly, they could be like, ah, this is different.
Karen Hobbs
Yeah. So she said, we're not going to wait for the results. I'm going to refer you to a hospital without kind of waiting for the paperwork to come back with the results, because she could see something was the matter. So went for a colposcopy, which is a camera up the vagina, to look at the cervix. Have you had one?
Hannah Witton
No, because I've -
Karen Hobbs
You looked delighted when I said colposcopy.
Hannah Witton
I've had a colonoscopy.
Karen Hobbs
For your bum.
Hannah Witton
Up my on my bum. I didn't realise that's what it's - so oh my god, that must be like so many different words for it, depending on what orifice the camera is going in.
Karen Hobbs
So you're anal, and I'm vaginal, cause they're the kind of girls we are. I love a bit of bum.
Hannah Witton
Yeah.
Karen Hobbs
And yes, it's a camera up to look at the cervix, and it's a really common procedure, so if anybody has an abnormal cervical screening, that's what you'll have to go for. It's not, I don't want people to listen and think, oh my god, a colposcopy means you have cancer.
Hannah Witton
No.
Karen Hobbs
It doesn't.
Hannah Witton
It's just abnormal cells can mean a lot of different things.
Karen Hobbs
Yeah. And you have to have colposcopies for many reasons to be examined. So don't panic. But -
Hannah Witton
And how far does the camera go up? Does it just go to your cervix, or does it go through your cervix into your uterus?
Karen Hobbs
So you could have a similar examination into the uterus, but then we would call that a hysteroscopy because it's the womb.
Hannah Witton
Yes.
Karen Hobbs
So the lady who was examining me, the doctor, did the colposcopy and I was panicking at this point, because cancer was one of the things that it could have been, and I didn't have an STI, so we were kind of gradually sort of eliminating things.
Hannah Witton
Did you go by yourself?
Karen Hobbs
Yes, I did.
Hannah Witton
Was that like nerve racking, or?
Karen Hobbs
It was, but that's because I'd seen the word cancer on the internet, and I've done a drama degree. So I'm very dramatic. Do you know what I mean? Like, and I think hospitals can be quite stressful and I wasn't -
Hannah Witton
It's all very clinical, you might not have necessarily - because you'd like in and out for a procedure -
Karen Hobbs
You're not hanging out there, relaxing.
Hannah Witton
Yeah. And you might not necessarily get time to, like spend with a nurse to I don't know, process the emotional side of things as well as. It's like, bish bosh
Karen Hobbs
You're so right. It's a procedure, isn't it. Yeah. So I was I was nervous, and I and you know, the hospital is massive and you know, the floors, your shoes squeak on them. And, you know, you can smell the antiseptic when you get on the bed and take your clothes off.
Hannah Witton
And ill people everywhere.
Karen Hobbs
It is quite -I think your senses are heightened quite a lot. So the lovely lady after a couple of minutes, she said, I'm just going to get someone more senior.
Hannah Witton
Oh, those words that you want to hear.
Karen Hobbs
I was like, oh fuck, yeah, because I thought it was probably at this point, it's likely it was the ectropion and erosion I told you about. Because it's really common for young people to have that, especially if they're on something like the pill -
Hannah Witton
Because it's the hormonal imbalance thing.
Karen Hobbs
Exactly. So she thought it was probably that as well, and was kind of reassuring me you know, as I was like, peeling my knickers off. I was like, do I have cancer? No, you're fine. Probably. And then someone in a suit, a Mr came in.
Hannah Witton
Oh, that's when you know they're senior, because they're no longer a doctor, they're now a Mr again.
Karen Hobbs
Which I think doesn't make sense, because surely you work to be a doctor. You don't work to go back to the name that you were born with. I know it's like a superiority thing.
Hannah Witton
Yeah there's like a weird history of it, because isn't it originally doctors are just people with PhDs.
Karen Hobbs
Really?
Hannah Witton
And then a medical doctor came after that. But then because surgeons are always called Mr, I believe, and like I don't I don't know.
Karen Hobbs
I believe so too.
Hannah Witton
Again, listeners, please let us know.
Karen Hobbs
Mr came in, had a look, took a biopsy, which is small tissue sample, it can be from any part of the body, that's not -
Hannah Witton
Oh, wait, were you sedated for this actually, because I love sedation stories.
Karen Hobbs
No, I wasn't, but I've been sedated many times since. No, I wasn't sedated for this.
Hannah Witton
Did it hurt, that procedure?
Karen Hobbs
It didn't not hurt but like I bled a little bit afterwards, which again, it's really common if you have a biopsy in that areas, I needed a sort of pad.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, because that's them like pinching a bit of -
Karen Hobbs
Cervix out of you.
Hannah Witton
Yeah.
Karen Hobbs
I kind of made I think maybe they numbed the area with some local anaesthetic, but you know when things blur, and you can't, I can't quite tell you what happened. He took a biopsy. Exactly. He did a biopsy. So get dressed, come and have a seat, and I sat down and, because I'd seen the word on the internet, and he'd been brought in, I just said, is it cancer? And he said, we have to wait for the results of the biopsy. It will take two weeks, which is obviously fair enough.
Hannah Witton
But also that waiting period
Karen Hobbs
But also it was the worst two weeks ever. And then he said, but I - because I was pushing because I needed to know.
Hannah Witton
The chances of it.
Karen Hobbs
The chance of it, because what if it, there was no chance or hardly any chance it'd be cancer? Then you know, I'd have gone on holiday or something. So he said, I've been doing this for 30 years, and I'd be surprised if it wasn't cancer.
Hannah Witton
Oh.
Karen Hobbs
Oh, so and then it was, two weeks later. It was, and it was just the worst feeling in the world. There's no way to describe it. It was disgusting, the feeling. You feel like, you feel kind of almost invincible, and you're most vulnerable, all at the same time. You're sweaty, you're dizzy, you can hear everything really clearly, but also like, like get black spots in your eyes. It was just it was pure shock.
Hannah Witton
And when they confirmed that it was cancer, was that over the phone, or did they bring you in?
