Red Flags, Fuck Boys and Dating Better with LalalaLetMeExplain
Find the episode shownotes here!
Hannah Witton
Hi everyone. Welcome back to Doing It, the sex and relationships podcast where sex has never been so nerdy, with me, your host, Hannah Witton. In this week's episode, my guest is LaLaLaLetMeExplain. Lala is an anonymous sex, dating and relationships expert and a qualified social worker. She left her 15 year career in the public sector back in 2018 to bring her professional knowledge and everything she's learned about dating to social media, where she delves into the highs and lows of modern day dating to give raw and honest advice on topics that people are often too embarrassed or afraid to talk about. Lala has just released her first book called Block, Delete and Move On, in which she draws upon her own personal experience of sex and relationships and her career as a trauma expert to advise on how women can tackle the pitfalls of modern dating and help them successfully avoid unsatisfactory relationships with a man.
I couldn't wait to talk to Lala all about the wisdom she's learned while dating and writing this book. Lala is so good at getting really vulnerable about her experiences so I knew a lot of listeners would be able to relate and take great guidance from her musings. Lila was so fun to talk to and really gave such good advice. We talked all about what dating with self love really looks, like why it's actually more important to be looking for green flags rather than red flags when it comes to getting to know someone, and why it's so common for there to be a disconnect between the advice we give and following it ourselves - and why you maybe shouldn't always listen to your vagina. I also really enjoyed hearing Lala's perspectives on incorporating mindfulness in your approach to dating and how it can help you get over breakups and move on. I loved that when talking to Lala, it's so clear how genuine her advice is, and really does come from a deep place of self-reflection and growth.
And please note that we do talk about abusive relationships in this episode so please do look after yourselves when listening.
And as usual, you can find more info and links to everything that we talked about in this episode in the shownotes over at doingitpodcast.co.uk. And please let us know what you think over on our Twitter or Instagram @doingi podcast. If you like this episode, then please give us a rating and review over on iTunes and Spotify. It is really appreciated. And without further ado, here is my chat with LaLaLaLetMeExplain.
Hannah Witton
Welcome to Doing It. I'm very excited to be joined by you and just dive into all of these juicy topics and basically get loads of relationship and dating advice from you.
LalalaLetMeExplain
Oh, I'm totally honoured to be here. I think you're absolutely fabulous and a real force within this field, so totally gassed to be here with you talking about all these things, too.
Hannah Witton
Aw, likewise. So first off, just to kind of contextualise it all, like what is LalalaLetMeExplain? Why did you start that page? And also your new book, Block, Delete, Move On - how did that come about? And like who is it for?
LalalaLetMeExplain
Right. So I am a social worker by trade. I have - I actually started out as a sex and relationships educator over 20 years ago, working for the NHS, delivering safe sex and relationships education in like schools, colleges, youth settings, prisons, all sorts of places. And then I went on with that knowledge and experience to become a social worker. I worked in child protection for the vast majority of my career and a lot of that, I'd say that 80% of cases, even if they weren't directly around domestic abuse, you know, even if the case was about a child who'd been sexually abused or a child who was involved in gang violence - there was always domestic abuse somewhere like in the background. It had been a feature in their lives. So I developed a real strong professional knowledge on working around abuse and helping people to leave it and understanding the impact of it. But at the same time I was, you know, a young woman on the dating scene, making tonnes of mistakes myself, absolutely tonnes. Like running after ambivalent men. insistent men, sometimes abusive men. And it took me a really long time to be able to kind of connect the dots, and to put all the stuff that I knew professionally into, like, you know, relating it to what I was doing personally. So, you know, I was making all these mistakes, but then going into work and advising people to do stuff that really I should have been doing myself. So it took me a long time to kind of connect it all. And then when I did, I was a bit like, "Whoa, actually, I kind of understand where I've been going wrong. And I really want to let other women know."
LalalaLetMeExplain
And what my page is not just for women -I think that queer people, any people can access it and apply it to whatever gender they are and whoever they date - I do think that there are some specific issues that come with dating cis het men. And so yeah, so it was really kind of my mission to make sure that I got that information out to women, to help them to avoid making the same mistakes that I repeatedly made for a really long time. And then I guess the book has just been a kind of, you know, has been the outcome of that. I've put out a lot of different information about - you know, it's quite a big field, isn't it, like sex, dating, relationships, so I tried to cover lots of different bases. And a lot of people come to me and they're like, "Oh, you did this post about ghosting, or you did this post about, you know, red flags, or whatever, can you just show me where to find it?" And it's very difficult to like, go, you know, scrolling through your whole page.
Hannah Witton
Like, scroll.
LalalaLetMeExplain
Exactly. So I thought, well, actually, the best thing to do is put this all in one place, so that anyone who's dating can be like, "Okay, this is the book. And if I need to know about ghosting or the ick, why he hasn't called me back, I can just go to that part of the book. And, and there's my answers."
Hannah Witton
Yeah. And hopefully, it can be a really great resource for people.
LalalaLetMeExplain
I really hope so. Yeah.
