Is Kink Always Sexual? and Discovering Your Kinky Side with Amp Somers | Transcript
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Hannah Witton
Welcome to Doing It with me, Hannah Witton, where we talk all things sex, relationships, dating, and our bodies. Hello, welcome back to Doing It. So one topic in the world of sex and relationships that I don't think we've really gotten our teeth into, on this podcast yet is the world of kink and BDSM. So that's what we're doing here today. And as usual, I have roped in an expert, pun very much intended. Amp Somers, aka Pup Amp from Watts the Safe Word, to educate and enlighten me, and maybe you too. Amp is a blogger, sex worker, and activist and creator of Watts the Safe Word, which is a YouTube channel, Twitch, podcast, and online community where he talks about sex, kink, and LGBTQ+ issues. And so I thought Amp would be the perfect person for me to ask all of my questions about kink. We try to define kink and BDSM and talk about a lot of the misconceptions in a post 50 Shades world. We talk about animal play, which is definitely a kink that has a lot of stigma and judgement around it. And we get into how kink isn't always sexual because - shock horror! - kink isn't just about sex. And Amp's experience being demisexual and kinky. And we get into lots of other stuff like how to discover what your kinks are, kink sex work, and the controversy of if kink belongs at Pride events. Spoiler alert: it absolutely does.
Amp also interviewed me for his podcast all about my work and thoughts and experiences with sex and relationships, which will also be out this week. It is a podcast collab crossover. So I hope that you enjoy. As usual you can find more info and links to everything we talked about in this episode in the show notes over at doingitpodcast.co.uk and please let us know what you think over on our Twitter or Instagram which is @doingitpodcast. If you like this episode, please give us a rating and review over on iTunes, it is really appreciated. And here is my kink filled chat with Amp Somers.
Hannah Witton
Amp, welcome to Doing It! I'm so excited to dive into the whole world of kink with you.
Amp Somers
Thank you so much for having me, thank you! Oh I'm excited as well.
Hannah Witton
I feel like we've just missed each other in life and work many times. Like we should have met before now but it just never happened but here we are.
Amp Somers
So true but like we have so many friends in common so - when you live online in like a digital space you're just always like have I taken a picture with this? Have I met this person in passing at whatever random convention?
Hannah Witton
I know! My email to you it's just like, "hi nice to meet you! But also have we met? I'm so sorry if we've - "
Amp Somers
I'm just like ... maybe? Regardless, I'm so excited!
Hannah Witton
But now we're making content together and, you know, that that cements it really, doesn't it>
Amp Somers
it's true. It's true. The ship is sailing now. Do ships still exists. Oh, I'm old on the internet.
Hannah Witton
No, we just teleport now.
Amp Somers
Oh, okay. Beam me up.
Hannah Witton
Love it. Okay, do you wanna tell us a bit about yourself? You're a sex educator, you talk loads about kink and the LGBTQ+ community. But give us your spiel.
Amp Somers
Absolutely. Emphasis on loads. No, I'm kidding. I'm a sex educator. I started like a lot of educators on the internet. You're watching people you enjoy, you're kind of inspired, but you don't really see yourself in that media. I'm a gay, you know, queer cis guy, he/him pronouns. But I started out just watching like, you know, It's Grace, or at the time it was like Daily Grace, and Mamrie and Hannah and all them.
Hannah Witton
Oh, my God, the Holy Trinity.
Amp Somers
Exactly. Back in the day - and they still obviously create stuff, but like. I saw, I saw you, I saw, you know, Sexplanations, and was just like, I love all of this but where's the queer kinky, like, gay stuff? And then I just started creating. I've always had a really good time. And as we've created, you know - myself and my partner, we're in a gay relationship, we're polyamorous, so like, our audience started out very masculine, very, you know, men heavy, but since then we've kind of like we're at, we're at a real stale - like, not stale, but a real even 50/50 of men, women.
Hannah Witton
Oh nice!
Amp Somers
Obviously, Google doesn't really track non binary or anywhere in between. But we've just kind of moved into sex education for the greater masses with the kink perspective.
Hannah Witton
I love that.
Amp Somers
Sorry, that was a really long elevator speech.
Hannah Witton
No, no, it's great. So yeah, I have so many questions about kink, as, you know, your resident vanilla sex educator.
Amp Somers
Hit me. With consent.
Hannah Witton
But - okay, yeah, great, love that. We're already bringing in the consent. But I guess first, I think it's important to define what we mean by kink because there are a lot of misconceptions out there. Especially in you know, like a post 50 Shades of Grey era. A lot of, I don't know, just like assumptions that we have about what kink actually is and what it looks like. And then the reality of it for people who are kinksters and are, you know, living and breathing this stuff like that, like, that's not my experience. And yeah, so maybe first of all, like, what's the difference between kink and BDSM? Shall we start there?
Amp Somers
Sure. Yeah, why not? I mean, kink - like we talk about it I feel like every week, it's just like, we have to always explain what kink is because if someone's just popping on the channel or finds a random video, you just want to make sure you're like real good with it. But kink is just anything not vanilla. And that's - not penetrative PIV, like penis in vagina sex, is kink. You could, you could literally have a kink for just about anything. Or like BDSM is the acronym for bondage, discipline, sadism, and masochism. Or sub and master. The S and the M switches depending on - depending on who we ask.