Karen Hobbs
No, it was it was face to face. Yeah. So they will come back in two weeks. Yeah, it wasn't a sort of phone call. Imagine if I had bad signal. I'd be like, I can't quite -
Hannah Witton
Sorry, what? I'm on a train.
Karen Hobbs
I'll put you on speakerphone. You've got cancer. Yeah, it was it, it was horrible. So two weeks later confirmed, yes, it was cancer. But for me, the worst bit was when it was that first colposcopy appointment, when he said I'd be surprised if it wasn't. That was the, it had gone from zero to everything falling apart. So when he confirmed two weeks later, obviously it was horrible, but it wasn't as shocking as that first time when I'd said, what do you think?
Hannah Witton
Had you like, processed anything in that two weeks? Or were you just like, there's no point in telling people, or making any decisions or about anything right now because you're waiting, or were you'd like in your head like already -
Karen Hobbs
Planning a funeral.
Hannah Witton
Not planning a funeral!
Karen Hobbs
Oh, I got I got some great songs prepared.
Karen Hobbs
The thing is that you don't know how much cancer you've got. So while he said it probably is cancer -
Hannah Witton
Oh my God.
Hannah Witton
That could be -
Karen Hobbs
What does that mean? Cancer is a very scary word, I think for our society to deal with.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, cuz I know someone recently who had skin cancer, but it was literally just in like one mole, on his nose. And just like, got it taken out. And that was it.
Karen Hobbs
But he can still say, I'm a cancer survivor.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, exactly.
Karen Hobbs
It's crazy. It's such a spectrum, isn't it?
Hannah Witton
Because after that happened, I was just like, oh, that like one in two of us will get cancer at some point in our lives, that is so varied from like, you know, years and years of chemo, and then like -
Karen Hobbs
Reoccurance.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, reoccurance, like people don't survive versus like someone who gets a mole on the nose, and then they just get it taken off
Karen Hobbs
A little bop on the nose. Yeah, it's crazy.
Hannah Witton
They're also part of that statistic, like everyone is. It's so varied.
Karen Hobbs
Yeah, so his one in two counts for as much as somebody that died after five years of treatment. Yeah, it's crazy, isn't it? Yeah, it's a huge spectrum. And I'd started to tell people because he'd said it probably was, and I didn't want - and I hadn't even really told many people about sort of the bleeding and going for the colposcopy, so I didn't want to go from, you know, do do do do do, oh, Karen's calling, she's definitely got cancer, and it's this stage, and this is what's happening. So I kind of eased people in.
Hannah Witton
Yeah.
Karen Hobbs
And said, this has happened. It looks like it could be cancer, which I realise isn't easing anyone in. The phonecall is just as crap. But I'd started to sort of sow the seeds, so to speak.
Hannah Witton
Yeah. And then what did they say? Like, what stage it was at, and then what happened next in terms of treatment?
Karen Hobbs
So I was really lucky. And every time I say I was really lucky, I feel partly silly saying I was really lucky because I had cancer at 24. But then I also have seen so many more people since my diagnosis go through so much worse. So I feel like I should say I'm lucky.
Hannah Witton
It's all relative. It's -
Karen Hobbs
Yeah, do you know I mean, I feel like I should say I was lucky, because I've seen so many more people suffer way more than I could ever imagine. So I feel like I I am lucky, of course, I'm sat here being able to talk about it. But yeah, I feel a bit a bit kind of an imposter sometimes when I talk about cancer, because I had it.
Hannah Witton
Yeah.
Karen Hobbs
But I wasn't ill for that long, in the grand scheme of my life, you know what I mean, it's sort of a, do I deserve to talk about it? I don't know.
Hannah Witton
I totally get that Especially like with me, and like, am I disabled enough? Like it's kind of like those kinds of similar like, I don't belong in this conversation.
Karen Hobbs
Yeah.
Hannah Witton
Other people have had it way worse than me. But I think that -
Karen Hobbs
Do you classify yourself as disabled?
Hannah Witton
So I do.
Karen Hobbs
Yeah. So that's, you're entitled to
Hannah Witton
And do you identify as a cancer survivor?
Karen Hobbs
Yeah. I think it's very silently high five. But that's what happened to you.
Hannah Witton
And also like, that's what actually happened to you, like the actual like, and then this procedure, and then this diagnosis, and then this thing, that doesn't give necessarily a full picture about like the effect on your mental state, and your emotional wellbeing as well. And like, the exact same, you know, the exact same happenings, to two different people, may react in entirely different ways and be affected by it differently, I think as well.
Karen Hobbs
Yeah, there's no kind of one sort of clear pathway or template of what a cancer, I hate the word journey, but I'm gonna, I'm gonna say it, my cancer journey. My cancer -
Hannah Witton
Say in that voice.
Karen Hobbs
My cancer journey, I feel like I'm an aircraft person, doing some sort of simulation. Yeah. And so he said it was cancer, then I had to have a scan, MRI scan to find out how much cancer I had, because it was, yes, but he couldn't see into the rest of my body, so didn't know if it had spread.
Hannah Witton
Oh, I see.
Karen Hobbs
So couldn't quite say what the stageing was. So I had to have an MRI scan, and I hadn't had one before. Have you had one?
Hannah Witton
I think I have. I've had a lot of procedures.
Karen Hobbs
It's the one that goes duh duh duh duh duh. You think you hold your breath, then they go, duh duh duh duh duh.
Hannah Witton
Yeah.
Karen Hobbs
Breathe again. And then hold again.
Hannah Witton
Because they're like talking to you in through the tube.
Karen Hobbs
Yeah, and you've got a headphone in some of the time.
Hannah Witton
Yeah.
Karen Hobbs
So I had to go for that to see if it had spread. So had an MRI scan, and I didn't, this is the thing I didn't know much about my gynae anatomy, and vagina, and all of that good stuff. You know, I don't know why I did a shimmy but yeah, shake my tits. I didn't know much about that area at all, until it broke.
Hannah Witton
And now you're an expert.
Karen Hobbs
And now I'm an expert. So I didn't know, yeah, I really knew next to nothing, but they basically, I didn't realise you know how, like, if you touch your boobs, they're right there.
Hannah Witton
Right there.