Hannah Witton
Yeah. I think it's really interesting, your experience of like, giving this advice, and it being your career and what you're doing professionally. And then there being that disconnect between following that advice in your actual life. And I feel like that's something that a lot of us do, even when we're just like, giving advice to our friends. And I was wondering why you think that there is that disconnect sometimes between us being able to give advice to other people, but not being able to integrate it into our own life?
LalalaLetMeExplain
I think it's very complex, really. I think sometimes when you know, when you're in something, it's - it's, you know, you can see something from outside perspective, you can see your friend, you know, heading into a disastrous relationship, and it's all so obvious, because it's just, you can really see the black and white of it. But when there's feelings, and chemicals, and hormones, and all of those things, interplaying with it, you know, it's, it's very difficult, because when you are heading into something with a, you know, bad guy, for example, it's not just the bad stuff that you're experiencing, otherwise, you wouldn't head into it. You tell them to go away if they were awful and abusive, like from the outset, but they're not, they balance it with so much other stuff, you know. So when you're in it, you're not only contending with the, you know, having to pay attention to the red flags, but you're also contending with them being really lovely and making you feel really amazing. And, and making you feel - you know, you start attaching yourself to all the nice stuff. It makes it very easy to miss the other stuff. But I think it's also more kind of complex than that, in that it comes down a lot to self esteem, comes down to our own attachment styles, and our own insecurities. And sometimes even though we can see that other people are deserving of love and really good treatment, sometimes we don't feel that ourselves. We don't respect or love ourselves enough to know that actually, we deserve better. So I think it takes a whole lot of work to be able to sift through it all and and see yourself as deserving and valuing yourself and then being able to take the advice that you so greatly give to others, you know.
Hannah Witton
I think it's really important that self esteem piece because I think we often hold these two thoughts at the same time of like, "You need to work on yourself and your own shit and you need to learn to love yourself before anyone else can love you. But then also everyone, no matter what stage along that journey that they're at, is deserving of love." So how do we balance those things?
LalalaLetMeExplain
You know what it is? I don't think that it's that nobody else can love you until you love yourself. I don't - I don't believe that that is true because I think that we are all lovable no matter what stage we're at, as you say. I think it's more that if you don't love yourself, then you may not be able to distinguish between what is healthy love, and what is unhealthy. So if you're in a position where you, you know - and I don't think anyone's actually ever in a position of constant continuity of self love. I think it's always a rollercoaster, it's always up and down. But I think that if you value yourself and your self esteem is high, and you do know what you deserve, and you do have love for yourself, then you are more likely to be able to recognise when somebody isn't loving you right. You know? Whereas I think that if your self esteem is on the floor, and you despise yourself, and you're reaching out for love in in the wrong places, abuse can feel like love. Abuse can feel like what you deserve. So it's not "You have to love yourself" but it is "if you are in that really dark place of absolutely not loving yourself, then you're much more vulnerable to not being loved correctly, and then not being able to see that." You know.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, that's a really good point. So what are some of those like red flags that you've learned about over like all of your professional and personal experiences? And then also, I'd love to hear about green flags. And I know you also talk about pink flags as well. So like, what's going on there?
LalalaLetMeExplain
So I'm a bit flag obsessed. So the thing about red flags is that there'll be different red flags for different things. So there are obviously red flags for abuse. And then there are red flags for somebody being a misogynist, or there's red flags for somebody being already in a relationship. So it's not like there's just a blanket load of red flags is there's red flags for different things. So for example, if I was looking out for somebody who may potentially be an abuser, the red flags - I mean, the the first and most important one is looking out for love bombing. Love bombing is a tactic of nearly all abusive people. Not all. But most abusive relationships start off really well. And they start off really intensely, and they start off feeling like, "This is my soulmate, you know, within a week we're already thinking about what our children's names are going to be, you know, very intense, almost too much too soon, you know?" And, and then what categorises, that as love bombing is that once you are very attached to that, and you're also, you know, sharing the intensity and falling for them just as much as they're falling for you, their behaviour will shift, and it'll turn, and then suddenly, they won't reply to you for 48 hours, or suddenly, they'll get annoyed with you for something or other that you haven't really done. And then that puts you in a position where you are absolutely desperate to go back to how it was in the loving love bombing stage. And they do it - it's very tactical, because it gives them a lot of power. Because instead of thinking, "Well, hang on a minute, this person's turned, they're now being horrible. I need to head out of this." You're thinking, "No, this is my fault. Like, everything was fine."
Hannah Witton
Yeah. "What did I do?"
LalalaLetMeExplain
"They were amazing, like, I've just got to do better. I've got to be better, so that we can get back to how we were when things were amazing, you know." And then they've hooked you. And they will use that and then it will turn into this cycle of really lovely, everything's brilliant, and then boom, you're walking on eggshells, you're desperate to get back in their good books, you know, it's very manipulative behaviour. So I always say that looking out for love bombing is really important. Looking out for anything that would suggest any signs that they want to control you. So jealousy is a big one, you know, if they start having a go at you about posting too much cleavage on Instagram, or they start trying to tell you, you can't go to your friend's birthday party because she's a bit of a whore and you'll look like a whore by association. You know, and sometimes it's not even as explicit as that. Sometimes it's much more subtle. Trying to cause divides between you and your family or friends. I mean, there's lots of red flags to look out for. And I think my book kind of really goes through all the different types of red flags that you might need to look out for, for the different, you know, issues that you might face.