Hannah Witton
Sub, dom, yeah.
Amp Somers
Yeah. But it's, it's kind of just breaking down the different aspects of a kinky lifestyle, per se. And just kind of defining it in such a way that we break it down and you kind of, you kind of get a good idea for it. But a lot of people will kind of use the terms like back and forth. They'll say kink to mean fetish, fetish to mean kink, paraphilia, like BDSM, it's all kind of umbrella terms. So I don't define - I don't really draw a line in the sand all the time. Because most people mean one thing when they say the other regardless, but it's just anything that's not vanilla sex.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, that's a interesting definition. Because I feel like then most people are probably kinky then because we have a very, like, narrow, like definition in terms of like the dominant narrative of like, what normal and vanilla like sex is.
Amp Somers
Yeah.
Hannah Witton
And there are loads of people who - straight cis, for the most part vanilla monogamous, who maybe aren't having that kind of sex. And now maybe they're like, oh. Am I kinky?
Amp Somers
And I always go back to this story, because it was just like, it was one of those like, spider bite moments like, aha! Like I used to work full time for a fetish company called Mr. S Leather. So we would go to like all the conventions all over all over the world and like sell stuff, or just be there as a vendor. And there was one time where this dominatrix was shopping for some gear. Specifically, a chastity device for her straight, you know, cis guy submissive, and she left him with me for a bit because I was running the chastity department at that convention. And we had a good conversation, but he was like, you know, pretty much just as I'm like, helping him put things onto his genitals, he's like, "Yeah, I don't really get the kink stuff, but she's really great. And we have a great relationship, and I get along with her." And then he just starts going on about her boobs. Like for a good 10 minutes, as I'm trying things on for him and at one point, I just turned them like, "So I know you said you're not kinky, and I'm not trying to like project whatsoever. But like, do you just like really like boobs? Like, is that your thing?" He's like, "Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Like I can't I can't get off without 'em. Like, I'm just all about it. And like, I love her, obviously, but like she just has great boobs." And i'm like, "Do you think you might have like a kink for boobs?" And the way his mind broke, as I'm like, touching his genitals and like getting things on them. He was just like, "Oh, my God." And I was like, "Yeah, maybe you have a kink?" And he's like, oh. So I think -
Hannah Witton
But also because I think there's this assumption that like straight cis men should be into boobs and are into boobs. And that's a very, like, normal thing for straight sis men.
Amp Somers
Yeah.
Hannah Witton
That actually there's loads that like, are like, eh, give or take boobs?
Amp Somers
Sure.
Hannah Witton
And so if you're like, if you're like, fully, like into boobs, maybe you've never like thought about it as a kink because you're like, that's normal. Or that's vanilla. Yeah.
Amp Somers
Exactly. It's just having those conversations - and we were obviously in a very sex positive environment. So like, it wasn't, we weren't like forcing anything in the conversation. I was like, "Have you ever thought about that?" And he was just kinda like, Huh, I have things to explore and think about now." But I like what you say is like, I think everyone has a certain thing that makes them tick, you know, and it doesn't have to be - you don't have to call it a kink but I mean, it could be seen as a kink very easily depending on how you define something. Words only serve us so much, depending on how we use them.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, that's true. That's true. So like a few different ways that I've heard kink being talked about, and I'd love to know like, if any of these resonate with you in terms of like how you identify with your own kinkiness in terms of like - so there's like, like kinky sex, which might be kind of just like bedroom kink of just like people in the privacy of their own home, just like maybe a bit of blindfolds, maybe a bit of spanking, like kink - some some kinky sexy time, right? That's the kind of, I'm guessing like the vanilla imagination of kinky sex.
Amp Somers
Fuzzy handcuffs!
Hannah Witton
Yeah, exactly. But then you've got kink as a lifestyle. And like your relationship dynamic being kinky or there being, like, a negotiated power dynamic there that could be part of like a BDSM relationship. And then another way that I've heard it being described is as like kinksters being serious hobbyists. Of it being, yeah, like this, this hobby that you take really seriously and my current hobby that I'm taking very seriously is tennis. And the way that I think about it, I'm like, oh yeah, cuz if you're like, if you get really really into a hobby you're like, oh, like the equipment and figuring out like the best materials and equipment to use, and it's also part of your social life because you meet people through doing the hobby together.
Amp Somers
Almost like having a fetish for the fetish in a way.
Hannah Witton
Right?
Amp Somers
I've heard - I've heard all sorts of I mean, everyone falls into many shades of grey pun intended, you know. The movie wasn't great, but it did a lot for like visualisation and and just becoming a pop cultural phenomenon, like that brought tonnes of people to the community. I will say I'm a - I'm a lifestyler, if that's what I would call it, just because again I used to work full time at a fetish shop, I live here in the Castro in San Francisco, so we go to, you know, bars specifically that are you know, every Sunday there's like leather events at a bar and we go and socialise. You know, when it's not COVID obviously. I'm sitting here early in the morning you know doing sex and education podcast and then I'll go and probably be editing a video after this. So kink's very much a part of my life but you know everyone everyone's doing it differently. I know plenty of people that only show up every once in a while but they love kink in the bedroom, but they're very, like straight laced and very professional when they go out and about but they're, you know, very picky when it comes to the bedroom.
