Being Trans and Polyamorous with Kat Blaque | Transcript
Find the episode shownotes here!
Hannah Witton
A friend of mine is a unicorn, and she was sending me screenshots of dating bios, and there would either be the unicorn emoji, to like signify that they are the unicorn, or being like looking for. And I was like, oh my god, this completely passed me by, I have no idea.
Hannah Witton
Welcome to Doing It with me, Hannah Witton, where we talk all things sex, relationships, dating, and our bodies. Why hello there, dear listener. Welcome back. So this is another episode from my LA recordings, and it is with Kat Blaque, who is an amazing YouTuber. She makes a lot of social commentary videos and stuff about politics. She has this brilliant series called True Tea, where she shares her opinions and personal stories, such as her experiences with sexual assault, and more recently, talking very openly about polyamory and being a trans Black woman.
Hannah Witton
In this episode, I visited Kat at her home in LA and we talked about everything from her coming out experience at college and online, the politics of passing as a trans person, and how she found the polyamorous community. I hope you enjoy this episode.
Hannah Witton
Hey, thanks so much Kat for having me in your flat or apartment.
Kat Blaque
Thank you for coming.
Hannah Witton
So I just think that the listeners will get so much from hearing your story and your experience. Tell us a little bit about yourself, and like who you are.
Kat Blaque
Oh my god, it's such an existential question. Who am I? Well my name is Katherine, I'm 28 years old, I live in Los Angeles, and I've been a YouTuber since I was 15 years old.
Hannah Witton
Wow.
Kat Blaque
Yeah, I've been on basically Youtube since it started.
Hannah Witton
Are those videos still public?
Kat Blaque
I mean, they are if you know where to look.
Hannah Witton
Oh, they're on different channels?
Kat Blaque
Yeah, I recently for one of my videos, went back and added like old footage of me and I - you can still find old 2005/2006 videos of me if you know where to look. Um, but yeah, I've started since then. So I started in high school. And YouTube has been a really important part of my life. I've recorded most of my journeys throughout my different adventures; the art world, and love, and you know, my life as a trans person, and you know, my passionate - my passion for social justice and for feminism. And now I just kind of create content that is all sort of centred on learning, sharing, and growing through education and conversation. And I have a channel, I have a thing on my channel called True Tea, that's basically me talking about my personal experiences.
Hannah Witton
Yeah. Which I love.
Kat Blaque
Yeah? Thank you. Yeah, it was recently rebranded from something that was more political, to something was more personal, because I think that's kind of more of what we need right now. So yeah, that's me I guess.
Hannah Witton
So, like, the human elements of it.
Kat Blaque
Yeah.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, cuz I think I found your channel when it was very much like, let's break down this topic and this issue, and it was great for like, education, but it wasn't like about you. Obviously it was showing your opinions and your, like, your political stance on things, but not necessarily like your personal experiences. And now you've gone like, hey, I'm going to share.
Kat Blaque
Yeah.
Hannah Witton
All of this with you. I didn't realise you started YouTube so young. Did you, was your, like, transition documented on YouTube?
Kat Blaque
It was, yeah. I definitely, so my initial videos on YouTube were about me trying to go to Cal Arts, which was like the college of my dream for character animation. And after I went to Cal Arts, that's when I really started to have an understanding of who I was. When I was in high school, I very much was someone who identified as genderqueer, which I guess is sort of similar to non binary in the way that we talk about it now, but not quite, it's a little bit different. A lot different, honestly. And going into a new environment, like a lot of people, you kind of get the realisation that you have no obligation to be the person who you said you were the day before. And so that helped me kind of really understand that, you know, I was just kind of a boring binary trans woman, and so I, you know, I started like -
Hannah Witton
I tried so hard to be genderqueer, turns out I'm just a woman.