Karen Hobbs
If you touch your throat, you can feel like your Adam's apple.
Hannah Witton
Yeah
Karen Hobbs
Your brain is kind of there and your skull, I didn't realise how far into our bodies, the cervix, womb, and ovaries are. I just I may be stupid, but I just imagine saying you just sort of shaved the first layer of skin, and it just be there. I just didn't know -
Hannah Witton
Is it quite far in then?
Karen Hobbs
It's kind of set quite far in.
Hannah Witton
Cause like, if you're going you know, you go in the vagina and it's back and up.
Karen Hobbs
Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So you'll go sort of in the vagina and also like for example, I didn't know and so obviously the vagina is the inside sort of tunnel connecting vulva to to uterus.
Hannah Witton
Yeah.
Karen Hobbs
I didn't know that it's not a kind of permanently open little tube.
Hannah Witton
No, yeah cuz -
Karen Hobbs
Isn't it facinating.
Hannah Witton
The walls are like flat against each other.
Karen Hobbs
Yeah, then it's eased open with penis, tampon, speculum, fingers, toys, whatever. But I in my I thought it was like a little tube that was just open and then you shove in whatever you're shoving in. But actually it's closed, and then it's opened up.
Hannah Witton
I think it was in my 20s when I figured that out.
Karen Hobbs
Yeah, it's crazy, isn't it? Do you remember how you figured it out?
Hannah Witton
Yeah, I don't know cuz I think because I've been like studying and teaching sex education for a while, it just maybe came up at some point and I was like, oh yeah, that makes that makes sense.
Karen Hobbs
Of course it does. It's not just gonna be a permanently open little tunnel, just ready to pop whatever.
Hannah Witton
Because then you would like fanny fart way more often. So if you think about it, like if it was like a gaping tunnel hole all of the time, the amount of air going in and then out.
Karen Hobbs
It makes total sense. Do you know what I love doing? I love to fanny fart in the bath.
Hannah Witton
Oh that's so satisfying.
Karen Hobbs
It's so satisfying, and your bum kind of vibrates on whatever what's the bath made out of? Certainly not ceramic like porcelain, no whatever your bath has made of. The bath material and you sort of vibrate often as bubbles come up, I love it.
Hannah Witton
I once did a fanny fart when I was in a spa, and I was wearing a full swimming costume, just lying down in the water just like peaceful peaceful peaceful. The fanny fart came out, didn't couldn't quite escape out of my swimming costume at the bottom, climbed its way up my swimming costume, all the way up my front, and then came out at the cleavage, and bubbled at the surface of the water, right next to my face.
Karen Hobbs
So you bubbled at your tits! It clawed it's way -
Hannah Witton
I could like feel the air bubble -
Karen Hobbs
I'd say it's kind of less embarrassing if someone just saw you swimming and it came out of your arse.
Hannah Witton
No one noticed until I was like pissing myself laughing, and then you're in this like really serene spa, and I'm just like hahahaha.
Karen Hobbs
I love it so yeah, I feel a bit impostery, but anyway, I was lucky in the grand scheme of things. Didn't know like sort of how far in that anatomy is, and it's quite far sort of into your body so the MRI scan, and I was really happy because they said oh it doesn't show anything, and I was like oh I haven't got cancer at all. And they meant, no it showed literally nothing, as in it was not - because it was just obviously external, it couldn't make out much of that area at all. So that I had to have an EUA, which is an examination under anaesthetic.
Hannah Witton
Full anaesthetic?
Karen Hobbs
Full anaesthetic, had a great nap. I woke up starving, I'm always starving after, are you?
Hannah Witton
Most of the time, yes, but that's only because I've not been allowed to eat beforehand.
Karen Hobbs
Maybe it's that. Do you know what, that's it, isn't it. I'm honestly, I'm learning a fact a minute.
Hannah Witton
Because you're not allowed to eat beforehand.
Karen Hobbs
For hours beforehand. That's so true. You're so wise.
Hannah Witton
I've had lots of anaesthetic.
Karen Hobbs
How many anaesthetics have you had?
Hannah Witton
Well, I had my first one when I was seven.
Karen Hobbs
Great.
Hannah Witton
And then just like quite regularly since then, and I'm now 27.
Karen Hobbs
It's weird that you get used to it, isn't it? It's something.
Hannah Witton
I really enjoy it.
Karen Hobbs
Yeah.
Hannah Witton
Is that weird? I'm just like, yes, put a cannula in my hand and put me to sleep.
Karen Hobbs
Do you think it's because it's normal for you now, so it's kind of if you don't enjoy it, you're going to bring yourself even more stress.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, whereas I don't know, I quite like it. I think always because any anaesthetic I've had, it's either I've woken up either with some answers, like a diagnosis, or or like a care plan, like I've woken up and they've gone right yes, we confirm that this is what's going on. Okay, now we're going to make you better. Or I've woken up post surgery and they've fixed the problem, basically. So like for me like going under -
Karen Hobbs
It's a great day out.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, going under is like, I don't know it's so far, touch wood again, has always had some kind of positive outcome. Yeah. So yeah.
Karen Hobbs
So yeah, anyway, an examination under the status so it was basically a camera up all three holes.
Hannah Witton
Wait, so your urethra, your vagina, and your anus?
Karen Hobbs
Yes. So the bum one is called a sigmoidoscopy.
Hannah Witton
You can say that you've taken it three holes at the same time
Karen Hobbs
I know. I've had three at the same time.
Hannah Witton
Although I wouldn't actually recommend anyone putting anything at their urethra like -
Karen Hobbs
No, I wouldn't either.
Hannah Witton
You can though, because there's like these weird, like sex toys that are really really thin -
Karen Hobbs
I thought they were just for men.
Hannah Witton
I think they might be, just because I think their pee hole is a bit wider than ours.
Karen Hobbs
I don't think I'd even want one one person up my bum and the other in my vagina at the same time.
Hannah Witton
That sounds stressful.
Karen Hobbs
It's too, it's also -
Hannah Witton
Would they meet in the middle?
Karen Hobbs
Yeah, they're sort of, hello. The little penis heads inside you have a little chat.
