Queering Your Sex Life and Reclaiming "Transsexual" with Quinn Rhodes | Transcript
Find the episode shownotes here!
CW: mental illness, depression and suicidal thoughts
Hannah Witton
Hi everyone, welcome back to Doing It, the sex and relationships podcast where sex has never been so nerdy with me, your host, Hannah Witton. Recently I caught up with Quinn Rhodes, a queer, disabled trans sex writer who writes for Refinery29, Huffington Post, and his own blog On Queer Street. Quinn is known for his personal and kinky musings on queering sex, vaginismus, mental health, shame, strap-ons, and just all things filth. I got to know Quinn from within the sex positive world and from my own Patreon community. I have had so many interesting conversations with Quinn about sex and gender and he has also been working with me on some of my recent YouTube videos and so I wanted to have the chance to dive a little deeper with Quinn on the podcast. Our chat did not disappoint.
We talked about why Quinn is reclaiming the words transsexual and faggot, why he feels the term "pegging" has homophobic undertones, and how companies need to stop making masturbation all about capitalism. Quinn shared how to queer up your sex life, what gender affirming sex truly looks like, and shared a lot of personal insights into what it's like being a sex writer with mental health illness. Quinn shares advice on how to throw the cisheteronormative sexual script out of the window and figure out what really works for you and why more of us should bring the yes, no, and maybe lists into our sex lives. I absolutely loved my chat with Quinn, we covered so many important topics from the most vulnerable to the most slutty, and brownie points for anyone who can count the amount of times we say the phrase "fucked up the ass" in this episode.
Please know also that we do discuss mental illness, depression and suicidal thoughts. So please do take care of yourselves if you need to when listening to this episode.
As usual, you can find more information and links to everything we talked about in this episode in the show notes over at doingitpodcast.co.uk. And please let us know what you think over on our Twitter or Instagram, which is @doingitpodcast. And if you like this episode, please give us a rating and review over on iTunes and Spotify. It really helps us out and is really appreciated. And without further ado, here is my chat with the brilliant Quinn Rhodes.
Quinn, welcome to Doing It. I'm so happy to have you here.
Quinn Rhodes
I am very excited to be here. I listen to Doing It like literally every week. And so it's very strange to be on the podcast, which I've constantly - one of my favourites.
Hannah Witton
Oh, thank you so much. Are you gonna like listen to your own episode? Are you just like "no, can't handle listening to my own voice" kind of person.
Quinn Rhodes
I don't know. I have quite a lot of dysphoria about listening back to my voice because it's so much higher than I feel like it is in my head. But also sometimes I feel like I might say clever things. And if I listen back to them, I'll be able to appreciate the clever things I said, even though in the moment I'm going to be feeling like a total idiot the whole time.
Hannah Witton
I'm sure you're gonna say tonnes and tonnes of clever stuff. Actually, I wanted to start out talking about your bio. So you call yourself "an inconvenient transsexual approaching faggotry". And I'm curious as to what this means to you. And also, do you think - I'm assuming you do but why do you think it's important to like reclaim slurs? And also like, I felt super uncomfortable saying those words. So.
Quinn Rhodes
I like to making cis het people very uncomfortable. That is a huge part of my brand. Which is like mostly a joke but also not entirely a joke. Faggot is a word that I have - hold very close to my heart, which it obviously is a slur and a reclaimed slur, but it's one which is incredibly gender affirming for me to reclaim as a queer man. It's something I use - I've used in sexual play, but also is something which sort of dictates a lot how I try and approach sex and other things in my life. So approaching faggotry and specifically the phrase which Dr. Liz Powell said to me when I was interviewing them for a piece I was writing, even. And it really stuck with me because it's a way of like approaching everything through a queer lens, which I think is really important. And everything I try and do - like I would say that my relationships are very queer, most of my life is very queer, not only my sexuality, and the word faggot sums up so much of that for me as well as being like incredibly transgressive and gender affirming. And I like the fact that it makes people uncomfortable and makes people think. And to be clear, I don't think that cis het people should go around calling people faggots and transsexuals.
Hannah Witton
Don't do that, please.
Quinn Rhodes
Absolutely not what we're talking about. Yeah. You should be using - particularly with transsexual - you should be using the word transgender, unless specifically asked otherwise, which, you know, I do in my bio. I was actually listening to an episode of Gender Reveal, the brilliant Trans4Trans podcast that gave me the confidence to start using transsexual. Specifically episode with Kai Cheng Thom, who I want to shout out here. So transsexual has fallen out of use because it was used originally for people who had medically transitioned.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, that was my understanding of it.
Quinn Rhodes
Yeah. So we sort of - but our understanding of gender has evolved. So we know that people don't have to medically transition to be the gender they are, whether you take hormones or have surgery or feel dysphoria, you're still trans. And there are also critiques of it, saying it's more about sex and sexuality rather than gender and it takes the focus on the wrong thing. Sort of adding to the whole language around you know, "transgender people are perverts" type thing. And like a lot of the trans people I know are massive perverts, but that has to do with who they are not because they're trans.
Hannah Witton
Yeah.
Quinn Rhodes
But people have reclaimed it, because it emphasises the - it does emphasise the importance of medical rights. Like trans people are being actively denied our rights to gender affirming health care, like life saving gender affirming health care, and transsexual does put the emphasis that we do - we should be getting that. And also, we are - like transsexual people - transness is not a whole sexuality, but we are allowed to be sexual and own our own sexuality. Personally, I haven't started testosterone or had any surgery, though I definitely want to. Like I don't fit the original definition of "transsexual" at all in that respect. But for me part of using it is trying to push back on the idea that I need to medically transition to claim that my sex is male. You have people are often like - even well, meaning people are often like, "You can define your gender however you want, but you can't change your sex." And honestly, no.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, people love to bring it back to biology, don't they.