Kat Blaque
Yeah, I mean that really was it because I realised that, at least for me, and this is just my story, it's not everybody's story. But for me, a lot of my sort of existing in between genders thing was me trying to hold on to this language around who people already knew me as, while also still exploring who I knew myself to be. And you know, I didn't really, I didn't really feel the way that people had wanted me to be, or had gotten used to me being, and so that's when I kind of recognised I was very, very binary. Um, and so yeah, that kind of introduced a whole new journey of complications because I wanted to transition before I graduated, that was like my goal. I wanted to be a effectively finished with my transition before I got out of college.
Hannah Witton
What did that mean to you, to be like finished?
Kat Blaque
Well, I think being done with your transition, in quotations, means something different to everyone. For me, it ultimately just meant getting to a place of contentment within myself. And for me, that meant changing my name and my gender marker, and not really ever having to have the conversation again. I think that's the thing that some people don't often get when it comes to the trans conversation., because a lot of people hear things now about trans people and being openly trans and things like that. But when I was coming up, the goal of most trans people was to be what we call stealth, which was basically -
Hannah Witton
Passing.
Kat Blaque
Passing and living in a way where the people around you do not know that you're transgender. Like that was the ultimate goal, the ultimate plan, and that was ultimately my goal and my plan.
Hannah Witton
How do you feel about that now?
Kat Blaque
Well, I feel it's it's complex. I mean, a lot of people don't understand that passing really comes from a desire to survive, you know.
Hannah Witton
Sure.
Kat Blaque
And historically, trans people have passed and have been stealth, because that's just the way that they've been able to succeed in society. I mean, we, we see how trans people are treated, and how they're ostracised in society, and if you can afford to fade away into the background, if you can afford to be seen as not a trans person, most trans people will opt to do that just as a means of survival. I mean, when I was younger, I would run away from my home, and I would come down to Hollywood, and I would try to apply for jobs. And I looked basically how I look today, but I would write down my legal name, and my legal gender. And I had so many times where I would hand in my application, and I would hear laughter as I would leave because they weren't used to seeing a trans person. And so for me, I really was solid in that, that goal because I didn't want to be ostracised. And so today I very much understand, um, you know why stealth is important to so many people. I have a friend right now who is a teacher, she's an elementary teacher, and she is stealth, and the people that work with her don't know that she's trans, the students don't know that she's trans, and that's her life. And she's happy, and she's got a husband, And that's, that's how a lot of trans people were living.
Hannah Witton
And also, like, the first thing that came to my head was like, actually, if the students knew, then the parents would know, and you just don't know what kind of reaction that would be, and if that would put her job in danger, and -
Kat Blaque
Yeah, it's like it's, it's a it's a decision most people make out of just wanting to be able to just live and be successful. I mean, for me a lot of my feelings around that changed when I got into the animation industry. And I realised, okay, well, I went to one of the best animation colleges in the country, people are going to remember who I was, and it's not necessarily the most reasonable for me to think I'm going to be in the animation industry and people aren't going to know that I'm trans. And then that kind of got further, and then I understood well, it doesn't really matter because art is one of those fields where it's not really as important, like who you are to some people is very important, but a lot of times it's just more about what you can do. Can you do the work? And if you can do the work, you have the job, if you can't do the work, you don't have the job, you know, and that's just kind of how it is. And so that that was a thing that really helped me sort of understand it, that being out wasn't a big deal. And one of the big reasons why I'm out now is I had so many - like my fear forever was everybody knowing. Like it was to the point where I was paranoid, like I sabotaged my YouTube channel for a very very long time because I hated the idea of somebody like looking me up and knowing that I was trans like -
Hannah Witton
Did you create an entirely new YouTube channel then?
Kat Blaque
Yeah, I have several, I have had several YouTube channels over the years.
Hannah Witton
Okay, so if someone like found your channel either during or after your transition they, you never talked about your transition online, it just happened.
Kat Blaque
Yeah. Well, so, as long as I've been on YouTube, I've been trans in some way, shape or form. I started my transition when I was 16, and even then, I was using alternative names, I was not using my any of my legal name.
Hannah Witton
Okay.
Kat Blaque
Like if you find like my, I don't even know if I should say this, but if you find like my old, I won't say the exact wording because I don't want people to find it -
Hannah Witton
Yeah, no.