Hannah Witton
Between your rectum wall and your vaginal wall.
Karen Hobbs
The one that's going up the arse will be jealous that the other one's not gonna be covered in shit as it comes out.
Hannah Witton
Fun fun fun fun fun fun.
Karen Hobbs
So camera up all three holes because if it was gonna have spread, it was spread to like colon, bladder, womb.
Hannah Witton
The immediate area.
Karen Hobbs
Exactly, pelvic area. So I woke up from that and they said it hadn't spread. Good, amazing. So then they staged it at stage one, which was good because it hadn't grown out with the primary area. So stage one and grade three. So the grading is the kind of -
Hannah Witton
Oh, I've never heard that before.
Karen Hobbs
Sort of severity of the tumor. So, one, two and three. So stage one - it was a late stage one. So almost stage two, late stage one, grade three. So small, but nasty.
Hannah Witton
Okay, so stages is about how far it's spread.
Karen Hobbs
Exactly.
Hannah Witton
And grade is about how severe.
Karen Hobbs
The kind of the type of tumor it is. So someone with a stage four cancer, it means it's metastasized, is you know, it's all over the body. And then grade one, two or three. So a tumour can be, you know, stage two grade one. So it means it's spread a bit, but what's in it isn't as aggressive. Do you know, to me, that's kind of -
Hannah Witton
Oh, I've never heard of those two different things really measure. Yeah, I only heard the stages.
Karen Hobbs
There's a lot of confusion and crossover, so I'm not surprised that sometimes people get it. But I know when people tell me what they've had, I think that's not right. You can't have that, you know. So small, but nasty, which was good, because it meant it was contained. So I had surgery a few weeks later, called a radical trachelectomy.
Hannah Witton
Radical
Karen Hobbs
Radical. I gave that word. No, I didn't, it's actually called radical trachelectomy. And that basically takes out all of the cervix, the surrounding tissue, because they have to check the margins, and the top third of my vagina. And then they took out lymph nodes, as well, to see if because basically, if the cancer is in your lymph nodes, you would need chemotherapy, or radiotherapy, or a combination.
Hannah Witton
And lymph nodes are -
Karen Hobbs
Lymph nodes are like, I say -
Hannah Witton
That's where you like sweat from, isn't it? Because you've got some in your armpit.
Karen Hobbs
And they they're kind of the lymphatic system. So you know how sometimes people have sort of swollen legs or ankles or something. So that means that there's lymphedema, which is like kind of retention, essentially. So sometimes I think of lymph nodes, and the lymphatic system as like a tube map. So lymph nodes are like the stations.
Hannah Witton
Right, yes.
Karen Hobbs
On the tube map. So basically, if you had cancer in the lymph nodes, then you would need to put in chemo and radio or a combination to clear the train station so that it be put into the map put into your system, essentially. But if one is removed, so a collection of them were removed to test them. So if a couple of train stations, this isn't going very well is it. So if a couple of tube stations were removed from the map, the things that connected to them, yeah, what are they supposed to do?
Hannah Witton
I don't know.
Karen Hobbs
So therefore they can go a bit haywire. And that's when things like lymphedema can occur, because they're sort of they've been, the system has been broken. If that makes sense.
Hannah Witton
And they're just confused.
Karen Hobbs
I say it's not my strongest subject area, the lymphatic system.
Hannah Witton
Neither of us are medical doctors.
Karen Hobbs
No, we're not. Let's just let's. So didn't need chemo or radio or a combination, which is great, because it wasn't in my lymph nodes. So that meant the surgery, touch wood, did the job.
Hannah Witton
We're going to talk just like now more about like, all your genitals and reproductive bits now.
Karen Hobbs
Yeah, let's do it
Hannah Witton
Does that mean like, did they reconnect what's left of your vagina and your womb? Or are they like separate entities now? Like, can you get pregnant if you want to get pregnant? And like, what conversations did the doctors have with you about all of that beforehand?
Karen Hobbs
So yeah, so obviously cervix connects vagina to womb.
Hannah Witton
Yeah.
Karen Hobbs
So that was removed, and what was kind of sort of put in place was a tiny little stitch, basically kind of pulling the walls in, of what was left over, so that a period could still come out.
Hannah Witton
Oh yeah, of course, because you still have to have periods
Karen Hobbs
So I have to have periods, because my womb and ovaries, again for the millionth fucking time touch wood, my womb and ovaries weren't affected.
Karen Hobbs
So my cervix and vaginal were, the vulva, womb, and overies weren't.
Hannah Witton
Yeah
Hannah Witton
Yeah.
Karen Hobbs
So would, in theory, I mean, my periods didn't come back for a little while, because obviously your bodies gone through a shock and trauma. But in theory, and they have come back, and so they need to allow a little gap for the period flow to come out. And then, if I wanted to try and get pregnant, sperm to come in. So they needed to allow a gap. The stitch was put in place, but the stitch has broken since, which happens in about 50% of the people that have the operation. It just means that if I thought, okay, I'm going to try for a baby, I would have to go and have that stitch put in before I started trying.
Hannah Witton
So what does, I need to get my head around the stitch. I don't quite understand. So it's so because in my head, it's like cervix gets taken out. So it's like there's like a gap in the railway track. Like literally, there is like a bridge that has been knocked down. So how do you get from one side to the other? Or is it not completely, like you're not just like taken out half of it.
Karen Hobbs
So they're still kind of sort of, there's still kind of sort of surrounding muscles and things. So think of it like, so say you've got a bathtub. So think the cervix is the plug.
Hannah Witton
Yeah.
Karen Hobbs
So if you take the plug and the surrounding metal, which are the margins, out you've got a gap, but you've still got this sort of ceramic, whatever the bath is made out of. I don't know what baths are made out of, Hannah.
Hannah Witton
And the tunnel and the tube and everything.
Karen Hobbs
Exactly, yes. So it's not kind of this gaping mess.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, but just not the gap in the system. Which is how I was picturing it in my head.
Karen Hobbs
There is in a sense that there's not a cervix there, but it's not like a sort of gaping hole. It's all more sort of squashed, and squishy, and together. Like, you know, how about the vagina is not just a gaping tunnel.