Quinn Rhodes
Yes. And like biology is far more complicated than anything you were taught in high school. So like, if you're going back to high school biology just to prove why I'm wrong, then like, I don't need to explain to you how, how wrong you are and how many scientists who have progressed further with their biology would disagree with you. But also like, my sex is male, because I'm a man, it's as simple as that. Like, I don't like - nothing about me as female, because I'm not a woman. Yeah,
Hannah Witton
Yeah. There's so much there that even took me like a while to grapple with. And I still am. But at least kind of like, my botched understanding of that is that even like, the fact that we have these terms, male/female, that we like, assign to body parts is like part of the problem. And actually, like, I just really want language to like, evolve faster than it currently is. And I want there to be like, language that isn't gendered, that we can use to maybe like, describe a reproductive system. Because that can be useful if you know, like, if you're somebody's doctor, or if you're like studying something, or if it's you, and you're trying to understand your own anatomy.
Quinn Rhodes
Yeah. And like, I think in some ways, I would push back and say that language is there, we can talk about reproductive systems with uteruses and you're clear what it is: you don't need to call it a female reproductive system. Or reproductive systems of penises. And like, there are lots of ways that we can - language is changing and that trans people are using language that doesn't - and obviously, you're right in some ways, the language is not keeping up as fast and definitely the mainstream adoption of this language is not keeping up as fast as like, trans people would want it, but terms like having like "female body parts" - like there's no such thing as like, a female body or a male body. Like those are just bodies which are owned by men and women.
Hannah Witton
That reminds me of like, was it Instagram, or like, some platform's like guidelines about nudity? And it was like, no female presenting nipples?
Quinn Rhodes
Yes. So I should now be able to post my tits on Instagram. I feel like - I feel like Instagram would disagree with me. But like I - by their definition - I'm right. I had a discussion about this with a friend the other day, because actually quite the other day, because it was like still hot at the time of having the discussion. So last summer, basically, I had a discussion with a friend, I'm like, "I would really love to take my top off." But particularly if I'm like binding, as well as wearing a t shirt, I can get really hot in the summer, and like seeing cis men walking out the chests out - it makes me really quite dysphoric. And I'm having a discussion with my friend as to whether I could get my - take my top off. And because I'm a guy be like, "I am allowed to have my top off in public." Or if I would still be like, "You have tits, you should not have your top of in public." And like where the line is when it comes to that. I don't have any official paperwork which supports the fact that I'm a guy is what I'm trying to say there. I have my own internal sense of, you know, who I am, which none of the paperwork agrees with, but what would happen if I was to like, take my top off in public and sunbathe in the park with my tits out.
Hannah Witton
Yeah. And then also like, where's the line if you're a kind of like small breasted cis woman, as well.
Quinn Rhodes
Exactly like, like these things don't make sense. These things are being built -
Hannah Witton
They don't make sense!
Quinn Rhodes
These are also very arbitrary. And just like, based on trying to control people rather than actually like anything to do with our innate bodies or our innate sense of gender.
Hannah Witton
Yeah. And actually speaking on that, you recently retweeted a quote from Judith Butler: "Every time I tried to write about the body, the writing ends up being about language." And so I was wondering about, like, how you feel about this whole relationship that we have with our bodies? And is it predetermined by language? And how do we kind of like live more in our bodies and have those bodily experiences that is maybe outside of some of the limitations that come with language?
Quinn Rhodes
I really like that. I like that quote. And I like that question. I spend a lot of time thinking about the language I use for my body, more than - more so than the average cis person, I imagine, just because I'm constantly navigating a world which will look at my body and, as we said, label it as a woman's body and put like, certain kinds of words on it, whereas those are mostly words I reject for my body. And it's - I spent a lot of time thinking about it and thinking about it and definitely in terms of the ways that I have sex, in terms of thinking about the ways that like, actually make - and like that leads me to feeling about what actually makes me feel good about my body, and present in my body. And I think it's really important that we use language, which actually isn't rooted in shame. And a lot of the time, the first language we learn about our bodies is completely rooted in shame. So it's - we learn to talk about down there or we may be taught by our parents that a penis is a willy or something like that. I have a friend moment whose daughter has just turned three years old. And they're like, she's very comfortable talking about her own vulva because her mom, who is a sex positive woman and a doctor, has taught her that anatomically correct language to talk about her genitals, and I think that's so powerful.
Hannah Witton
Yeah. When I was a kid, it was my woo woo.
Quinn Rhodes
Yeah. See that - how is that - that is not language, which like, sets our young people up to talk about themselves or advocate for themselves in any way. I don't think my mum - I've ever heard my mum at all refer to my vagina or that part of my body. It's just something which wasn't discussed. So even atomically correct language isn't doing - the ideal thing to use the whole time. I obviously am a big advocate of women's health charities doing the work that they do. So endometriosis charities, for example, advocating for people who need them. But I really push back on the fact that they need to talking about how they're for women. And I think they should be able to just say, for people with vulvas, or vaginas, or even uteruses. Like, that's the language you need to use for the people who are going to be affected by endometriosis, not just women. And their response is that if we stop using the word women, women themselves will feel alienated. And I have two responses to that, which is - one is "I don't care if a woman is going to feel alienated because you're trying to include trans people and non-binary people." But at the same time, not everyone has the same language level access. So if someone in the UK who English isn't their first language, they should also be able to access the same services, and may not understand because they've never been taught "person with a vulva" or "person with a vagina" in the same way that we're taught about - that they recognise the word "woman". And so we have to make sure - you really have to take accessibility into account when we have these conversations. And that's something I've really learned how to do. Take accessibility into account when I have these conversations with people.