Kat Blaque
But um, if you like, my old my old YouTube channel, like it has the heading of like, crunchy queer teen, or crunchy granola teen, or some shit like just something that like I would say back then because that's just who I was. I was just this very outspoken, you know, like, genderqueer person. Um, and Kat Blaque, as my name, you know, I had so many other names. Like before it was Kat Blaque, it was Kitty Cadavers, you know, throwback to MySpace days. It was always kind of about me not quite having my actual name out there. And I really enjoyed, you know, that when you looked up my legal name, Katherine Wilkins, you had pictures of smiling white women, and like my artwork like that. That was like the perfect google image result. I love that like, you wouldn't look up my legal name and find Katherine Wilkins, transgender. And for me, I had a bunch of different experiences, there was really scary experience with a person who was harassing me, who created this really scary website that had a lot of personal information on it that you know, was kind of designed to make me feel afraid -
Hannah Witton
Were they like using that information, or just publicising it?
Kat Blaque
So somebody had been following me for a very, very long time, and had known about my sort of fear of having all of that sort of information consolidated into one space.
Hannah Witton
Did they know that because you like knew them personally?
Kat Blaque
Well, I mean, it's a bit of a longer story. I had, I had a person who came on to one of my web shows, I used to have an old web show, and they had pretended to be a trans man for months, like, knew enough to seem like they were a transgender man. And they collecting all this information from not just me, but other panellists, and they had constructed this website that, you know, listed my address, and like places I used to work, and my dead name, and this this sort of small little writing about my sexual violence experience. Um, you know, a lot of really shitty things that he knew would get to me. And for me, that was like the, oh my gosh, this is the worst thing that could ever happen, you know. But you know, even though I never want anyone to go through what I went through, in many ways I'm thankful that I had that experience because it was truly the realisation of, this is as scary as it's probably going to get for me, and is that so bad? You know, because at the end of the day, I realised that stuff like that is designed to make us silent, and to keep us quiet, and to keep us hidden. And I know for me, as a trans kid, it was really hard for me to close my eyes and imagine what my future would be like. It was really hard for me to envision what being a trans person over the age of 19 or 20 would be.
Hannah Witton
Right, because you didn't have any examples after that?
Kat Blaque
Yeah, there was no, I mean the most, the closest as we got to examples of trans people were my - you know, Jerry Springer, you would see all these people on Jerry Springer and -
Hannah Witton
But like the people on Jerry Springer are there to kind of be laughed at.
Kat Blaque
Yeah, they're - they would be laughed at, and like, oh my god, freaks. And it's so interesting because like some of the people on Jerry Springer were very sort of successful sex workers. And you know, even though they were on there, being made fun of, they also existed in this way where they're being hyper desired. And that was something that people weren't really talking about, they were just this freak show that people were laughing at it, oh my gosh, this, you know, man in a wig, and this man who misled a straight man to his doom, you know. And it's, that was what transgender people were like, and I knew, from my own experience, and from the experience that I had, you know, socialising and sometimes even fostering spaces for trans people to come together, that that wasn't who we were.
Kat Blaque
And so for me, even though, like I very much have, like, you'll never really see me self described myself as a transgender blogger, because I'm a trans person who talks about stuff, you know. Even though I have no problems being openly trans now, I don't think it's the thing that ultimately like defines all of who I am, it defines certain aspects of myself, but not everything, you know. Um, but you know, I exist just to sort of be on this platform, for a lot of people to know that it's possible to be a trans adult. That's kind of why I stay on here, because I still, to this day, don't really see many people like me, so. And I think it's important that people like me take up space on, you know, in new media and sort of make, you know, representation for, not only themselves, but for the other people who don't think that it's possible to be like me
Hannah Witton
Yeah, do you have a lot of like, young, queer people who follow you?
Kat Blaque
I do, I do. You know, it's funny, like so one of the big things that outed me was I did this video with a little startup called BuzzFeed. A little humble startup. I thought, you know, because I was, at the time, I was really wanting to work at BuzzFeed, I want to work in one of those companies.
Hannah Witton
Yeah.