Hannah Witton
Because it's so interesting like how all of the diagrams, if you like, if we've ever had any decent sex education, or you just look it up online afterwards, everything is either is like those internal diagrams. Like I don't actually know what the uterus and the vagina looks like, as an organ, like from the outside.
Karen Hobbs
Yeah, I totally understand.
Hannah Witton
So you're basically, so your tunnel, as if we were if we were looking at your like reproductive organs from the outside.
Karen Hobbs
Yeah
Hannah Witton
It looks intact.
Karen Hobbs
Yes. Right. Well, so say you were in. So we've gone through my vulva into the vagina, right?
Hannah Witton
I'm imagining going into your vulva
Karen Hobbs
We're going in. We both just kind of made it look like we're sort of birthing ourselves
Hannah Witton
Like diving.
Karen Hobbs
We are, muff dive. Am I right? So say you go into the vagina, you're going up the tunnels, sort of parting your way.
Hannah Witton
And also you're like, Karen is now like, moving her hands in a way that is like a sperm swimming up there, like that is what's happening.
Karen Hobbs
Or a very wonderful female synchronised swimmer.
Hannah Witton
Yeah.
Karen Hobbs
Boo to men. No, I love men. So say you're going sort of up, parting the vagina as you go. In someone that hadn't had my surgery, I was about to say normal, but what is normal nowadays? So yeah. Someone that had someone that has a cervix.
Hannah Witton
Yeah.
Karen Hobbs
You would get to the end of the vaginal tunnel. And you would see head on what looks like, like a donut.
Hannah Witton
Right, yes.
Karen Hobbs
With a little gap. The gap there is in size, depending on whether you're menstruating or not, or giving birth.
Hannah Witton
And this is the bit that they're referring to, that dilates when you're giving birth.
Karen Hobbs
Yes, exactly, the cervix dilates. I used to, this just shows how shit my sex education was, I used to think it was a vagina.
Hannah Witton
I used to think it was a vagina. I also was in my 20s when I figured this out.
Karen Hobbs
Because I thought you know how we've, you're gonna think the exact same thing.
Hannah Witton
Like in the movies when they say, you're only 7cm dilated, and I thought that meant vagina.
Karen Hobbs
Yeah, exactly. So whenever I heard dilation, I thought, like, obviously, vaginal hole.
Hannah Witton
They never mentioned the word cervix on Friends.
Karen Hobbs
They just say dilated.
Hannah Witton
Yeah.
Karen Hobbs
I just imagine if you looked in the mirror, you'd see this gaping hole in your body.
Hannah Witton
Yeah.
Karen Hobbs
Like, like swallowing up your thighs and stuff, just like crevice.
Hannah Witton
10 centimetres.
Karen Hobbs
Christ, that's massive. I thought it like ate into the anal area. But it's cervix. So go through the tunnel, you see a doughnut ahead of you, if you squeeze through the little hole in the doughnut, or if it's a bigger hole, if the person happens to be giving birth or menstruating, whatever that time. You would go through the little hole in the donunt, and then in the womb.
Hannah Witton
Yeah.
Karen Hobbs
So going up the tunnel, the tunnel is now shorter. The top third has been removed. So you would get to the affected area quicker. And instead of seeing a donut, you would see a sort of little, almost plasticky, stitch that you would, that was kind of still allowing a little hole.
Hannah Witton
Yeah.
Karen Hobbs
So you would go through the hole.
Hannah Witton
But pulling it all together, so it's still a small hole.
Karen Hobbs
Exactly. So you'd still go through a little hole. But instead of donut around you, it'd be kind of stitching around you. If that makes.
Hannah Witton
So it's basically like a vaginal safety pin.
Karen Hobbs
Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's like a safety pin. So instead of a doughnut, there's a safety pin in that. Yeah, think of it like that. But it broke. So I would have to have one put back in if I wanted to try and have a baby, because obviously that would be the thing that would hold the baby in.
Hannah Witton
Hold it in.
Karen Hobbs
So the cervix is amazing,
Hannah Witton
Because when the baby pushing down, and the cervix is helping to like yeah, make sure nothing's like falling out of it
Karen Hobbs
Exactly. So I, yeah, I've never been pregnant, that I know of. Because apparently, and I did not know this. So lots of people apparently have miscarriages really early on in pregnancies, but it just feels like a normal period. Like when it's a few days, or a week or so, something, I never knew anything like that. So when I say I haven't been pregnant before -
Hannah Witton
That you know of.
Karen Hobbs
That I know of, yeah. That's kind of like to the lads, how many kids have you got. None, that I know of. So I don't if I've been pregnant, I don't know. So I don't know how fertile I am. But my fertility hasn't been affected by the surgery.
Hannah Witton
Okay.
Karen Hobbs
But that sounds like oh, it'll just be as easy as it ever would have been. But there's about a third of a chance that if I got pregnant, it wouldn't end up in a happy smiling situation. So because the stitch can break obviously, quite easily.
Hannah Witton
Right, especially with maybe pressure on it.
Karen Hobbs
Exactly. So there's not, not a high chance, because it's, you know, a third ish, but there's a chance that there would be kind of a very late miscarriage/premature birth because stitch would break, and there would be complications.
Hannah Witton
But I'm sure that if you were ever to get pregnant, they would monitor the hell out of that whole situation.
Karen Hobbs
Exactly. They don't just go, put a stitch in. Like, hello doctor, I'd like to try for baby, put a stitch in, you know, like see me when -
Karen Hobbs
And I'd have to have a caesarean.
Hannah Witton
Like, off you go!
Hannah Witton
Because there's no way for it to -
Karen Hobbs
- cervix to dilate. Which is fine, and people like, Karen, you'll never experience the magic of natural childbirth.
Hannah Witton
And you're like, thank God for that.
Karen Hobbs
Thank fuck, that's wonderful. How do you feel? Fucking brilliant
Hannah Witton
Like great. Oh my God, you will get an elective caesarean as well, so you actually get to pick the birthday.
Karen Hobbs
How thrilling. The thing is, I don't like kids. Plot twist. Like, honestly, I know, we were talking before and I, Hannah's got a gecko.