Hannah Witton
And even for people who English is their first language, because like you were saying, we aren't taught the correct, like, terminology. And again, "correct" terminology for our body parts. You'll get plenty of like adults who are like, "Wait, that's my what? Like, what's that called?"
Quinn Rhodes
Yeah, it's really - it's embarrassing that we've given that and with that lack of language to talk about ourselves comes this huge amount of shame. It's - and lack ability to advocate for ourselves, even talk about what's wrong with our bodies, but it's also a lack of ability to access pleasure, because like, if we can't name the body parts, if we can't talk about what we need, how are we going to be able to, like, fully be present in our bodies and enjoying like, particularly - I'm a sex writer - so sex, how are we going to enjoy sex. Because like, obviously, you can have good sex but being able to meticulously label a diagram of the vagina like that's totally - you can have good sex that way. Sometimes without the language which we have to advocate for ourselves and like talk about pleasure and talk about what we're into we really lose out on like so much opportunity to like connect with our partners and connect with ourselves. And for me, it's been so powerful to like find the language which works for me around my body and really like, get into the ways that I take up space in this world and that is through language and like also physically standing in my body. Which is a thing, a gender thing I say a lot is that I feel like I stand tall in my gender. I'm obviously actually not very tall, but my gender like feels so solid and so strong and my sense of myself feel so strong, that I stand tall in it, even if I'm not physically tall. And I think that comes back to those having the language to talk about your own body and talk without shame about what you're into.
Hannah Witton
So shifting gears slightly to talking about sex stuff.
Quinn Rhodes
Excellent.
Hannah Witton
And also kind of like still on the language kind of thing as well. You've written about whether the word pegging, like, should exist, whether it's actually homophobic, this term. And yeah, I was interested to kind of, like, hear more of your thoughts on that. Maybe like a quick like, what is pegging? Or like when people use the term pegging what are they actually referring to? And then maybe why this isn't very useful.
Quinn Rhodes
Okay, sure. And so pegging traditionally refers to the act where the cis woman will put on a strap on, dildo, and anally top their cis male partner. So that's pegging. And the term pegging actually goes back to Dan Savage, who is -
Hannah Witton
Oh, I didn't know that.
Quinn Rhodes
- he was coming up as a thing where more and more people seemed to be interested in doing this thing, and they were writing in to Dan Savage and being like - and he was like, "Okay, we're gonna find a word for what this thing." And he suggested several, I can't tell you off the top my head what the other ones were, but pegging was the clear winner. So he got his audience to vote on it. So that's why pegging is called pegging.
Hannah Witton
Oh, wow.
Quinn Rhodes
Lots of people say that pegging is a really useful word. Because it makes it more natural and more normalised for cis women to top, anally top their male partners, anally penetrate their male partners.
Hannah Witton
Because like, there's a word for it. So that means that other people are doing it, which means that it's normal.
Quinn Rhodes
It's normal. But it's like, if not calling it anal sex, because anal sex is inherently associated with - particularly if you're a man - getting fucked up the arse - means it like, have an inherent association with queerness, which the average cis straight man is not interested in doing. I don't want to say "for invalid reasons", obviously it's completely okay to not want to feel like you're doing something, quote, unquote, gay. But there is also nothing inherently queer about getting fucked up the arse. Unless you are queer and getting fucked by a queer person, in which case it's very queer.
Hannah Witton
Right, yeah. Yeah, cuz it's kind of like in like a het couple, a cis het couple, if a woman is receiving anal sex, like that still very much has a very, like, heterosexual vibe to it.
Quinn Rhodes
Yes. Because - because this is- I'll let you in on the secret, Hannah - that's because we're okay with sex if the man is dominant, and the woman is submissive in some way. So a man can feel nice and masculine while he's fucking a woman in the arse, but he can feel significantly less masculine when he's getting fucked in the arse even though it feels good.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, the gender roles are still in place. So we're like that's fine.
Quinn Rhodes
The gender roles are still in place. We're not challenging the cis hetero patriarchy at all. That's why it's okay. And like, it's so strange because - like, I'm not saying men were built to be fucked up the arse. Like please don't quote me on that, though that would make an excellent t shirt. But -
Hannah Witton
I'm honestly just loving how much the phrase "fucked up the arse" is coming up? Like I'm so here for it.
Quinn Rhodes
I mean, I wrote an article on this for Refinery29 and I was sure my editor was not going to let me have the phrase "fucked up the arse" in the article and she did let me have it and so I'm now just overusing it all the time cuz I'm very proud of that victory. The thing which people say that we should have the word pegging because it normalises - it normalises different kinds of exploration and different kinds of play and a breaking down, some might say, of those gender roles. My opinion is that it actually enforces those gender roles. "Pegging" is a word to make the idea of anal sex and something associated with queerness more palatable to cis het couples.
Hannah Witton
It's got a cute name.
Quinn Rhodes
Yeah, exactly. It's got a cute name. It's doesn't - like it doesn't evoke queerness even in in a situation where a woman is being more dominant and like wearing a strap on, it's still within the gender roles. So there doesn't need to be another word for getting fucked up the arse because we already have a word for getting fucked up the arse, which is "anal sex". That term pegging neutralises and sanitises the potential queerness of butt sex so it doesn't challenge straight cis men's masculinity. But the problem is that the idea that it could challenge their masculinity in the first place. So the use of the term pegging reinforces the idea that there's something wrong with being gay. In reality, sexual acts and sexual behaviour don't define your sexuality, you define your sexuality, but the idea that we have to have a special word for it if it's a woman means that like men are still seeing it as inferior to get fucked in the ass. It's reinforcing the homophobic notion that men can't be seen to be getting fucked in the arse because that something which only would happen to a woman because women are weak, or only would happened to gay men because gay men are weak.