LalalaLetMeExplain
So pink flags are not quite red flags. So for example, you might be dating somebody, and - and so a red flag for the person being married would be them wearing a wedding ring, for example, in a Tinder picture. So that's a real clear red flag, right? He's wearing a wedding ring, like, get out of my face, you know. Whereas a pink flag for somebody being married on Tinder might be that they can never phone you in the evenings. They can only phone you during the working day. And the reason that it's a pink flag and not a red is because you don't quite know. So it's a bit of a flag. "Why can this guy never just spontaneously answer my calls in the evening?" Might because he's married, but it might also be because I don't know, whatever, he's obsessed with Fortnite, and that's all he does, you know, FIFA or whatever. But then if we have another pink flag, so he's not able to contact you in the evenings, he never allows you to come to his house. So again, if the person never allows you to come to their house, that might be a pink flag, but put the two pink flags together and you have a red.
Hannah Witton
Got it.
LalalaLetMeExplain
Do you see what I mean?
Hannah Witton
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
LalalaLetMeExplain
So it's the ones that aren't like, "Oh my god, this is definitely dodgy." It's the ones that are like, "This is possibly dodgy." But then when you collect enough of them, they become a red.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, it's like seeing that full picture.
LalalaLetMeExplain
Yeah, there's enough tiny little pink ones indicate to you that actually, this is dodgy. This is fishy. Something's not right.
Hannah Witton
Something's going on. Yeah. On a more positive note that what are some of your green flags?
LalalaLetMeExplain
Well, you see - see, the green flags are I think we don't often go into dating enough like looking for them. And I think it's not a good idea to go into dating looking for the red flags. And I say this in my book, which is that, I think you'll ruin your experience of dating if you go out there like, "Right, what's wrong with this guy." But if you if you go out there looking for what's right, the things that are wrong will appear. Red flags do appear. They come when you need to see them. And so as long as you are aware of them, and you take note of them when they come, that that's the healthiest way to date. And so looking out for the green flags. Green flags are things like them - it's quite basic, really. And it's sad that we have to get to this really basic level like them seeing women as humans, you know? Like, them being a feminist, which I think is a really important thing. If you're a woman and you're dating a man who believes in patriarchal misogynistic attitudes, then you're just never going to have a good relationship with this person.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, that's going to be difficult.
LalalaLetMeExplain
Yeah. So a green flag to me is that you're a feminist ally. A green flag is somebody who's genuinely interested in you, like actually interested. Wants to know how your day was, wants to know what your work involves, wants to know what your hopes and dreams are, not just how many people you've slept with, or, you know, what you're doing on Saturday night, you know. Somebody who genuinely respects you and sees you far beyond your vagina. Somebody who is open and honest. And somebody who's done the work, you know, like, I think a real green flag is somebody - and again, it does - not everybody who's been in therapy is perfect. But a really great green flag is a man who's done the work, and he's been to therapy and who knows himself. But green flags are going to be different for different people as well, you know, like, so a green flag for someone might be that they share the same religion and that they have exactly the same moral values on certain things, you know. So your green flag might be different to my green flag. But it is really just about looking for somebody who is, you know, meets all the kind of other stuff, you know, your important needs.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, one thing that I always think about with green flags is like, how do you feel after spending time with them? Like, do you feel good about yourself? And like, actually checking in with how you're feeling?
LalalaLetMeExplain
Yeah, and that is a really important thing. You know, somebody who makes you feel great about yourself, somebody who - you know, I get a lot of messages from women who are like, "Seeing this guy, everything's really lovely, but he never tells me I'm beautiful. He never tells me that I'm hot, or that I'm sexy, or that, you know, he just doesn't ever give any compliments." And so, while they know that things are going well, because the guy keeps wanting to meet up and keeps arranging new dates, they've got this kind of uncertainty and insecurity, because he's not explicitly saying, "This is how I feel." And so definitely a green flag is somebody who's open and that you know exactly where you stand with them. Even if where you stand is, "Actually what I want is, I want a casual relationship. I'm definitely not going to be in the market for any type of relationship." You know, that's a really good green flag for open and honest communication. And whether that's what you want from that person, you know -
Hannah Witton
That's up to you to decide.
LalalaLetMeExplain
It's up to you. But yeah, somebody who lets you know exactly where you stand is really a good green flag.
Hannah Witton
So shifting gears slightly, I absolutely love the chapter name "Is he worth disturbing your pH for?"
LalalaLetMeExplain
Yeah.
Hannah Witton
That is just brilliant. And so I wanted to talk about vaginas and if they have some kind of intuition, and should people with vulvas like, be listening to our vaginas and our bodies more and like noticing the things that like they're doing, like any tingling or itching or pain or like bacterial infections or UTIs. Like what - like, what do our vaginas know that we don't? What is going on there?