Hannah Witton
Nice. Um, so what is - what would you call your relationship dynamic? Because you said you're polyamorous? Yeah.
Amp Somers
Yeah. Gay, poly. And I have one primary partner, who I call daddy in, in, you know, in the real world - it doesn't - it's not even a slipping thing anymore. It's just what I call him. And he calls me his pup. And we've been together for six years. So it's not monogamous, it's very poly. And we have people that come and go. But we've always just been there for each other. We live - we live together apart. If you - have you heard of LTAs?
Hannah Witton
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, I have heard - we actually just had someone on the podcast who was in a like a temporary LTA situation. Yeah, so you live in separate homes?
Amp Somers
Yeah. Because like, this is my streaming room, but it's also my living room. So like, if I'm streaming on Twitch for you know, six, seven hours, obviously we need our space - and he just lives right down the block, though.
Hannah Witton
Oh, nice.
Amp Somers
We get along.
Hannah Witton
That's the dream. Just like fully just like your own space, just like but you can just like knock on and be like, hey, partner. Or, hey daddy. Yeah.
Amp Somers
Exactly.
Hannah Witton
Yeah. Like at the beginning of that kind of relationship, like, how did you go about negotiating names and roles? Or was it something that just kind of like happened organically like, as you got to know each other?
Amp Somers
Sure. So like this was - so I've known him for, I think, maybe around 10 years at this point, but we've only been together for six going on seven. But we both used to work the convention scene at these, at these sex conventions. So our paths crossed a lot. And he was in another relationship. I was doing my own thing. But when we both became single, we kind of - it was, it wasn't a relationship. It was just kind of play. You know, we didn't call it a boyfriend boyfriend thing. We were just daddy and puppy. We had fun. We visited each other in our respective cities that we lived in at the time. But the first time I went and visited him, like made the trip out and stayed with him for the week was when I was like, " So what do I call you?" And we had this nice conversation as we're driving out to wine country where he lived. And he's like, "Well, I mean, I'll call you pup. And, you know, I like sir or, or master." And I was like, "How about Daddy?" And just the look they gave me like I'm not - I'm not old. I'm old enough to be a daddy. I mean, keeping in mind like he was just a few years younger than my -
Hannah Witton
But old enough to be a sir!
Amp Somers
Yeah! Unfortunately for him, it stuck. And then everyone calls him Daddy, now. So it was just, you know,
Hannah Witton
Does that mean I can call him Daddy too?
Amp Somers
Oh absolutely, absolutely.
Hannah Witton
Love that. How did you discover you are kinky?
Amp Somers
Oh, um like most people. You were doing things as a kid going on into your teen years, and you felt something in your stomach that fluttered when you got like caught in the cops and robbers game that you played in the neighbourhood, which is literally what happened. For whatever, whatever reason, one of the other kids had rope. And we were tying people down to the chair and like playing you know, cops and robbers and it was my turn to get tied down and I was like, at 12 I was kind of like, "I don't know what's going on. But I like this?"
Hannah Witton
I like it!
Amp Somers
"I like this?" And then you know, the internet and just kind of explored from there. But when I became sexually active, I found that kink wasn't something that you got a lot of education on. Didn't really have tons of resources back then. And that's when we started you know, the YouTube thing. I did sex work with Kink.com for a good number of years. Yeah. I dived headfirst into the the kinky pool.
Hannah Witton
I love that. You're like, this thing made me feel interesting, so let's just -
Amp Somers
Jumped into it.
Hannah Witton
Do you think that like, do you think that most people kind of discover their own kinks like accidentally?
Amp Somers
I don't want to say most people, but I will say like - the - again, we use the Spider Man reference, the spider bite, like it happens for everyone. And everyone always remembers - not everyone, but most people remember, like, when it happened, and how they accidentally fell into it. You know, whether it was like you accidentally got slapped by someone, and then you kind of just felt like, oh! Or if it was, you know, like, playing cops and robbers with kids or just wrestling around like - we don't talk about - and I think a lot of people don't - the people that don't have that spider bite don't realise it, because we don't talk about sex. And they didn't know how to process that feeling, probably. But I hope that more and more, we're being more open with conversations, you know, slowly but surely.
Hannah Witton
Yeah. Yeah, I hope so, as well. And I think also that people sometimes, like, freak out or feel a bit weird by stories like that, especially because they're like, "Wait, you were 12. And you've discovered kink?" And it's like, no, that's not like, what's happening.