Hannah Witton
Yeah.
Karen Hobbs
And I've got a cat, and she's not keen on cats and dogs. And I was gonna say it was an initial obstacle for me. But I was already here.
Hannah Witton
In this friendship.
Karen Hobbs
Yeah, I travelled. So here I am. Yeah, I just the thing is you don't, I mean, of course, if you want to have a kid at 24, or even younger, that's up to you, whatever. Yeah, great. I was 24, and hadn't even thought about -
Hannah Witton
Any of that.
Karen Hobbs
Gosh, you know, going to be a mum soon. And also the guy I was going out with at the time -
Hannah Witton
Was much older.
Karen Hobbs
Was such a prick, Hannah. Such a prick. I mean, it wasn't that he was older that I didn't wanna have kids with me. It was that he was a piece of shit that I didn't want to have kids with him. Like, you know, I was in that situation. So I my - and obviously, I know you don't have to have a partner to have a baby. But -
Hannah Witton
Not these days.
Karen Hobbs
Not these days. Very modern times. But um, I just assumed that if I did, I would, and it was him that I was with, so that was just a no go.
Hannah Witton
You were like, absolutely not.
Karen Hobbs
I mean, the warning signs were there, weren't they.I'm relaying this thinking, why was I with him? So it just wasn't a thing that crossed my mind. So some surgeries, gynae, sort of cancer surgeries, they try, if the person is of, air quotes, "childbearing age", that can mean so many different things. But if someone hasn't had children, and is probably fertile, and of childbearing age, they will try and preserve the fertility. Because that's what makes the world go around.
Hannah Witton
That's so interesting. But in some cases, they just have, like, if it was too -
Karen Hobbs
Of course, it would never be at compromise of the woman.
Hannah Witton
Yeah.
Karen Hobbs
Or the person because going through the surgery.
Hannah Witton
Because that's almost a bit scary, where you're like, ooh, do we like, definitely remove all the cancer? Or do we take a risk, just to make sure that she can potentially still have kids?
Karen Hobbs
Exactly. And they would, and they wouldn't do that. But, um, so if I said, basically, if I was a bit older, and so say I was in my 50s, and have gone through this, they would have just whipped it all out, because it's just easier. I'd have probably gone through the menopause anyway.
Hannah Witton
Yeah.
Karen Hobbs
So my overies and womb weren't in use, sort of thing.
Hannah Witton
So you got you're specific surgery because they're like, just in case.
Karen Hobbs
Yeah. And it was safe, and the tumour was small enough. So of course, lots of young people have a gynae cancer, and don't get to keep some of their gynae anatomia. But if it's safe, then -
Hannah Witton
They'll do their best
Karen Hobbs
Yeah, because it obviously means I didn't have to go through menopause. Like, so many people I know who have gone through gynae issues, not even cancer, just issues -
Hannah Witton
Then you'll go into early menopause.
Karen Hobbs
And that and sort of surgical menopause is so much harder as well.
Hannah Witton
Must be harder.
Karen Hobbs
Yeah, you're slammed into it, because it's not like your ovaries are just gradually over five years, releasing less oestrogen, and we're all gradually sort of drying up.
Hannah Witton
It's just like, nothing.
Karen Hobbs
Yeah. And there's, there's this there's a phrase in the community, slammed into the menopause.
Hannah Witton
Oh, really.
Karen Hobbs
So I'm really lucky. So it's not even the kids thing. It's kind of health, and also when you go through the menopause, your risk of things like osteoporosis increase, and then you have to go on HRT, and that can mess - oh, it's, you know, there were so many more complications than just, do I want a kid or not?
Hannah Witton
Yeah.
Karen Hobbs
So I feel, again, very lucky that I just had cervix and vagina tampered with, because the recovery process physically would have been so much harder if I'd have to go through anything more.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, I have some like quickfire questions.
Karen Hobbs
Oh, my God, great.
Hannah Witton
Yeah.
Karen Hobbs
You're like, shut up, Karen
Hannah Witton
Like things that I'm curious about and -
Karen Hobbs
I will answer anything.
Hannah Witton
Yeah. Because the one thing I'm very curious about. So you have, and this is just me being very nosy.
Karen Hobbs
No, please do.
Hannah Witton
You have two thirds of the original length of your vagina.
Karen Hobbs
Yeah.
Hannah Witton
Is sex different?
Karen Hobbs
Yes. So it is. So prior to, so I've, I was able, and I'm still able, to have a vaginal orgasm. So I know a lot of people with vaginas don't orgasm vaginally, some do some don't. I feel like I'm in AA, or VA, Vaginas Anonymous. Hello, I'm a vaginal orgasmer. So yeah, it felt different. So going to the toilet, and having sex, the kind of functions that feel different.
Hannah Witton
I thought you were about to be like, going to the toilet and having sex at the same time. I was like, what? How do you do that?
Karen Hobbs
So you know like when you're in the toilet, and you're fucking like - could you imagine if you were piss - no, do you know what could happen? You could be, right -
Hannah Witton
Picture this.
Karen Hobbs
You must be able to either have sex vaginally and do a poo same time, or anally and pee.
Hannah Witton
Some people want that.
Karen Hobbs
Because I don't think -
Hannah Witton
You could also probably pee whilst having vaginal sex.
Karen Hobbs
I don't think you can. I think it, I mean, I don't know.
Hannah Witton
Sometimes I feel like I want to
Karen Hobbs
But do you not hate starting sexual activity when you almost need a wee.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, you have to go and let it out.
Karen Hobbs
And I can't get aroused and I'll get all tense and I can't concentrate.+
Hannah Witton
Sometimes though, if I, and a lot of the time has happens when I'm like walking, like home or to the tube or whatever. I'm like, do I really need a wee right now? Or am I horny? Like, I can't tell.
Karen Hobbs
That's so true. Is it of a sort of pressure within? Yeah.
Hannah Witton
Yeah.
Karen Hobbs
Pelvic pressure.
Hannah Witton
And usually it is that I need a wee, but because in my head, I'm like, oh, am I also horny, then that then makes me horny.