Hannah Witton
I guess, it like creates this otherness. So it's like, "Pegging is for these kinds of people and then anal sex is for these kinds of people. And I am not like those kinds of people."
Quinn Rhodes
But like - and like we have to examine, like, what is so wrong with being those kinds of people and what ideas are we enforcing by saying that pegging is so different. I think we limit ourselves to like thinking what acts that people quote unquote, "should" be doing as like straight people - like if you're straight and you're cis or you're dating a cis straight person, whatever you do in your sex life, that's not going to magically make you queer. And I'm really passionate about tasking and encouraging people to queer up their sex lives, which some people have a problem with. And some people advocate telling me that I'm just talking about having a good sex life. But I think there is something inherently queer about introducing new communication, new positions, new power dynamics, trying all of these things which don't centre around penis in vagina sex. And those are all really important. The term "pegging" might encourage people to step outside the boxes and explore. But it also reinforces that those boxes are there to begin with, and that's why I have such a problem with it. Particularly when like, like quite a lot of the sex I have could be described as pegging, except that's incredibly dysphoric to me, like I'm not pegging my partner, partners I'm pegging are often not men, and I'm not a woman. I'm a man and it's good for my dick. So what looks like pegging to the world is just me having anal sex with a partner.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, I was actually gonna ask like, what if it was like two cis women - like two lesbians - who were using a strap on and having sex anally? Like, does that have a name? Does it need a name? Probably not.
Quinn Rhodes
I mean, I definitely advocate for the fact it doesn't need a name. It's just what it is. And I'm not - definitely not going - but also I'm not speaking for the lesbian community in saying it doesn't have one because I've had very little lesbian sex in my time, not being a woman. I think that because the term pegging is specifically about what's specifically designed for cis straight women fucking cis straight men in the butt. I don't think there is a term for like if two cis lesbians were doing anal play with a strap on. But I don't I don't think there needs to be. I think sometimes we need to like use the words - just use the words for what they are, and we don't need to cute-ify or sanitise every sex act, like we're allowed to just say anal sex.
Hannah Witton
I recently read this like research article that was about like, IBD, inflammatory bowel disease, and sexuality. And the medical term that they liked to use for anal sex was "receptive anal intercourse". Which I loved. That was - obviously it was like specifically about the person on the receiving end, because of the nature of the what the paper was about. But yeah, it was like, yeah, receptive anal intercourse, so there's another, there's another one to throw into the mix.
Hannah Witton
Okay. Shifting gears. I wanted to chat about the dynamic of masturbation for trans people and when masturbation can be about learning like where you might hold shame or pain in your body, and not just about this, like, sex positive, like, creating pleasure, experience. And like, do you think that maybe we have like quite a narrow view about what masturbation is and can be used for? And yeah, what kinds of things do you think like masturbation can be good for?
Quinn Rhodes
So I'm not sure if you want me to go off on my rant here about how we're marketed masturbation as this brilliant self care thing. And it actually is -
Hannah Witton
Oh my god, please go on that rant. I love that rant!
Quinn Rhodes
So I'm just - I'm very frustrated with companies who are trying to advocate - who are using a very, very normative version of empowerment to try and sell their products. And like telling us that we need to masturbate for self love and self care, while actually not addressing the fact that often these things don't - like these things, don't solve problems and don't fix relationships. These things are really important. Like, I would advocate for everyone to masturbate. Campaigns to sell us sex toys because we should masturbate and love ourselves are based in capitalism and capitalism is so not a thing which like - we're being sold capitalism and girlboss feminism through the language of masturbation.
Hannah Witton
Yeah. And it's really sanitised. Again.
Quinn Rhodes
Yeah, exactly. I'm not a fan of people sanitising sex. Sex is messy and dirty. And we have to talk about consent and sexual assault and reproductive justice and bodily autonomy and those things are all really important parts of the conversation, which brands and big companies really like to miss, skip over when they're talking about these topics. And like masturbation, it can be this - I'm not to say masturbation can't be empowering. It can be really empowering. It's so good for people to sit with their bodies and work out how they like to be touched and own a part of their sexuality which is for them and not about pleasing their partner. All of those things are really important. For me in least, I - lots of my masturbation recently is about completing the stress cycle. I know you've talked to Dr. Emily Nagoski before, and I don't believe she actually advocates for masturbation to complete the stress cycle. But I argue that an orgasm does complete the stress cycle in the same way that going for a run would. It's that release of hormones.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, physical release.
Quinn Rhodes
Physical release, which is really important. So a lot of my masturbation at the moment is - because I'm frankly really fucking depressed - is about completing the stress cycle when I don't have the energy to go for a run. It's about helping me sleep and giving me those lovely sleepy hormones after an orgasm. It's not really about pleasure. I often - I mean, I'm not at the moment because my vibrator's died -
Hannah Witton
Oh, sad.
Quinn Rhodes
- yeah, but when I have like - yeah, really sad - but when I have a powerful enough vibrator, I won't actually touch it to my own junk, I will put it through boxers or something else. Because I almost don't want to react with my own genitalia. I want to do as little as possible, which I think is down to dysphoria. I am - like the amount of time I have, like, genuinely tried to get myself off with my hands is probably less than 10. Like partly cuz I know I'm not going to be strong enough or fast enough to do it. But also partly because I don't like touching my own - my own junk like I'm just - because it's so not what it's like in my head and it just feel so wrong and dysphoric for me.