Amp Somers
When you take the words out of con - no. Obviously, like, I didn't get into kink. And then when I became you know, legally, I could, like start having the sex, you know, I jumped on the apps and found kinky people and got tied up and all history from there, but I liked it from a not sexual perspective too like, I'm sure - and I'm curious about your kinks as well, which I'm sure we'll get into - but, or if you have any, that you that you might have perspective. But like bondage for me was always like my biggest first kink. And it was always just aesthetically, I really liked just looking at it too. Like it's just fun to tie knots. So it wasn't always sexual either.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, and I think that's a big misconception as well is that people assume that like kink always means like kinky sex. But the more that I've also been learning about kink is that it's not always sexual. And you said the word before - that a lot of it is play. And again, this like, sounds really weird, but it's, but it's like you said, like, you're playing cops and robbers as a kid. And then like, kink is like an adult version of play. If you think about like roles and creating like a scene, and then playing out that scene. And then it's just like, it's elevated into like, adulthood, because maybe there's some sex stuff involved. But also like, there are potential, like, risks involved depending on like, what kind of kink or BDSM that you're doing. So that's something that like, is not for kids obviously.
Amp Somers
Absolutely.
Hannah Witton
But the kind of like that foundation of like, let's play, let's explore, let's, like, pretend to be something else and like play roles and like, interact with each other in this like way that we've designed that feels - like when you were in the playground playing mummies and daddies
Amp Somers
I mean there's plenty of playground at the adult events too, but there's usually people hanging from them in different ways - no.
Hannah Witton
Yeah. Adult - adult monkey bars. And all sorts of things.
Amp Somers
And I mean, I - so when I was working at the sex shop that I used to work at, like I was designing stuff and I had like a desk, you know, upstairs. Downstairs was this gigantic, pretty much store room floor, toys upon toys. But then upstairs like - I had full view of like our studio where we shot commercials and stuff and it was just like, a jungle gym. There's always some, some naked people, you know, trying out toys and recording things to like. - but anyway, back to your question, which I think was like, is it always sexual? No, like, easy, easy answer. No, because like, a lot of people come and find their kinks. And they do it sometimes sexually, but sometimes it's just nice to get like that, that emotion out, that feeling out, like cathartic, like flogging or other impacty sorts of things for a lot of people are not just about sex. Like, you might not even be aroused or hard as you're getting flogged. It might just be something that like really helps get your juices flowing. For some people, they get not - not a replacement for therapy, but they get therapeutic-like feelings by by getting into their kinks with someone and like you're also making a connection. Especially if it's someone that you've trusted and you're having conversations with. And you have, you know, if you have a Daddy that you're getting really close with, like it's not always sexual, but it is always something very personal.
Hannah Witton
Yeah. And like potentially quite intimate and still quite physical. A lot of them sometimes. Yeah.
Amp Somers
Absolutely. Oh, and there's tonnes of kinky people out there too. Like, recently I talked about just being - because I'm demi myself when it comes to you know, relationships. And people have a hard time of like, "Wait, but you talk about sex non stop. But you don't always have sex - like, you're not just in this for the sex?" I'm like, no, it's like, everyone's different. But ace kinky people are definitely out there. And they're yelling about how they exist when people come in and are like what about sex negative people, what - you can't just push kink in their face, and it's like, even sex averse people enjoy kinks.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, yeah, the way that I've had it being explained before when I was just like, as somebody who is allosexual and was trying to wrap my head around, like, why would you put yourself through something like that if it's not, like sexually arousing or pleasurable, right? But they were explaining how like, there are all sorts of kinds of pleasures, like not just like sexual pleasure. And I was like, oh yeah, this is actually something that I talk about a lot, about embracing all kinds of pleasure. But that - back to my tennis analogy, as well, of like when you're playing a really good game of tennis and it's like physically like challenging and you're in pain, but you're like enjoying it and then afterwards - and just the endorphin release and that feeling that rush of like afterwards when you're like kind of like still in physical pain but you're like that was amazing.
Amp Somers
Yeah, it's the adrenaline.
Hannah Witton
Like if you just - if you just like climbed a mountain that was like an exhausting, like, really physically tough and like enduring kind of climb and then you get to the top and you're like, oh my god I did it
Amp Somers
No, that's exactly, exactly. There's - there's that success, that accomplishment factor that comes with it as well, when you accomplish a certain level of whatever you're getting into.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, yeah, there's - I've definitely come across a lot of that in terms of like, especially for people who are submissive of like how much pain they can take as well.
Amp Somers
Yeah, so like when I was getting into kink and - and I knew I was kinky obviously. I knew what I liked. I liked bondage and I liked you know, puppy play, which is like this animal roleplay, but then as I was, you know, becoming active and doing more and more sex work and finding out about Kink.com like, I'm not really into a lot of pain. I'm not into a lot of like heavy impact sorts of play. I've definitely done a lot of very intense - what many people would consider very varsity level kink on camera because I wanted to try it out. I wanted to, I wanted to get those endorphins, but I also wanted to figure out like, do I like this? Am I into this? And so consciously like pushing myself and trying other things, and in the process, finding some things I liked. But at the same time, even if I didn't love it, I walked away from that scene feeling accomplished and feeling like oh my god, I did that and oh so much, so many chemicals going in my brain and like riding high on all those endorphins. So I absolutely - even if I'm not like super into that at all times like, there are moments and times where I'm like, I want to try something intense because it's fun and crazy.
Hannah Witton
Like a challenge!
Amp Somers
Challenge. Exactly.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, you're like, ooh, can I do this? So with like animal roleplay and puppy play, I feel like that's something that gets a lot of judgement from like, outside of the kinky world. And I was just wondering, what do you like about it?