LalalaLetMeExplain
Well, I would say don't ever listen to your vagina if she's anything like mine. You know, mine would just have me like, you know, sleeping with every Tom, Dick and Harry that, like smelt nice when he was walking past me, you know what I mean? So, I mean, personally no, because actually, sometimes you can have that real fanny tingling throbbing like, "Oh my God, just enter me now" with the most dastardly unbelievable fuck boys, you know? So.
Hannah Witton
Yeah.
LalalaLetMeExplain
So I used to pay a lot of attention to my vagina, and kind of ignored what my head was saying. So actually, yeah, me, me personally, I don't think that's a good idea. What I would say about listening to our vaginas - and this is really not based on any actual gynaecological science so please don't come at me, doctors.
Hannah Witton
Bear that in mind!
LalalaLetMeExplain
Yeah, this is not official, but from my own non-scientific studies with myself and lots of women that I know, if you're getting regular bacterial vaginosis from somebody that you're sleeping with your vagina does not like him, and - and he is definitely - I don't know anyone that has had regular bacterial vaginosis from one particular partner. And it's not a sexually transmitted infection, I have to say. Bacterial vaginosis is something that our vaginas can develop by themselves in reaction to strong perfumes or - and sometimes semen, but not, it's not because the semen is infected, it's because your vagina doesn't like him. And I'm, I'm fairly certain that everybody who I've ever slept with who's given me BV frequently has been sleeping with a lot of other people. And that is what my non scientific research has shown me. So listen to your vagina, if you get BV and thrush all the time with the same person. Although I'm probably going to have loads of people now like, "I've been getting BV with my husband for 20 years, and he's not cheating on me."
Hannah Witton
Oh no!
LalalaLetMeExplain
And I'll just reply like, "I think he's cheating on you!" No, not really, not really.
Hannah Witton
Absolutely stirring the pot.
LalalaLetMeExplain
Yeah, if you get it with your husband all the time, it's fine. That's just an anomaly. But to everyone else. Yeah. Watch it. It's a message.
Hannah Witton
Interesting. Yeah. It's just that, I don't know, our vaginas have a very like delicate pH level that it likes and kind of that being disturbed - it throws a hissy fit. So, yeah.
LalalaLetMeExplain
Exactly. And for me, you know, and the reason I called the chapter "Is He Worth Disturbing Your pH For?" is because you know, we can be really sensitive down there. We can develop UTIs and thrush and BV. And sometimes there is no sinister, you know - it just happens that we've had sex with a new person or a current person and the pH has been disturbed.
Hannah Witton
Is new!
LalalaLetMeExplain
Yeah. But for me, it's very much like "Yeah, that's all fine and that's a great risk that's worth taking, if the sex I'm having has resulted in me having multiple orgasms, and I've had a really great time." And quite often for a lot of women, the sex that we're getting is like a jackhammering. No clitoral stimulation. Absolutely no foreplay. Five minutes of pounding like a porno. And we're left with no orgasm and bacterial vaginosis. Like was that even worth having to now go and take metronidazole, awful horrible antibacterial tablets. What did you get out of it? You know?
Hannah Witton
Yeah, just hearing "jackhammering" makes me wince and shudder. Blugh.
LalalaLetMeExplain
God. I mean, porn has so much to answer for, you know, Which woman ever has genuinely enjoyed a jackhammering?
Hannah Witton
There's got to be someone. There's got to be someone out there.
LalalaLetMeExplain
Yeah, well, again, you know, this as well as I do, don't you, that we'll put this out and someone will go "I love jackhammering" and it's like - sorry, jackhammering community for offending you. But, you know, generally, you know, it's not the way to get a woman off. And sadly, it's a common experience among especially young women whose partners have been educated purely by porn, you know?
Hannah Witton
Yeah. I wanted to ask you about your experience with dating and if becoming a mother changed the way that you dated?
LalalaLetMeExplain
Well, for me it was - so I was in a long term relationship with my son's dad from like, 2006. So before and prior to him, I'd been in a long term relationship as well, although I had done some dating kind of in between those relationships and prior to those relationships, but the landscape was incredibly different then so I don't know when dating apps came to prominence, but I think it was certainly somewhere in between me - you know, while I was in a long term relationship, because dating was very different before. You would meet people in bars or clubs or at uni, or, you know, friends of friends or at work or wherever, and that was really all you had. And it felt much easier to get into long term relationships back then. It felt like men wanted that too, like, it was just easy. You know, I was almost batting off relationships at that time. But I think also that's something to do with age. I think when you're in your 20s, you do inevitably have kind of more options. So then I was in a long term relationship, and then I ended that relationship while I was pregnant, or that relationship ended while I was pregnant. And then I came out into the dating scene, as a single mum, into this totally new - I mean, it was 2013. So my son was born in 2011. I didn't date until he was like off the boob. And because I don't - I think there's a bit - I don't know, there's something about breastfeeding and dating like random men - just doesn't sit well with me. But I'm not judging it and not judging anyone who does it at all. But it just wasn't right for me.