Hannah Witton
What you were just saying then about like mental health as well, it just got me thinking about like you said, like the messy side of things, of like, "Hey, I'm masturbating, because I'm really fucking depressed and it helps me complete the stress cycle" is not something that like you're going to see on like a sanitised like sex toy like advertising campaign.
Quinn Rhodes
No, you will probably not get an influencer talking about that on Instagram. You will get an influencer holding up a sex toy and talking about the way they masturbated with it and how it feels cute. And maybe not cute, but how it feels empowering and powerful, and they could get themselves off, and are more ready to advocate for their pleasure. And I'm not saying that those are bad things, because those are really, really important things.
Hannah Witton
Yeah. And also, like, that's, that's part of my job. And I'm so aware that like I am like very much in this. But I just think like the that kind of like more messy, like, mental health side of sex and relationships are so important to discuss, because like you said, we kind of, we kind of have these, like mainstream conversations about mental health but we're really struggling still to talk about mental illness. And yeah, I was just wondering, for you like how you try in your life, but then also in your writing, like actually talk about these realities of like, mental health, mental illness, and its impact on sex and relationships and how we could have those conversations better.
Quinn Rhodes
I don't know if I can answer how we can have these conversations better, but I can start with what I'm doing. And like and I'm very - that's the thing, what you've just said is something I say a lot, we're much better at mental health awareness and like, "We need to do mindfulness and exercise and all of these things." And we're much less interested in talking about - talking about depression. And like mental illness. We don't want to talk about schizophrenia, or OCD, or like suicidal ideation. And as like someone who's been not- isn't currently but for most of the last three months have been suicidal every day, it feels like the conversation is stuck in a really limited place. And like, you can see that in both the sex positive community and the community talking about mental health. So we have these very surface level, not surface level - really important conversations about mental health and the important conversations about masturbation, but we're not digging deeper into either of them. We're not talking about mental illness. And we're not talking about crying while you have a butt plug in your arse.
Hannah Witton
Yeah. Which you recently wrote about.
Quinn Rhodes
I did, yeah. Because I want to be like honest about the fact that sex is messy. And not just literally messy, like, I get lube all over my sheets when I put a buttplug in and I get like - have like stains on my clothing and have to like wash them, because there's lube everywhere. But like - and like also shit on the buttplug. Like what I did not include in that blog post was the fact that I pulled the buttplug out of my ass and it's longer than usual and there was like, quite a bit of shit on the end.
Hannah Witton
I mean, I'm all here for the poo talks. So
Quinn Rhodes
Yes, definitely. But like, we don't always have sex, like, in the best frame of mind. Sometimes we have sex for different reasons, to connect with people or to feel close to someone or because we're having a bad day, and we want to get out of our heads and get into our bodies. And, because we want - we're bored and we want something to do. And we're at a stage with with sex positivity that we're only sort of beginning to have some of these conversations. And like we're having these really one on one conversations. They're so important, but they're not like digging into any sort of the deeper reasons why you might have sex or you might masturbate. And I'm answering the previous question again. But we're talking about talking about mental illness.
Quinn Rhodes
So I, I have quite severe depression. I probably am also autistic, which is not a mental illness but is part of the root of why my mental illnesses have got so bad. I'm trying to work it if that's the correct way to phrase that, but I think it is, just personally talking about myself. And I struggled with mental illness the whole time and it definitely impacts my sex life. I've never had sex when I've not been on antidepressants. I remember my first kiss happened after I started antidepressants. Ever since I made my sexual debut I've been on antidepressants, and I still don't know what an orgasm feels like not on antidepressants. SSRIs are notoriously - will suppress your sex drive and also sometimes make it more difficult for you to orgasm and I have no idea if what I'm experiencing when I orgasm is actually what a full orgasm would feel like or if I'm just like having like baby ones, which will be completely different if I ever do manage to come on my antidepressant. Which is like, maybe in like the next 20 years I'll be able to do and like -
Hannah Witton
But it's not short term goal.
Quinn Rhodes
It's not a short term goal. It's like a bucket - like some people have different things on their bucket list, but one of mine is to fuck not on antidepressants just to feel what that would be like and how different that would feel. And when my depression's at its worst, I definitely feel really disconnected to my own body. I get into periods when I'm just feeling really gross the entire time and I have no interest in touching myself. So I will jerk off very clinically with a vibrator. Jam a vibrator against my clitoris and hold it there while scrolling through really, really filthy erotica until I managed to come and then I will turn everything off and often just leave my vibrator in my boxers and fall asleep because I can't - I just can't begin - bear to touch - the idea of touching it and like pulling it out, touch over parts of my junk and now that I've come I have even less interest in coming. I've definitely described myself in the past of being sex repulsed to the point where I'm just like, "I'm not interested in sex." But those times I would still like masturbate in that I will still like make myself come because I'm not getting - because it's part - I need those feel good hormones when I'm really depressed. I need the hormones. I need to complete the stress cycle. I need to get out of my head from it.
Quinn Rhodes
Like it being this like mechanical thing. And I've definitely used masturbation when I've been like, physically ill and like trying to use masturbation to actually like relieve pain.