Amp Somers
Sure. I like it - I like animal roleplay, puppy play, because it is playful. It is something that does not - again, it's not always sexual for people. It's only with actual people. No animals are ever involved, like the misconceptions, get those out of the way. But like, if you just were like talking to someone that was like, maybe interested or just had questions about it. The first place I always go is like, well, like, if you were a dog, or a cat, or whatever animal you would roleplay as, like, how would that look? How would you be? Because every person has a different idea of what a dog acts like, or what the ideal dog like is playfully, or, you know, whether they're they're, like mischievous dogs, or maybe they're a Rottweiler versus like a Chihuahua. Like, everyone has like a dog that they see in their mind when they get into the play. And I just love how not scary it is. But how playful and approachable it is. Because when we think of kink, we think of maybe 50 Shades of Grey, or like an American Horror Story gimp suit, but honestly, puppy play is very playful. It's like this beginner level kink that you can just get into and wrestle around and have fun. And that's what I love about it.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, I mean, again, like it - like you said, with the playfulness, I feel like that we kind of have this idea that like once you become an adult, you're not allowed to play anymore. And you can't - you have to like be serious all of the time. And you're not allowed to have fun. Do you know what I mean?
Amp Somers
I do!
Hannah Witton
Like, by embracing something like puppy play, or any kind of like, role playing and like, kind of kinks like that, you're just going, hey, no, I'm an adult, and I can still like play around. And I can still like have - I want to say childish fun, but without obviously those connotations. But yeah, and actually, you just saying that made me think I was like, oh, if I wanted to like roleplay as any animal I would probably want to be a cat just because I'm the kind of person who - I'm like, give me attention, stroke me. Like, let me just curl up on your lap whilst you just like, you know, stroke my hair and be nice to me - like that. That's what I want.
Amp Somers
No, absolutely. But if you touch me in the wrong spot - attack!
Hannah Witton
Yeah, exactly. Just like, no! Bad!
Amp Somers
Yeah, no, I'm more. I'm more of a German Shepherd myself, like loyal and dependable. I think that I'm smaller than I actually am. And I like jump on you to cuddle, but like very affectionate, very affectionate.
Hannah Witton
I love that. So one thing that comes up a lot with like kink and BDSM is aftercare. And people often talk about aftercare for the submissive. But I was wondering, what does aftercare for a dom look like?
Amp Somers
Sure. Sometimes it could be space, sometimes it could be snacks. My Daddy is a very like low blood sugar sort of daddy. So when things are done, or when we've accomplished something if you don't have snacks ready, you might die. You know, he might, he might attack and be hangry.
Hannah Witton
Okay, yeah, yeah.
Amp Somers
So aftercare for him is snacks. Just cuddling, affection. Maybe a good rom com or movie. For me, like I like just being able to unwind, play some video games. Again, food and snacks is always good, but everyone's a little bit different. Because we all unwind differently. But aftercare for tops is absolutely a thing.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, cuz I feel like people assume that they don't need the aftercare.
Amp Somers
No, I mean, if you're doing - especially if you're like getting into something that's a bit more like pain and pleasure, like doing, doing, putting someone in a physical situation like that, and especially exerting yourself, if you're like hitting someone with a flogger for 30 minutes. Like yeaah, getting - receiving that is a lot. But like, providing that is also a lot too because not only are you putting someone in that stressful position, you might be taxing on you emotionally and physically like the top is doing a lot of work there as well. Even though they're not the one receiving it, that energy is going, yeah. And so they need that aftercare too.
Hannah Witton
For sure. What do you do in a situation if the people involved in a scene need different kinds of aftercare? Kind of like who gets the aftercare first? How do you like negotiate, making sure that everyone is looked after?
Amp Somers
Oh, good question. I think that comes into like the pre-scene negotiation, the conversations like asking someone - and this is why kink is so great is like a - this is why we should talk about it more - is like, conversations. People have a lot more conversations in the kinky realm. We talk about negotiation and consent. We ask people, you know, what does it look like when you're in pleasure? What does it look like when you're in pain? What does it look like afterwards? What do you need? What do you need? Like do I need to have some Teddy Grahams on the side for afterwards? Do I need to have like video games queued up, or do you just want to cuddle in like watch a movie? And that's where I think just having this communications beforehand is is what kink does really well.
Hannah Witton
Yeah. So when you were doing sex work as well, how does that work in terms of aftercare if like, I'm guessing like the person who pays you, they get aftercare because that's part of like what they want and need in the negotiation. But how does the sex worker get aftercare?
Amp Somers
Oh, good question. Um, well, I think first and foremost, we should say that there is aftercare happening, but usually you don't see it. A lot of people don't think that like, especially with Kink.com stuff, which is again varsity level kink, people don't see the the aftercare there so they just assume that we don't get it. But in a sex work scene, you know, we've got - there's tonnes of snacks on set, there's tonnes of, you know, we get breaks, like every every 30 minutes - because you're seeing, you know, maybe an hour long movie, but as I'm sure you know, it takes an entire day to shoot that maybe hour long movie. So we're there for six, seven hours. And if you're trying to stay aroused, or hard for six or seven hours, that's just not possible. We have lunch breaks, you know, we're allowed to bring our phones and anything else that we need on set just to help us unwind. But when you're riding that rollercoaster, if you don't have those, those peaks and valleys, you're gonna just - you're gonna -
Hannah Witton
You can't sustain that.