Hannah Witton
We've all got our own personal boundaries.
LalalaLetMeExplain
Exactly that. And yes, it was about 2013. And it was just like a massive shock to the system. Everything took place on dating apps, and although dating apps kind of were in their infancy, so even Tinder and Plenty of Fish and stuff felt different then, it felt like you know, there was more opportunity for actual dating than there is now. But it was very difficult because not only was I a single parent, I was also really naïve to, to how it all worked. So I was really naïve, like, I ended up getting catfished. I actually sent a picture of my tits to a catfish.
Hannah Witton
They're just out there somewhere.
LalalaLetMeExplain
Well, luckily, I was smart enough to not have my face in it. But, but you know, that you know, and then when I found out he was a catfish, I was so devastated and so embarrassed and so humiliated. You know, there was just so many mistakes that I was making. And it took me a really long time to understand that actually. Tinder and these things have totally changed the nature of dating and now things have become much more about who can I fuck? Like, who can I just find to fuck tonight? Not for me, not from my perspective, but from a lot of the men. It felt like relationships were kind of not off the table. But certainly there was this kind of feeling of like, people were on there to see how much pussy they could get, you know? And, and yeah, so it was quite disheartening for me to have that whole barrier of being a single mum, but then also the barrier of the fact that things were just different. Yeah.
Hannah Witton
Yeah. And were you looking for a relationship?
LalalaLetMeExplain
Yeah. Yeah. And that was part of the problem is that I was desperately looking for a relationship. You know, in the early days - because my son's dad had cheated on me while I was pregnant. And, and, and, you know, actually, it's turned out to be a good thing, because they are a much better match than me and him could ever be, and they're still together now and she's a wonderful stepmom to my son, so actually, it's all worked out perfectly. But at the time, when I was still in deep trauma of having been cheated on and feeling very vulnerable, in my head the solution to this was get a man to love me, you know, and then everything will be okay, and then I'll be validated and I won't be, you know, alone. And so I was really dating out of desperation, rather than it being something fun that I could introduce into my life. And that made a massive difference when I got to the point of like, "No, no, no, no, no, I'm so not desperate for this." It really turned everything on its head in terms of how I was dating.
Hannah Witton
How so like, what did you do differently?
LalalaLetMeExplain
Well, I came off all the apps for starters. And I got really into the law of attraction actually. I started listening to a lot -
Hannah Witton
One of my friends is super into that.
LalalaLetMeExplain
Oh really? It really helped me actually because it made me feel - a lot of it is quite airy fairy. And a lot of the law of attraction stuff is really - you have to be starting from quite a privileged base, you know, to - for it to really work for you. Like you can't say to someone like in Syria like "manifest your way out of this situation" you know what I mean, it's like ridiculous. But, but if you're coming from a fairly privileged position, you know, like, your life is okay, you've got a home, you've got love and all of that, then it's just a good way of getting your mind right. And, and it made me feel very much like, you know, like, "The universe is taking care of all this, like, you don't need to worry, you don't need to stress, and love will come when it's supposed to." So that was really important for me to kind of go like, "Okay, this is all taken care of, and I don't need to stress." And starting, you know, my page was as a result of me having these kind of penny drop moments of like, "Actually men are a bit shit. Misogyny really impacts on on dating, and I have spent so long like compromising myself to impress and please men who actually turned out at the end of it all they wanted was my vagina anyway." That, you know, I really needed to kind of stop seeing men and starting to see them for what they were. And this is obviously not all men, of course. But I think any woman on Tinder or whatever will tell you that there is an abundance of men who just make you feel like shit and who make dating feel like it's really hard.
Hannah Witton
Yeah. It's too many men.
LalalaLetMeExplain
It's too many men. Way too many men. So, so yeah, so I guess it was like just realising that I didn't need to chase love. And that actually, I'm really all right on my own. And I'm having a much better time now than I ever did in the relationships that I was in, you know. So, yeah, and then starting the page gave me that extra boost as well, and being connected to so many brilliant women and hearing the stories of so many brilliant women really helped me to just get much more like, "Yeah. My head is totally around, you know, like, where it should be with this dating thing. And I'm just not desperate for it anymore."
Hannah Witton
Yeah, I love that. So we had a lot of people submitting their questions through Instagram. And so I want to try and get as many of them as possible so we can get your insight onto all of these different things.
LalalaLetMeExplain
Go for it.
Hannah Witton
Somebody asked: I've blocked and deleted. How can I start moving on?
LalalaLetMeExplain
I mean, buy my book! But you know, moving on doesn't necessarily mean moving on to the next person. Moving on can just be kind of seeing that as, you know, there's a lid on this situation now and I am ready to allow those thoughts to be like, you know, locked away now, of that person. So moving on isn't necessarily, "I'm moving on to somebody else". It's, it's, "I am moving on from that phase. I'm moving on from being gutted that this person ghosted, me. I'm moving on from feeling devastated that they didn't, you know, call me after we had sex or whatever. I'm choosing to move on from that period, and from those feelings that that person gave me."