Karen Hobbs
Yeah. Because as soon as you say, am I horny, you start thinking about stuff that makes you horny. And then you just, we're just sat here horny, what are we like.
Hannah Witton
Horny, horny, horny.
Karen Hobbs
Us girls, horny with orange squash.
Hannah Witton
You got diagnosed when you're 24. And in this country, you don't get your first like letter to go get your cervical screening till you're 25, or six months before you're 25. So do you think it should be younger? Because I know a lot of other European countries it is younger, like from like, 16, they're getting their smear tests done.
Karen Hobbs
This is such a difficult and important question. I know you said quickfire. So look, okay. If I'd, if I'd had a cervical screening at, well if I'd had one because I never had one, because I had symptoms.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, that was your first one.
Karen Hobbs
Exactly. I had symptoms and then was diagnosed. If I had a cervical screening at 20,21, 22, 18, whatever. Would I have had cancer? Probably not. But screenings don't pick up on all -
Hannah Witton
Yeah, because it might have, might have, you never know, caught abnormal cells before it developed into cancer.
Karen Hobbs
It probably would have, it wouldn't have been 100%, it's about 75% accurate at the moment. The new HPV primary -
Hannah Witton
Wow, it's a Sunday and the sirens -
Karen Hobbs
Sunday and the sirens. The new HPV primary testing, because HPV is the virus that causes most cervical abnormalities. So HPV is being tested for first, rather than abnormal cells. And that is a more sensitive test. This is like the longest short answer ever. Basically, it probably would have picked it up, if I'd had it. Do I think the national age should be lowered? I'm not sure. Because it's really rare to have cancer at this young age.
Hannah Witton
From like a gynae cancer?
Karen Hobbs
Yeah. And cervical cancer, but gyane.
Hannah Witton
Okay. Yeah.
Karen Hobbs
So cervical cancer, in this case. It's 25 because it's the age that is, you know, research wise and survey wise, safe to start. And it's a way of including everyone cost effective wise with a cervix.
Hannah Witton
Cost effective. It always comes into it
Karen Hobbs
Because obviously you can pay privately, if you want to, to go for a cervical screening. Like we could go now, and we don't have to be due one.
Hannah Witton
I feel like I am. Oh, how often is it? Because I've had one.
Karen Hobbs
That's fine, you're 27.
Hannah Witton
And I'm 27. So it's every three years?
Karen Hobbs
Three years, yeah.
Hannah Witton
So I am due one soon, because I actually did end up having it when I was still 24. Because I got a letter six months before.
Karen Hobbs
Yeah. So yeah, it's every, so start at 25 or just before, every three years until you're 50. And then between 50 and 64, it goes to every five years. Of course, this varies if you are say you have your final screening at 63 because you're a bit early or whatever, and they're abnormal cells, or high risk HPV, you'll be monitored. It's not like you're off regardless.
Hannah Witton
And that's your last one.
Karen Hobbs
Good luck, hope it doesn't work out. You know, whatever. So obviously if every three years, say your first smear had, or cervical screening, had been abnormal, you would have been seen more regularly than the three years. So it's three years, then five years, but depending on the results of each time.
Hannah Witton
That makes a lot. Do you find the, this is again like not even a quickfire question because it's probably can go super into it. But like -
Karen Hobbs
I'll try.
Hannah Witton
But like talking about gyane cancers, like had you ever like heard anyone else talking about? Because you like now do you stand up comedy like about your cervix.
Karen Hobbs
I do! And everyone listening will be like, she's not funny,
Hannah Witton
But yeah, do you find the like, is there a taboo around this? Like in the, in the cancer world, like cancers that affect like the vulva, vagina, cervix, womb, like all of that. Is, like, are people talking about it? Like, how common are they? What's going on?
Karen Hobbs
So there, so there are about 3100ish cases of cervical cancer every year. There are over 9000 cases of womb cancer, over 7000 cases of ovarian, one and a bit 1000 cases of vulval, and about 250 cases of vaginal. So 58 women every day in the UK are diagnosed with a gynae cancer. That is nothing compared to like the big four.
Hannah Witton
What are the big four?
Karen Hobbs
Breast, lung, bowel, and prostate.
Hannah Witton
Ah.
Karen Hobbs
I believe. Breast, lung, bowel, and prostate.
Hannah Witton
I didn't even realise that was the big four. But those are the ones that you hear about.
Karen Hobbs
Yeah. And they affect I think 44,000, some of them. So it, the gynae cancers, in the grand scheme of cancers, aren't that common. But if you think they only affect women, or people with gynae anatomy, it feels a bit more common then. Because like half the population can't get them.
Hannah Witton
Yeah.
Karen Hobbs
Because even men can get breast cancer, and we don't talk about that enough.
Karen Hobbs
Because the breast tissue -
Karen Hobbs
Tissue exists, but these are organs -
Hannah Witton
Organs.
Karen Hobbs
- that half the population, whether they identify as female or not, only half the population have them. Yeah. And so there's definitely, and also because HPV, cervical cancer and some vaginal and vulval are caused by HPV, Human Papilloma Virus.
Hannah Witton
Yeah.
Karen Hobbs
And it's passed on through skin to skin sexual contact.
Karen Hobbs
Yeah. And that's, that's just it. It's passed on through sexual contact, but that doesn't need to be penetrative sex, it can be oral, sharing sex toys, all sorts of ways. There's a bit of a stigma, having a cancer that was caused through like, sorry mum, loving dick.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, can be -
Hannah Witton
Do you know that that's what caused yours? Or -
Karen Hobbs
Yeah, so it causes 99.8% of cervical cancers. So it's very, very rare, like almost impossible, to have a cervical cancer that wasn't caused by HPV. But people I don't think talk about it enough that you can get HPV from having sex once with a condom. You know, condoms don't protect against it, they only cover part of the penis.
Hannah Witton
Because, and it's skin to skin as well.
Karen Hobbs
Exactly. So it's like oral anything, two women or people you know, you don't need to have a penis involved, or a condom involved, or condom involved to be able to or not be able to transmit it. Yeah.
Hannah Witton
And I also I felt like now with the HPV vaccine as well, like, I was too old for it.