Quinn Rhodes
Yeah. And like it does that. And it does all of these amazing things. And like, it's really important that we talk about it. And I do try and like - I try not to - on my blog, like I'm talking about mental illness too much, particularly because it like overshadows my entire fucking life at the moment. But like, I also it's very, like - what I want to do with my writing is really make people - make sure people feel less alone and like people can feel seen by other people. So I like, it's important to me to make sure that I am writing about the impact of all the things in my sex life, which is often like me not wanting to have sex for ages. And like, it was so hard the last time - when I was still in a relationship and I went through not wanting to have sex and I'm got to a point where like, I'm not even interested in touching my partner at all. And it just like it felt so hard, because I am usually a very sexual person. Like sex is a way that I connect to people and tell people I love them and not being able to - not having any interest in doing that was really - it's really quite hard and really, like makes me question like parts of my identity.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, and I think that's something that so many people could also relate to, as well, because like, your own sexuality, but then also like, relationships go through phases. And like, we just kind of sometimes expect everything to like always be dandy and just like stay the same. But yeah, you might go through a phase where either you or your partner or partners are just like, "I'm just not interested in sex right now." Whether that's like, for like mental health reasons, or just like a complete unknown, as well. Sometimes where you're like, "Well, what's going on? I just like - my interest in sex has plummeted." Yeah, and like navigating that in relationships can be so tough.
Quinn Rhodes
It really can. Yeah. Our bodies and our minds are rarely on the same page about this stuff and our bodies - and that, like those two things that struggled to line up, it's obviously makes sense it's gonna be very hard for your body and your mind, and your partner's body and your mind all to be on the same page at the same time, which I think leads to a lot of problems in relationships, because we're like expecting everything to be okay and expecting your body to perform and our minds to be up for things and we're just like, they just nope out on us. And that's very frustrating. And definitely, definitely leave us in positions where we're like, "Should I have sex with my partner even though I don't super want to? Because I know my responsive desire will kick in and I will feel more into it once I start going, or should I tell them no even though I'm like, even though It's been ages and I don't know when I will feel good again." And like, obviously, for the audience, like, don't have sex with your partner if you don't want to have sex with your partner, but if you also, if you know, like, "Okay if we - if I read a bit - like if I go into my bedroom and read like erotica for like 15 minutes, I'll, I will suddenly start to get more into it and because my desire's responsive I will get turned on and then I'll be really interested in having sex with them." Like, it's really important to know your body and know where your own mind is at.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, like what is something like - even no matter how small it is, whether it's like on your own or with a partner that you could do with zero pressure for it to escalate, with zero pressure for it to like, go anywhere. And then like, see if you enjoy that.
Quinn Rhodes
Yeah, exactly.
Hannah Witton
And then like, see if you enjoy the next thing, see, or if it just ends there and you're like, "I had some fun time reading that erotica chapter, wasn't that great?"
Quinn Rhodes
Yeah. And like, that's another thing where like, we're very bad as a society saying no to things like particularly once we started something, we feel like definitely feel pressure to keep going. And what we need to be better at being like, "I'm okay up to this point. But now I want to say no." And that's something again, we're really not taught to do at all. Which leads us in positions where we're like, "I kind of want to say no, but I don't know how to say no without hurting my partner's feelings, because I've been really into everything up until now but now I want to stop." And like we don't have don't have the language or the skills. We're not given the language or the skills to talk about those nuances of consent.
Hannah Witton
Yeah. Especially because we just have these expectations that like, you start making out and then you end up having like penis in vagina sex and like, it's just like this natural, like, escalation that's like, that's just how sex goes.
Quinn Rhodes
Yeah, I have so many issues with the - I call it the cisheteronormative sexual script. So the one which, like, you start with kissing, and then making out and you work up through the bases, and you finish with PIV, which finishes when the person with the penis comes and I'm like, that is - there are people who that probably works brilliantly for and I'm really, I'm really, I'm really happy for them.
Hannah Witton
Or it's just like on their menu. It's like part of their like repertoire.
Quinn Rhodes
But that cannot work for the majority of people. Just statistically, that cannot be what works best for the majority of people. And you need to experiment outside of that. and work out what actually works for you when you're not just trying to follow the script you've been taught and the things you've seen in movies. Like you actually need to put in time into like, maybe for you, sex looks like you and your partner sitting on opposite ends of the bed, jerking off and telling each other how hot you are. Maybe it looks like phone sex where your partner reads erotica to you over the phone while you wank yourself off. Maybe it looks like you sucking them off while they spank your ass, like there are so many things which sex could look like. And we really limit ourselves when we tell it - when we follow this very defined script of sex going from like, hand sex to blowjob to PIV. Like, let's take - like those things are totally allowed to be on your menu but like your menu - I would really invite people to like expand what their menu looks like. And like, also be willing to be like, "Those things don't work for me." Because some people like, like - I'm sure there are people who like give their partners oral sex out of a sense of obligation. And like, I am very, I personally could not, could not love giving blowjobs more. But not everyone is like that. And if you really don't like it, you need to be able to feel confident to tell your partner that. I understand why people don't feel confident to tell their partners that because we live in a society where it's the expected thing to do, particularly if you're a woman, is to orally pleasure your partner, but like if you don't want that to be on your sex menu, that shouldn't be on your sex menu. Your sex menu should involve acts which both of you really enjoy doing together.
Hannah Witton
Yeah. I have this weird relationship with blowjobs where like, I love giving them and it does not feel sexual to me at all. Like I don't know what that is. But I've just like ,I'm like "Yeah, I'm more than happy to, I'm so into this but like not sexually."
Quinn Rhodes
That's really interesting.
Hannah Witton
I have - I like, yeah, I'm more than willing. I really enjoy it. But I'm not like turned on by it. It's a different kind of enjoyment.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, yeah. Maybe it's that.
Quinn Rhodes
So I think I sometimes get a bit like that when I'm like specifically sucking dick. The major feeling is not one of arousal but one of like doing something I'm really good at and being in control.