And I'd say that the real key to moving on is understanding how to practice mindfulness, like properly, and really getting comfortable with it. There's loads of guides on YouTube, and it's not easy. And mindfulness is not just something you can learn in a day, it takes work. But it is about being able to capture when those thoughts of anxiety or those thoughts about that person or regrets about that person are entering your head, and becoming like horrible, negative predominant thoughts, it's being able to go, "Okay, I've got these feelings and these thoughts, but I know how to move past them or accept them or acknowledge them and, and not allow them to dominate my life." So that's one aspect of moving on. But there's also the aspect of, you know, especially if you're moving on after a really hard relationship, or really hard heartbreak, I think that part of moving on is about getting back to you again, and really knowing -
Hannah Witton
Living your life!
LalalaLetMeExplain
That's it, and really knowing who you are, and going out with your mates again. And you know, getting into things that you weren't - you know, there's like the boyfriend that you lived with absolutely hated Sex in the City so you were never able to watch it: start watching that boxset again, you know. Ad if you're ready to think about dating again, then then do it. And do it with all the knowledge that you learned from that last relationship. You know, use those red flags or those issues that you encountered there to make your next dating experience even more wholesome and healthy.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, for sure. Somebody asked: what's your advice to someone dating in their late 30s/early 40s?
LalalaLetMeExplain
Well, I mean, I think it's, you know, I don't think it's necessarily any different. And I'd have to know whether you have children or not, and whether you want children or not, because I think that that is a massive factor. And I think the wonderful thing is that there's so many more women now coming to the point where they are choosing to be child free. I think there's been such an expectation on women over the years that we have to have children to have, like, completed life. And I just think it's so brilliant that so many people are making that choice now. So but I do think it certainly is a massive factor in dating at that age. I've got lots of friends who are like late 30s, early 40s, and those who don't have children but want them are certainly, I think, dating in ways that are - some of them are dating in ways that are less healthy, because they're so motivated by the thought of running out of time that a lot of them are almost like, "Okay, well, I want the sperm by any means necessary." And that is leading them to kind of maybe rush things with people or like go into things with people who aren't necessarily right for them, but who also, you know, desperately want kids right now.
Hannah Witton
Wow.
LalalaLetMeExplain
So I think that it's really important to really think about that stuff. You know, like, there's so much to say on not rushing into having kids, and it's so nuanced and so incredibly complex, but I think it's really important not to date out of, like, desperation. I think it's really important to, to, yeah, like, just really get your head around, like, "Do I want kids by any means necessary? And if I do, then maybe I could get, you know, IVF or a sperm donor." Like a lot of that stuff is actually better than ending up attached to someone awful for the next 18 years of your life.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, it makes me think as well that maybe it opens up the opportunity to have conversations about different structures of relationships, like, instead of trying to pursue a romantic relationship in order to get that sperm, like, what other relationships do you have in your life? Is there somebody who's already in your life who you would co-parent with? And maybe that's the relationship.
LalalaLetMeExplain
Absolutely. Does your gay best friend want to be a father?
Hannah Witton
Who knows?
LalalaLetMeExplain
Or, you know, absolutely. But I think the other thing, I guess, for women who are in late 30s, and 40s, is to really think about body confidence. And I think that there was something - I don't know, you're about 30, aren't you? So I don't know if this has, like, become kind of stark to you yet but when you're in your 20s, you are, you know, you have your pick of men. And it's quite gross, really, because when you're 20, you can date 50 year olds and 60 year olds, you know, every man will have you, you know. And then you get to a certain age, and you see all this narrative online and on dating apps that, you know, you'll see men with dating apps, like "Nobody over 35." And the guy's like, 50. You know what I mean? It's like, "No women over 35." You know. So there is a quite a lot of judgement around age for women. There is like, a lot of narrative on the internet, that women, you know, lose it. And that, you know, obviously, a lot of that is tied into fertility and things like that. And I really think it's incredibly important to not buy into any of those narratives, not allow that to get into your head, and not allow any - you know, because there's a lot that comes with like the wrinkles that start appearing on your face, and your boobs get a bit saggier and your body is not what it was before you had kids or, you know, when you were 20, and all of those things. And I think it's so important to treat yourself how you would treat a friend, and to love your body and to tell your body the things that you would tell your beautiful friend if they were standing there naked in front of you,.Uou know, you wouldn't be saying, "You are a bit old now. You are a bit past it now. You're not really wanted on the scene anymore because you're, you know, you're 10 years away from menopause." You know, you wouldn't be telling anybody those things. So make sure that you're not telling yourself those things. Go out there with confidence. You are very valuable, very gorgeous, very attractive, well into your, you know, 60s and 70s. So don't allow existing narratives to make you feel that you're less than good enough to be on the dating scene.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, and even if you are 20, I would just avoid matching with anyone who says no over 35s on their profile because I don't think they're going to be a very nice person.
LalalaLetMeExplain
Well, they're not and they're probably going to have an affair with a 22 year old when you reach 35, you know what I mean?