Karen Hobbs
I was too old too.
Hannah Witton
I've never had it, but someone did tell me recently that apparently I can just go to my doctor and request to get it. I'm like, is it too late?
Karen Hobbs
Yeah, it's interesting, isn't it. So it's given at -
Hannah Witton
Maybe I already have it like, you never know, probably do.
Karen Hobbs
I mean, I don't want to presume, are you sexually active.
Karen Hobbs
Yeah. So you probably have had it, and our immune systems are designed to get rid of it. So that's good. So you've probably, as a sexually active person, had it or have it, and there are over 150 different strands. So only 13 are high risk, and so and then a couple of those cause 70%, which are the ones that are vaccinated against. So it's not likely, in the grand scheme of everyone who, you know, has any type of sexual contact, that you're going to end up with one of the viruses that causes cancer.
Hannah Witton
Yeah.
Hannah Witton
Yeah.
Karen Hobbs
But there's definitely a bit of an assumption. The vaccine's great because it prevents against the types that cause most of the cervical cancers. Boys are vaccinated as well because we need to remember that not many but compared to cervical the 99.8%, but some penile, anal, head, and neck cancers, and you know, men have penises, anuses, heads, and necks as well.
Hannah Witton
They do.
Karen Hobbs
Basically it's kind of any orifice where sexual contact occurs can can get it, because it's skin thing. And so I think it's good. I think it will help the stigma a little bit that now everyone's included in the vaccination. You said you could go and get it. So you wouldn't be able to get it for free on the NHS.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, I'd have to pay.
Karen Hobbs
You could go and pay for it, but you can go and pay for most things if you want to.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, like I could also go pay like for the flu vaccine if you don't qualify.
Karen Hobbs
Yeah, exactly. So as you're sexually active, the chances are you've been exposed to the virus. So it might offer some protection if you had the virus, if you had the vaccine, but it's not kind of going to totally sort you out now, because you've already started sexual activities. That's why it's offered to younger kids because hopefully, of course there are some cases where people do have sexual experiences.
Hannah Witton
But try and get them in before they're sexually active.
Karen Hobbs
Before exposed to the virus. That's when you're kind of the most immune to something.
Hannah Witton
Yeah.
Karen Hobbs
So you could, and some people - like I had the vaccine after my surgery to kind of offer protection, in case I hadn't got any of the other viruses in my system yet. So, I mean, if you can afford it. Put it this way, people ask me this a lot. It's not gonna hurt you if you have it. There's no guarantee it's gonna do anything.
Hannah Witton
Yeah.
Karen Hobbs
So whatever. Like, what if you've got a spare day -
Hannah Witton
Just go get yourself vaccinated.
Karen Hobbs
Four months, for a year, like just go. You have to have three doses.
Hannah Witton
Oh, do you?
Karen Hobbs
Yeah. If you've got some time on the hands, Hannah.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, some time and money on my hands.
Karen Hobbs
Just do it.
Hannah Witton
Why not.
Karen Hobbs
But yeah, people have called me a slut, told me to keep my legs shut.
Hannah Witton
Wow, really?
Karen Hobbs
Under one of my YouTube videos, someone put slut cancer's no joke, because it is caused through sexual contact. But what people don't talk about is that most people who've had any type of sexual contact will get it. It's just a weaker immune system, at that point, and a bit of bad luck means that develops -
Hannah Witton
Yeah, wow.
Karen Hobbs
Yeah. It's crazy, isn't it? But there's a label that I'm a slut. And also then you have to kind of have the conversation of, so I had someone at my old job say to me, when I said I was going for surgery, like what type of cancer, which is fine. Said cervical. And then she said, how do you get that? Like, you don't ask people how they got a certain type of cancer.
Hannah Witton
Because also a lot of times it like, it just happens. Like cells just mutate, and -
Karen Hobbs
Yeah, with other yeah most cancers aren't based off a virus like HPV. It's really ridiculous. And, and then when I said, oh, it's mine was, you know, through a virus that's passed on through sexual contact. And you know, she said, but I thought you had a boyfriend. And then -
Hannah Witton
Yeah, I have a boyfriend, and we're not sexually contacting each other.
Karen Hobbs
Because we hate each other. But it's just weird how there's an assumption that, first of all, I was promiscuous, I guess.
Hannah Witton
Yeah. Or you have to be promiscuous in order to get HPV. Like, oh, but I thought you were in relationship so surely like you're safe.
Karen Hobbs
But then it's also presuming what type of relationship someone's in. Or, also so what if you have multiple partners, as long as your - the thing is, you can't be tested for it like you would an STI clinic for chlamydia, or something. So say you're practising safe sex, and then, you know, you've got several different relationships on the go or whatever. Or whether it was one person for the whole of your life. You still get it. It's really, there's a real stigma around kind of what you've been up to, if you've had an HPV related cancer. Yes, if I'd never done anything, I wouldn't have had my disease. But that's boring. You know, it's just life, people have sexual contact.
Hannah Witton
Yeah. And on that note, thanks so much for sharing.
Karen Hobbs
People fuck, is what I want to end on.
Hannah Witton
People fuck. Lets like, not judge. And go to your cervical screening.
Karen Hobbs
Yes, please do. Don't ignore the letter.
Hannah Witton
Please don't ignore the letter.
Karen Hobbs
But if people to talk about it, they can, like contact the Eve Appeal, the charity I work for, it's our job to talk.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, and I'll leave resources in the show notes of this episode.
Karen Hobbs
Thank you, darling.
Hannah Witton
For like, you know, like, if for whatever reason you're nervous about your cervical screening. There's lots and lots of help out there.
Karen Hobbs
We can always talk.
Hannah Witton
Yeah.
Karen Hobbs
It's good to talk, babe
Hannah Witton
Absolutely, thank you.
Karen Hobbs
Love you, bye!
Hannah Witton
Thank you so much for listening to Doing iI. If you enjoyed it, I would really appreciate it. If you left a rating and a review. You can find show notes at DoingItPodcast.co.uk and do go follow us on social media, and I'll catch you in the next episode. Bye.
Hannah Witton
This was a Global original podcast