Amp Somers
Yeah. Especially as a penis haver, like that erections not gonna be there for the entire time.
Hannah Witton
You're just like, that's just not realistic. Yeah. Okay, so some people have questions, some of our listeners, and somebody asked - and I feel like, we kind of talked about this at the beginning, but also it can get quite existential, which I love, which is: when does something could become a kink?
Amp Somers
Oh, well, technically, when you want to have that present to get off. When like that, that arouses you to get off. Now, kink versus fetish - fetish is something you absolutely need and it's usually a more specific like body part or like underwear as a fetish, like you are you're pinpointed on that thing. And you need it. Or kink is like this fun extra, like, extra, like chocolate syrup on top of the ice cream, you know. The vanilla ice cream, you put some extra stuff on top of it. And it's fun, and it's different. So when - when does it become a kink whenever you want to get it in the bedroom and it is something that's not vanilla sex?
Hannah Witton
There you go.
Amp Somers
Very vague, vague, open ended answer, but like.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, but I think it allows for people to kind of like, be able to define their own interests and behaviours in a way that like feels comfortable to them, because there might be some people who like feel really empowered by that definition, because they're like, "Oh my god, I can now use this word kink and that feels really great for me." But then there might be other people who are like, "Noh, that - what I do is just what I do and I don't really resonate with the word kink or anything like that."
Amp Somers
And that's fine. I mean, it's very much like a second coming out for a lot of people like kinksters will - will talk about if they're queer like oh, I came out as you know, gay or bi or trans. But then like, if they are also kinky down the line then they have that second coming out where it feels like another coming out for some people, because your very straight laced vanilla friends or if you come out to your family, which some people are very comfortable with their family, it still feels like, you know, you're you're showing another very intimate side to who you are that not everyone is very open about
Hannah Witton
Yeah, and actually on that note, you made a lot of content this year around kink at Pride because there's a lot of people who don't think that kink should be at Pride. Obviously you're queer and kinky so and obviously a lot of people who are kinky are also queer. So there's like that crossover. But what is - the what is the whole schtick? What is the whole deal with kink at pride?
Amp Somers
I mean, honestly, it happens every year, Hannah. Every year like it always comes back but this last year especially because some streamers were very outspoken and they had a base of like meme-y people that were like really pushing and and lighting the fire. So it really exploded, but what it came out to be was like people are getting very uncomfortable because people are, you know, expressing - I'm doing air quotes - "expressing their fetish to children", which was not the case for Pride events. Like as a kinkster that's been involved in many, many pride marches in many different cities. There is a dress code, kinksters as well as leather people are always there and they are always adhering to it or else they would not be able to be in the parade.
Amp Somers
But at the very heart of it, like kinky people have been a part of the LGBTQ+ movement since its - before its inception, you know. We've been here, we've always been out here. As far as like AIDS and HIV, we got through that specifically because of biker clubs. And you know, dykes on bikes. That's why we, we love the dykes on bikes so much in all of our Pride parades, because like, as gay men, we would not have made it through that without our queer community, and without our fundraising. And so when, when people see like dog masks, for instance, and they see that kids are at this event, and people are in dog masks in front of them, they're like, "Oh, they're having sex." But really, this goes back to the whole it's not always sexual thing. Me standing in some leather, and wearing a dog mask are or not, is me just advocating for, hey, I'm queer, I'm kinky. I'm here. And if you have questions about that, and it's appropriate to have a conversation, like, come up to me at this event, and let's have a conversation, I can tell you about leather. And I can tell you where to find groups that are going to be good for educating. But like, I'm not there to have sex. And I'm certainly not having sex in public like that was kind of the big outrage. But my thing is always like, as someone who's like, on that, that ace spectrum as a demisexual person, like, it's not always about sex. I can tell you first and foremost, and it's - there's a lot you can learn from kink. Whether you're - whether you're kinky or not.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, for sure. And, and also, like what you said about, like people feeling uncomfortable, because they're like, "Pride is supposed to be a family friendly event." On the one hand, I'm like it is great to have multiple generations at an event like Pride. And obviously, from a super young age - like kids have, like queer families, like, like, I'm obviously all for like normalising that. But on the other hand, like this move towards, like, Pride being this family friendly corporate event and using that as a reason to be like, kink shouldn't be at pride, because it's not like brand safe enough or family safe enough - that I'm just suddenly like, ugh, no.
Amp Somers
Yeah. I'm all for again, like, part of this conversation was like, kids are queer, too. And I'm like, yes, absolutely. We should have more family friendly, friendly, specific parts of Prides. And they already exist in many cities. But it was, it was this advocating for queer kid friendly spaces that already existed. And for whatever reason, like that was a big deal this year. But at the same time, if we're allowing certain organisations that have been very LGBTQ-phobic over the last couple years with like tags and whatnot, that content was allowed on say, you know, a YouTube, but then we're allowing corporations like Google and YouTube to be the head runner of pride events, there's this disconnect for me. And I think that absolutely representation's important and all that, but we need to hold corporations accountable if they're going to be, you know, in our parades. It says something when you're allowing the large corporations that aren't actually giving enough money to their workers into the parade, but you're not allowing the queer community that's been there from the beginning, helped us get through HIV - and just because they're wearing like, a piece of leather, it's like, they're not allowed.