Kat Blaque
They were talking to me about a residency and um, you know, I, they wanted me to do this video, they found my channel, and they want me to come in and do this pronoun video. And I was really nervous because back then I was at that weird in between where I was known in this very small circle of, you know, people who cared about transgender content, but not known widely in the YouTube audience.
Hannah Witton
What were you making videos about?
Kat Blaque
At that time, it was a lot of me. Like, I was living with my parents, I was sleeping on my parents couch, was a lot of my just, you know, normal vlogs. Like turning on my camera being like, hey, you know, like, this fucking sucks. But I was making videos long enough for people to know about who I was, to for, you know, plus BuzzFeed to know about me like, yeah, it's like one of those things where trans people who really cared about this stuff, knew who I was, because I was making content, but most people didn't know. And it's actually fairly common for trans people to create these channels, and then like, delete them, and like go off into their lives, but I was one of the few people have stayed. So I did a video with BuzzFeed, and it was about pronouns and I thought no one was going to watch it. But of course, it got millions of views, and, you know, there were people that had known me for years who had no idea that I was trans, and I start getting all these emails and all these messages from people. In that video I, at a time, I was with a partner, and his family didn't know that I was trans, and that led to a lot of stuff.
Hannah Witton
What kinds of things were people, people who you knew but didn't know you're trans, what kind of things were they saying?
Kat Blaque
Well, I mean, it was it was a combination of things. Like, there were people who were, there are some people who were just upset, you know, that, like, I didn't tell them, or I felt like I couldn't tell them. There's some men who, like had an interest in me who I didn't quite have an interest in, but they had an interest in me who were kind of upset that I didn't tell them. Then there were people who are -
Hannah Witton
Upset because they're like, oh, like, I don't know, sharing stuff makes you feel like intimate with someone, or like that sense of deception, which obviously comes into a lot of -
Kat Blaque
Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of people who feel like if you don't tell someone right away, you're deceiving them, you know, and my sort of standard for telling people that I'm trans is, can we have a conversation? Do I even like you? You know, am I even interested in sleeping with you? And if I, if those things are on check, check, check, it's like, okay, that we have the conversation. But so infrequently, is a man able to talk to me in a way that will ever inspire me to have those feelings. So I don't often just tell everybody that -
Hannah Witton
Yeah.
Kat Blaque
And to me, in so many ways, it's just not important. But there's some people who feel very entitled to that information. And to some degree, I understand that, but, you know, in so many other ways I don't, because it's not really their business for the most part. And so, honestly, I didn't really like those messages. I got a really weird one from, I worked on this book, and one of the co-authors of the book, you know, sent me this long, sort of, I'm such an ally message that, you know, he was celebrating, he was happy about the video because he has all these drag queen friends and it's like, I'm not a drag queen. Yeah, it was one of those weird things where he was trying to be very supportive, but it wasn't being supportive, in a way, because he was not getting it still. But you know, pick your battles. I didn't yell at him, I just said thank you and kept moving. Um, but yeah, I mean, people just feel weird sometimes when you don't tell them those things. And you know, to me, it's been very case to case, I don't tell everybody, and also my life is very different now. I have a YouTube channel, it says Katherine Wilkins, Kat Blaque. You find my Wikipedia page that says I'm transgender. And it's not that I think everyone should know who I am, definitely not, but it's definitely not a secret. It's also just not the most important thing for me to talk about today.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, no, that's fair. And like now you make a lot of videos also about, like your dating life and polyamory. So like, because before that you were in a long term, monogamous relationship.
Kat Blaque
Yeah.
Hannah Witton
So, what happened?
Kat Blaque
Well, I mean, a lot of things happen. Um, so when I was in college, my friend gave me this book called The Ethical Slut.
Hannah Witton
I still haven't read that. That is like, I've heard about this book for years, and it's like one of those ones I'm just like, I'll get around to it, I'll get around.