Hannah Witton
Are you into astrology?
LalalaLetMeExplain
Well, it depends what day you asked me, you know. If I see my horoscope and my horoscope says, "Yeah, you're gonna, you know, have a really great day." I'm like, "Yeah, I'm gonna have a really great day." But I'm not I'm not massively into it in the sense that if I met a Taurean, man, I wouldn't be like, "No, go away. I really don't like you." You know?
Hannah Witton
Yeah. This next question just says: it's probably just nostalgia and being a Pisces. But why do I miss an ex when I'm in a happy relationship?
LalalaLetMeExplain
It's got nothing to do with being a Pisces.
Hannah Witton
I don't think so.
LalalaLetMeExplain
I mean, I think the thing is, is do you miss the ex? Or do you miss something about how they made you feel? You know, was it something - I think rather than that being a particular person that we're missing, it's something about what that person gave to us and what we had from that person. And maybe that might give you an indication that maybe some of your needs in that relationship aren't being met. And that doesn't necessarily mean you need to end it and go back to that old person. It's maybe just thinking about, "What is it that I miss about that person? And can I then try to do some things to bring those, you know, whatever it is that I'm missing into the current relationship?" I think the thing is, we get attached to people, don't we? And I - I don't necessarily think that it means that your current relationship - unless it is negative or bad, or you're worried about being in it - I don't necessarily think it means anything for your current relationship to think fondly of people that you've been with in the past. I think that's just kind of normal. But yeah, I don't - I'm not sure if it's anything to do with the Pisces, I think we all feel like this. But I definitely think you should look at what it is that you're missing. Or what it is that that person gave you that maybe you're not getting now.
Hannah Witton
Yeah. And sometimes I think it's quite nice to just fondly remember, like, past lovers, past experiences, and just be like, "Wasn't that a fun time?" If you've got - if you've got those memories, like, reminisce.
LalalaLetMeExplain
Absolutely, yeah. Just because it's not current now, it doesn't mean that it wasn't wonderful at the time and that nostalgic memories - they're not unhealthy at all. Unless they are, if you know, I mean. Unless they become that. Unless you become obsessed by the ex, and it's really impacting on your new relationship. You know?
Hannah Witton
Yeah, that's true. How to navigate your first relationship when you're not really experienced, and they are?
LalalaLetMeExplain
Ooh. Experience of what though? Experience in relationships?
Hannah Witton
In relationships? Yeah, I guess.
LalalaLetMeExplain
You see the thing is, every relationship is going to be different because you're two humans that are connecting with each other. There's no like formula or format to relationships. It's really about the experience that you two have together. So rather than - I think, actually, you need to let go of the fact that they've got all this experience, because that will just - it sounds like it feels almost intimidating to this person. And it's sort of daunting, like, "They're going to be better at this relationship thing." And, and honestly, you've had relationships, you know, all of us have. I've got a relationship with the postman, who I see every single day, you know. I've got relationships with my friends, I've got family relationships. So we all have experience of interpersonal relationships. And really, the foundations of a romantic relationship are kind of no different. You know, they take the same skills, they take communication, and trust and honesty, and sometimes compromise, and sometimes negotiation, and, you know, sometimes, you know, considering somebody else's needs - never above your own, but you know. So I think if you've got the skills to maintain a friendship, and the skills to maintain relationships with colleagues and family, then you've got the skills to maintain and navigate a romantic relationship. It's just about really, you know, listening to the person, understanding them, enjoying them, liking them. And, yeah, it'll just, it'l; just happen. Just go with it, you know?
Hannah Witton
Yeah. I really love that framing. And I guess like, do you think it would be a pink flag or a red flag, if they're, like, in quotes, "more experienced person" kind of like, used that against the less experienced person of like, "I know better? Like, this is how relationships go."
LalalaLetMeExplain
Yeah, that would be a red flag, as far as I'm concerned. Yeah. Because that's, then you're entering into kind of a bit of dominance and control.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, there's a power dynamic that's non-consensual there.
LalalaLetMeExplain
Yeah. And they may be more experienced, but they're not in the relationship now. So it's not like they're some kind of expert, you know what I mean? They've, they've obviously, they've obviously had, you know - and none of us are experts. Even married people who have been married for 50 years. But, you know, that person has obviously had different relationships that haven't worked out. So it's you know, so it's not like they're like, "Well, I know exactly what I'm doing here and I can make any relationship work?" No, they're just as flawed as the rest of us are. And each experience is going to be new. So it would be definitely worrying to me if someone was like, "Look, I've got this, I'm the relationship master. Just do as I say." You know?
Hannah Witton
Mm hmm. Yeah. And this is a question that I feel like I see comes up all the time, and like dating advice, and also, just like when chatting with friends as well, which is: when is the right point to have the exclusive chat, and the being a couple chat?
LalalaLetMeExplain
Oh god. Well. You know, I think as women we've been really - we've really been taught that it's all about being picked, you know, and that the ball is in the man's court. And that almost, we have to kind of stay silent, because we're too scared to say "What are we?" in case doing that, like, scares them off. And I think that's really shit. And it's done us a real disservice over the years to be feeling like they're the pickers. So I very much feel like: you say it when that's what you feel.