Quinn Rhodes
But then I'm also really into getting my face fucked, which is a very different more definitely more sexual feeling like someone else is in control, someone else's hands are in my hair and they're doing a really lovely thing for my body which I feel very not in control of but in the best way. And that I do have sexual feelings, more strongly sexual about, as opposed to like, I'm just good at this.
Hannah Witton
And that's really interesting that we can take even just like almost the same kind of like sex act that's on your sexual menu, but like just the different position that you do it in or the different like who's in control? And like who, yeah, who's taking charge and what the dynamic is like can change the meaning of it entirely. Like that's also so interesting. And a cool thing to think about.
Quinn Rhodes
It totally is. Have you heard of a yes, no, maybe list?
Hannah Witton
Yes. Do you want to explain?
Quinn Rhodes
Yeah, absolutely. So a yes, no, maybe list is a very simple idea which can be applied to anything, but it's often applied in kink circles, to kink and BDSM negotiations. So it's very simple. You take a long list of sex acts and sexual kink acts. And you make three columns: a yes or no and a maybe. And you go through separately from your partner, and you sort all of these items into yes, no, and maybe depending on whether you want to do them, you're not sure if you want to do them or you might want to do them under certain circumstances, or you don't want to do them. And then you come back together, and you compare your yeses. And the point is not to focus on the things you don't want to do but work out where your sheets overlap and whether there are things you want to do together. And that's a really good way to start getting that sexual menu together and might work out what acts you're both interested in.
Quinn Rhodes
So I was recently laying in bed with a play partner. And I we did - while naked because I'm a massive fucking nerd, we did yes, no, maybe lists together.
Hannah Witton
Yeah!
Quinn Rhodes
So my favourite list is Bex Talks Sex’s list. Because that doesn't only involve a really brilliant A to Z of sex acts, and kink acts, but also involves emotions and words to use, which I think are really important. I think we don't talk about like, I am like -
Hannah Witton
Like how you want to feel during sex?
Quinn Rhodes
Exactly, do you want to feel submissive or powerful? Or do you want to feel like, do you want to feel satisfied? Or do you want to feel dominant? Or all of these really good things. And like, what words do you want to use? Like I am, I really enjoy being called a slut and I enjoy being called a fag in bed. But I like - don't call me a whore because that is super not a like piece of language that I claim, or have any right - like feel like I have any right to use. And that's like a massive turnoff. Maybe not a turn off, but like super wouldn't be something I'm comfortable with. And like, if you're fucking me, and you're talking about how, how gorgeous my cunt looks, I will just like super not be into that. But if you're talking about how much you want to beat my balls, I'm like very here for that.
Hannah Witton
I love that. Yeah. With the yes, no, maybe list as well, one thing that I find really useful is when you're like, if you're going to also discuss like what's in your maybe list, is be like, "Okay, what would turn this into a yes? Or what would turn it into a no?"
Quinn Rhodes
Definitely. So one of the things I did with the partner I was with the other day - so we lay in bed together going through this naked after the first time we'd had sex. And I for every one which we were both a yes on, I was like, "It'd be really hot if you made me give you an example of each of these, each of my yeses and my maybes, to just see where we're at." So I read each one aloud and we discussed if we were feel both into it. And then I would give him an example of a time when I'm like - that it will would be really hot, or a specific situation. And he would build on that and we would discuss things we might potentially do together in the future. And that will just really lovely like it wasn't just the yeses and the maybes but like the details of what specific things about these dynamics or these acts actually really worked for us. So like when it came to fellatio we discussed the dynamics of like getting fucked in the face versus giving a really good blowjob.
Hannah Witton
Yeah. I love that. The sexy storytelling.
Quinn Rhodes
Yes. All about that.
Hannah Witton
Okay, we've got some questions from Instagram that I also wanted to pose to you. Somebody asked: how do you have gender affirming sex with cis people as a trans person?
Quinn Rhodes
Oh, that's a hard question. This is totally doable, but you need to make sure that they're the kind of cis person who is going to respect you - when like, it's very easy for a cis person to use the correct pronouns for you and still think about you as your assigned gender at birth.
Hannah Witton
Right.
Quinn Rhodes
And like I'm not saying the majority of cis people do that. But I think a lot of cis people - if you're using the pronouns, but you're still not changing the way you think about a person, you're still fitting them in your head into the category of man or woman and like it makes sense that we're doing that - humans are taught to do that, to put things in category.
Hannah Witton
We love to category.
Quinn Rhodes
Like it's why we look at you know, a poodle and a Labrador and are like, "Those are both dogs." Like, because we categorise things. But like for me, having sex with cis consists people involves making sure they actually see me as - as a guy. And so um, can I talk about Marvel for a minute?
Hannah Witton
Yeah, go for it!
Quinn Rhodes
So one of my friends -a fellow sex blogger, The Other Livvy - has a blog post which is called Avengers Assemble, in which she discusses what two Avengers characters she would most like to have a threesome with.
Hannah Witton
Ooh.
Quinn Rhodes
Which I think is a brilliant first date question. So because you have to like think - it tells you a lot about the person you're talking to. It tells them - well, for one thing, it tells you whether they've ever had a threesome before and what things they would think could go into planning it. It tells you a little bit about find hot about people. But for me also, if it's a cis guy who names two wome - so if they say Black Widow and Captain Marvel, I'm like, "I'm so here for that threesome. But I'm also a tiny bit concerned that you're not seeing me as a man." And obviously I don't say that to them. But I will look for other clues because like, if someone - if like, if a mostly straight guy has just named like - and I have someone - I've had sex with guys who are still like figuring out their bisexuality. And, like, is that naming to like the two - the only two, essentially - they're not the only two, but it sometimes feels like that when you're looking at the MCU - female characters, you're like, "Okay, am I sure? Am I sure that you're seeing me as a guy?"