Hannah Witton
"Not appropriate." Yeah. Ugh.
Amp Somers
Also it started as a riot. It was - it wasn't appropriate, like.
Hannah Witton
Exactly! Yeah!
Amp Somers
So it's a whole conversation. But I find that when you when you break it down like that, and you actually talk about the importance and what kinky people or leather people are actually doing at these events, people usually back off and like, "Well, okay, but I just wanted queer, queer spaces for kids." And we're like, yeah, let's, let's have more of those. Those exist. More, please.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, exactly. Um, so speaking of events, somebody asked: would it be weird to go up to a puppy at a kink event and ask to pet them? Or is that rude?
Amp Somers
No, you are literally asking for consent. That is - that is totally nice and appropriate. And most puppies would probably please say yes.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, I think the rude thing would be to pet them without asking to pet them.
Amp Somers
Correct. Yes. Don't do that. Don't do that.
Hannah Witton
There we go. Don't do that. Don't touch people without their consent. Even if you think it's just an innocent pet.
Amp Somers
Because yes, exactly. We still have [inaudible]. You got to respect them.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, exactly. Somebody asked: how to manage mismatched kinks, or kinks that make the other person feel weird, with a life partner.
Amp Somers
Ooh, okay. Um, so we call that kink discordance. So people -
Hannah Witton
Ooh, love a good phrase for something.
Amp Somers
I didn't coin it. That was a Dan Savage word but I use it all the time. It's to - to express when two people that are probably both kinky in their own rights come together and they might share something - like myself or my Daddy share bondage. We both love bondage and tying people up but he is very much into the impact and the pain and like other very into like tit torture and nipple stuff which I'm not really - like my nipples are actually like no fly zones. Don't, don't touch those. They're - no.
Hannah Witton
Red tape.
Amp Somers
Yes. But we still - we still find our, you know, our Venn diagrams that make us happy together and then the other areas we explore with other people so that it's possible to do.
Hannah Witton
What about for a monogamous kinky couple?
Amp Somers
You know, I, I'm more of the monogamish camp. But I absolutely respect people that are monogamous. Like I've done it, it wasn't for me, but I understand why and where and how people enjoy that. It's tough to be in a monogamous relationship with mismatched kinks. But that does not mean you can't figure it out. You just have to be really good about communication. And you can still, you can still jerk off and masturbate to the stuff that you really, really like, but enjoy the stuff with your partner. I'm all about that.
Hannah Witton
And also, because we were saying about kink, not always being sexual. So having that conversation about like, what - what is it about this kink that appeals to you? And why do you want to do it? And maybe you don't have any other sexual or romantic partners, but you might have a play partner who you do a specific kink with, but there's nothing sexual about it. Like, it's about figuring out all of that kind of stuff, too.
Amp Somers
No, absolutely. Yeah, It's contextualised. And it's like - it's not talking about your kinks -if you're expressing something new, especially, it's not talking about in such a way that's like, "So I have, I have this thing, and I feel, and if you want to-" No. You have to be like, ""ey, I've got this really fun thing that like I love doing because it makes me feel this way. And I think it looks really sexy. And you know what, I think you would look really nice like that if you're open to trying it. And I really want you to be because I'm enthusiastically excited." Like, those are two different things.
Hannah Witton
Here's something that I want to share with you.
Amp Somers
Yeah, it's something you get to do. It's not something you have to do, you know. And that helps a lot with with how you contextualise it too.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, and I think like a phrase that comes up a lot in the sex positive community and then I also guess in the kink community as well is like, like, don't yuck somebody yum.
Amp Somers
Yeah.
Hannah Witton
In terms of like, making somebody feel weird about the things that they like, but on the flip side of that is also not yucking somebody else's yuck. Because there are also things that we just don't like, and I think you can also find yourself in certain circles - especially like in sex positivity gone wrong - where like, there's this pressure or expectation to be up for anything. And then if you like, don't like something it's just like, ooh, prude kind of attitude, but actually, like: don't yuck other people's yums but also don't yuck their yucks. Like if they like, I don't like that. Then they also like - don't judge them for that as well.
Amp Somers
Oh, totally. Like, I've got I've got my kinks that I'm like, ew, I can't, I can't. I can't. And for me, it's usually like a visceral like, ah, taking things into that area just sounds ahh, but I'm not gonna yuck someone that enjoys it because like, they are enjoying that thing on the same level I'm enjoying that bondage and we're both getting the same feels out of it. And if I'm not allowing someone else to feel that, like that's super hypocritical to then ask for like, "Hey, I'm doing bondage. Let me feel good about it." Yeah, you can't - no kink shaming here. No kink shaming.
Hannah Witton
No. And one of the things that always really fascinates me about sex is this like spectrum between like, like intense pleasure and arousal and then like, disgust at the other end. And like in different contexts, the exact same thing in a different context or to a different person can elicit like a "oh my god, so into it" versus like "I'm gonna throw up" like and it could be the exact same thing but it just like depending on the situation or the person - completely different response to it.