Hannah Witton
Yeah.
LalalaLetMeExplain
And you have to check yourself, because I think some of us can get like really infatuated and obsessed, quite quickly. You know, you can talking somebody on Tinder. And within the first three messages, because they take a lot of your boxes, you're like, "Oh, my God, like this is the guy that I want to marry." And then like, two dates in, you can't stop thinking about them. You're absolutely infatuated. And you would at that very point be thinking "Well, should we just get together?" You know. So obviously, check yourself and make sure that you actually want to be in a relationship or be exclusive with this person for the right reasons. Because you actually really like each other, and they respect you, and you get on really well. Don't just be doing it because, you know, you want a relationship for a relationship's sake. But once you get into that headspace of like, "Actually I really like this person. I really like spending time with them. I wouldn't feel comfortable with them sleeping with anybody else." That's the time to say it. And the thing is, if that does put them off, they were never yours to have in the first place. That's truly what I believe. Like, you know, if we all look at ourselves, and think, you know, any man in our lives who's ever said, "I'd love to have a relationship with you." If them saying that makes you go "Oh, no. Fuck that." Then then what was the found - it was never there. So I think that obviously don't do it too soon. But don't hold back.
Hannah Witton
Yeah. And I think we, we often hold back to kind of like protect ourselves by asking the other person, how they're feeling first without actually offering them how you're feeling. And so I, in the past, prefer it -like if, you know, if, when it's on the tip of your tongue, you just like, "I just want to say this thing." Just being like, "Hey, I'm not seeing anybody else. I'm not sleeping with anybody else. Like, where are you at?". And like offering that information first, so that they have that as context for whatever their reaction is going to be instead of being like, "What are we? What are you doing?" Which is feels a lot vaguer.
LalalaLetMeExplain
Absolutely. So spot on. And then you've got to watch for the replies. Because if you're like "Where are you at?" You know, exactly how you worded it is really perfect. And they're like, "You know what, I just really want to go with the flow and like, see, like, where the future takes us?" No, no, no, no, no.
Hannah Witton
Especially if you've just given them something concrete. And they answer a bit more vague. You're like,
LalalaLetMeExplain
Yeah, exactly. Go flow to your mother, like, I'm not here for this, like, ambivalent, like - and that's part of the problem is that they can then secure you into behaving like their girlfriends, or like, you know, you'll be into them and you'll want a relationship and they'll be like, "I just want to go with the flow or whatever." And then you're like, "Okay, yeah, cool, let's flow." But the flow looks like you doing all girlfriend things and being completely exclusive to actually a single man, you know? So, so be really pay attention to their responses when you do suggest this stuff.
Hannah Witton
Yeah. And also, I've found it quite freeing to acknowledge that I have no control over how other people will respond.
LalalaLetMeExplain
Absolutely. Absolutely. And it's about setting your boundaries, isn't it? What do you want from this conversation? Like, if you say, "I want exclusivity" and they don't, then where is that going to go? Like, think about that before you have that conversation. And where your boundaries are. And don't let down your boundaries for anyone else. If you know, "I don't want to be sleeping with you anymore., if you're shagging other people." That's it. "That's my boundary. We're gonna have to end it here. If you're not agreeing to exclusivity." You're well within your rights to do that. And you should.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, well, Lala, thank you so much for answering all these questions and all of your wisdom and your book! Where can people find more of you and all of your thoughts and advice online?
LalalaLetMeExplain
Uh, well, I'm just at Instagram @lalalaletmeexplain. And there is a link in my bio, you can pre order the book. It doesn't actually cost anything to preorder. I think from -
Hannah Witton
I think this episode is coming out after the book is out!
LalalaLetMeExplain
Oh wow, so you don't even need to preorder it. You can just order it and it'll just arrive straightaway.
Hannah Witton
You can buy it!
LalalaLetMeExplain
So yeah, but I do an Instagram Live every Monday. So people join in there and help give lots of advice to people.
Hannah Witton
Oh, I love that!
LalalaLetMeExplain
And I've got a weekly column in okay magazine. I'm their resident agony aunt, so, yeah.
Hannah Witton
Amazing. And do you want to give your book one last plug with the name?
LalalaLetMeExplain
Yes. Oh, thank you. It's Block, Delete, Move On: It's Not You, It's Them. And it's out on the 10th of February. And I hope that people enjoy it. Even if you're not single you can read it and you can help your single friends.
Hannah Witton
Ooh, good idea!
LalalaLetMeExplain
You can get an idea. - you can get an idea of what the dating landscape is. And it might make you stick more closely to your partner. Because you'll be like, "No, I'm not I can't do this." You know.
Hannah Witton
Or maybe don't stick to your current partner just out of fear.
LalalaLetMeExplain
Well. Yes, that's, that's very true.
Hannah Witton
Well, thank you so much, it's been an absolute joy chatting with you. And thank you all so much for listening. Bye!
LalalaLetMeExplain
Thank you!