For me the biggest like green flag has been cis people who asked the right questions. So the cis guy I slept with who we did the yes, no, maybe list with, he asked me questions like, "What language you want me to use about your junk? What language do you - what words are you okay with? Are you okay with me like touching your junk? Are you okay, we'll be touching your chest?" I don't know if he asked all of those, like he asked most of those and then I volunteered information about my chest, but I was like, "And then this is like, you cannot pinch my nipples because I will totally freak out. You can grab my chest fiercely, but don't touch my nipples." Fiercely, roughly. But I think it's like about doing those things. And like some of that information, you should be volunteering yourself. Okay, so it sounds a bit corny, but like, if they're not aware that sleeping for trans person is a fucking honour, because we are the hottest people ever, like, then you don't want to be - they should know that there are more questions to ask and more things to do. So make sure that if you're not feeling like they actually understand what they're doing then I would, I wouldn't do it. Or I would ask them like, "Do you understand that this is like having sex with someone who like, doesn't always have a linear relationship to their body?" And like, it does take more - I think it takes one negotiating but it also like has totally led to my best, like, the best sex I've had has been T4T sex like hands down.
Hannah Witton
Okay, so that's with another trans person.
Quinn Rhodes
So T4T stands for trans for trans. And yeah, that's definitely the best sex I have. And the filthiest, the most lewd, the most - the most fun as well. To make sure you're having gender affirming sex, make sure that the person who you're going to be fucking knows that, like, knows enough about your gender to like respect it and make sure that they respect it as much when your clothes are off and you might look less like you look in your head.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, yeah, that's a really good point.
Quinn Rhodes
Because I definitely sometimes forget that I have tits and then I'm naked and I'm like, "I'm very aware of my tits at the moment." I'm like, "I did not, did not sign up for this. Like, where can I unsubscribe from my chest?" You want to make sure that you really trust that person before you get naked with them and it's okay to be like, "I am not comfortable having sex with this person because my gender is too delicate and I'm not exposing that to cis people at the moment."
Hannah Witton
Yeah. Somebody else asked: is it difficult getting comfortable with yourself sexually when you start transitioning?
Quinn Rhodes
So it depends what they mean by transitioning. If they mean medically transitioning, I can't speak to that particular yet cuz I am still haven't started my medical transition. I am still - I haven't taken hormones, I haven't top surgery yet. Even though those are things I want to do. But like the whole process of transitioning, I refer to it more stepping into my gender. So it's not based on coming out to people. It's not even based on the way that I interact with society. It's based on the way I interact with myself. It didn't take me some time to like, come to that, but it made me reexamine all the ways that I had been approaching my body, and just all the ways that I could approach it differently in a way which would feel so much better for me. Using words like jerking off when I talk about masturbation now, because that is such a word, which we don't - like I would say that a woman can totally jerk off. Jerking off of usually associated with people with penises, and even though I have what technically people would view as a vulva, I still use language like that about my masturbation to make it feel more gender affirming. And like, there's probably always going to be a period of like readjusting your body and your mind to where it's at. But it's important not to like rush yourself or feel like you have to be okay with everything. Like dysphoria around our body and changes in our body are going to take time. And you need to be like - make sure you're not putting pressure on yourself to like suddenly be okay with everything. You're allowed to take time and rediscover yourself and like a great way to do that is like make - like reading the work of other people who have done it. Like go and seek out the voices of other like trans sex writers and people who've written about these things before and - I feel like we should at this point be able a list a whole bunch but I will have some links for Hannah in the shownotes.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, perfect!
Quinn Rhodes
It's okay to like have to take time with these things. These things are not like, genuinely are quite - can be quite messy and quite complicated. So know that it's okay to take time and seek out other voices because you'll feel less alone if you're like reading stuff and like everyone has this when they go through, start transitioning, they'll have moments of being like, "What the fuck am I doing with my body? With my junk? With sex?"
Hannah Witton
Yeah. Oh, well, Quinn, thank you so much for coming on the podcast and just like sharing all of your, your thoughts and experiences with us? Where can people find you online? And where can people like support your work?
Quinn Rhodes
Awesome. So I have - you can find my blog at onqueerstreet.com where I write about polyamory, mental illness, sexual shame, and I post super hot erotica featuring queer and trans characters. And as Hannah mentioned earlier I've recently reviewed the Hot Octopus PleX, which is a really cool vibrating buttplug, except it's really a post about heartbreak, so heartbreak and buttplugs.
Hannah Witton
Love that.
Quinn Rhodes
If you want to support my work, you can head over to my Patreon account, which is patreon.com/onqueerstreet, where you get early access to the audio porn I make. And you can pay for trans sensitivity reads of any of your work. So if you're a person who wants to make sure that your work is actually inclusive of trans people, I'll do a read of it and tell you where you're fucking up essentially. And I also have a story which is going to be coming out in Hecking Lewd, which is an anthology of trans and non-binary erotica by trans and non-binary writers.
Hannah Witton
Oh, cool!
Quinn Rhodes
It's being edited by the wonderful Mx Nillin. And my story is called Sex with Your Ex and the anthology is coming out later in 2022 from Bold Strokes Books, so.
Hannah Witton
Oh, amazing.
Quinn Rhodes
Don't have any pre order links for you yet, but you should definitely check that out when it's out because it's going to be super hot.
Hannah Witton
Yeah. And do let us know when that does come out because then we can post it on our socials as well.
Quinn Rhodes
Awesome, yes, I will.
Hannah Witton
Well, thank you so much, Quinn. This has been great. And thank you all so much for listening. Bye!
Quinn Rhodes
Bye!