Hannah Witton
Oh but also at the same time I'm the same person and I could be like super hot and heavy in whatever I'm reading or watching or looking at and then I get off and I'm like, "Oh, I am disgusting." But like in like a second positive way, but I'm just like, "Oh my god." Have you ever felt that?
Hannah Witton
"Oh, I'm filthy."
Amp Somers
Yeah, yeah, like a "Wow, I am I am disgusting," but like, you feel sexy about it, you know?
Hannah Witton
Yeah. I mean, even in my little vanilla life I - like the - I'm a massive pervert basically. It's just a thing, and my partner likes to call me a deviant. And I love being called a deviant. Like any time I'm like, "Oh like let's do this" or if I'm just like being an absolute perv towards them he's just like "Oh my god, you're such a deviant," and I'm like, "Yes I am!"
Amp Somers
Well so I guess and I'm sure we'll talk about it more on our pod but how do you define your own - like are you - can you think yourself as kinky ever?
Hannah Witton
So I think because I've been exposed to some other people's like more extreme kinks then because I have that kind of reference point I don't consider myself kinky but I probably like would say - cuz I like dabble in bedroom kink, I would say. Like, some light bondage maybe but I don't care for it enough in the same way that like some people who are like really into rope are like, "Oh my god, like this kind of knot and this kind of rope," I'm like, "I don't care."
Amp Somers
Drag me, Hannah. Yes. Drag me.
Hannah Witton
No, but I love it because you're all such nerds.
Amp Somers
Don't get me started. The sex nerd overlap.
Hannah Witton
What's your favourite knot?
Amp Somers
What my favourite knot? The catspaw.
Hannah Witton
I don't know what that means but I'm gonna look it up.
Amp Somers
It is the easiest knot. And one of the most safe ones out there because it cinches nicely but doesn't like cinch badly. Check it out. It takes 10 seconds to tie.
Hannah Witton
Okay, there we go. There's your first bit of rope education, everybody. Okay, to finish this off, though, I wanted to ask: for somebody who is, like interested in kink, but doesn't have access to like a kink community and doesn't really know where to start with, like, how to start exploring their kinks and interest, like, what should they do? What's step one?
Amp Somers
Educate first. I mean, go on, go on the Google and an appropriate computer and just do some research. To find local kink stuff, you can use websites like FetLife, if there are Facebook groups, there's - or if there's someone on your Facebook that you know is kinky, like, talking to other people and finding groups in your area, because there's always tonnes of Facebook groups. But just find - find an educator that you that you like online and, and learn but look in different places. You know, like I started my education on Tumblr back in the day when that was still a thing. RIP Tumblr. But there's so many communities online, like Twitter, there's tonnes of puppies on Twitter, if you're looking for puppies. And there's tonnes of just good educational resources and probably local groups that do education in your area as well. You just unfortunately have to find them, which is - like takes a second.
Hannah Witton
And if you have any, like local sex toy shops, as well, sometimes they have BDSM classes and stuff on too so that might be worth checking out and seeing what the situation is there too.
Amp Somers
Yeah, and through those, again, through meeting people in person, you almost always are able to find those multiple groups that exist online, or where there's like some sort of like group text, but there's always things called munches, which are just like get togethers for kinky people. And there's always tonnes of classes, especially in our area, but San Francisco is very sex positive for that. So.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, I when I heard about munches, I was like, they sound like great fun. I want like equivalent of those.
Amp Somers
Have you ever been?
Hannah Witton
I've never been, no, cuz I'm not like in the kink community so I've never been to a munch.
Amp Somers
You don't have to be part of the community to go to a munch. Honestly, number of times like -
Hannah Witton
Maybe - maybe I'll ask some of my friends who like "Okay, next time you have a munch, can I -"
Amp Somers
Always go with someone. Always - that that's like pointer number one for a munch is like, take someone with you that you can literally be like, "Safe word!" and then they know that you need to get out of there if it's like uncomfortable, or if you just need some like emotional like friend support. Like that's the best way to do it.
Hannah Witton
I love that. Well, Amp, thank you so much for chatting with me all about kink and where can people find you online? And what's your podcast? Because we're going to do an episode for your podcast too!
Amp Somers
We are, I'm so excited. So if you're looking for good good kinky stuff, my name is Amp or Pup Amp. You can find me everywhere at Pup Amp, just PUP AMP. But you can find our show Watt's the Safe Word on YouTube, on the podcasts, on Twitch. We're pretty much everywhere at Watt's the Safe Word as well.
Hannah Witton
Which is W A T T S?
Amp Somers
Although we've trained Google at this point. If you type what "what" the safe word, you'll still find us. We've trained them real well.
Hannah Witton
Love that. Love that.
Amp Somers
Thank you so much for having me on, Hannah, and I can't wait to get down to some more kinky talk on the next show.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, I'm excited. Yeah, and thank you all so much for listening. Bye. Thank you so much for listening to Doing It. If you enjoyed it, I would really appreciate If you left a rating and a review, you can find shownotes at doingitpodcast.co.uk and do go follow us on social media and I'll catch you in the next episode. Bye