Kat Blaque
It's pretty good. To some people, it's a little outdated. But when someone handed me a book that said slut on it, I was raised very Christian, and I was like, why are you calling me a slut? You know, how dare you call me that because I, you know, he had seen me going all these dates cuz I was like, a hardcore serial dater. Like I had the OkCupid page because I was hungry kind of thing. I was such a monster when I was in college. Like it was really bad. And he just was like, I think you might feel like this book. And of course, I was offended and I never read it.
Hannah Witton
Did you keep it, though?
Kat Blaque
I did keep it until I moved back in with my parents, my parents found it, and my dad's way Christian, and so that didn't go over well.
Hannah Witton
Have you read it now, then?
Kat Blaque
I, you know, I've started to read it. Um, I actually have the new updated version of the book.
Hannah Witton
Okay.
Kat Blaque
And so I started to read it. Although most people, when it comes to polyamory, prefer a book called More Than Two.
Hannah Witton
Oh, I've not heard of that one.
Kat Blaque
Yeah.
Hannah Witton
Who's that by?
Kat Blaque
Ah, God, I don't, it's on my bookshelf, but I don't know.
Hannah Witton
More Than Two.
Kat Blaque
More Than Two. And it has, I know that Janet Hardy wrote Ethical Slut, and there's a foreword in More Than Two by Janet Hardy. But More Than Two has been really great. It's just all this stuff that you know, poly people go through, and different, you know, ways that people are poly. I mean, it's hard. Like my personal journey into polyamory was a lot of people telling me that I was polyamorous, me really denying it, and then, you know, when I was, my ex, I was in a very different place in life. I was living with my parents, I was very introverted, I was not very social, and what I wanted more than anything in life was, you know, validation through a monogamous relationship. You know, I want it to feel that, you know, I was valid, and whole, in a monogamous relationship. Like, that's the only sort of thing I wanted.
Hannah Witton
And also like, we're all taught that that is how you feel those things.
Kat Blaque
That is the standard way of living, and dating, and how relationships work. And if you don't have that sort of dynamic, there's something wrong with you.
Hannah Witton
Yeah.
Kat Blaque
And you know, in my sort of dating history, I'd had a lot of experiences with men who didn't want to be monogamous with me, with men who only saw me as a sexual object, or only wanted me to be, you know, someone who was with them for a season. And so, you know, it's funny because when I met my ex I was, you know, that whole, you know, it'll come to you when you least expect it, sort of thing. I very much was like, I just turned 21, I was just finding any guy who would take me out to any bar, you know, I was really just not even trying to get into a relationship at all. And then I met him, and he was a total sweetheart. And he, you know, was everything I wanted in a man, you know. He was willing to introduce me to his family, he was willing to introduce me to friends, her was like the first man I'd met who truly was not ashamed of me. And when you deal with men who are ashamed of you, you oftentimes end up in these situations where it's hard for you to even feel, you know, love of yourself. And -
Hannah Witton
Because it has to come from elsewhere.
Kat Blaque
You feel that way, because you get these messages that you're not worthy, you know, that's how you start to feel. And so when I started dating him, it was very much a thing where he made me feel really loved. And I was, I've never been super close to my family, and living back with my parents was definitely very toxic. And when I met him, it was this man who was everything I ever wanted, and was eager to take me out of that situation. And so we moved in with each other, and we were together for five years. And through those five years, I changed. I became way more confident in my YouTube platform, and I started to really love doing what I was doing. I also, through that, became confident in a way that I really wasn't before. I started travelling the country, and I was going, you know, to all different types of places, meaning all different types of people.
Hannah Witton
And did that put like a strain on your relationship?
Kat Blaque
Oh, absolutely. I mean, there was already a lot of strain. He was a chef, he would come home at midnight every night, he would always had really weird hours, and I was an insomniac. And you know, so it just sometimes it would work, and sometimes it wouldn't, and we just kept missing each other. And when I started travelling, that's kind of when I started to think about, you know, cuz when I first started dating him, I definitely was very insecure. And I had all these like, weird paranoia about him cheating on me, and he definitely wasn't, he was such a faithful person. But you know, as I got towards the end of it, I thought, you know, if I'm away, and he finds somebody that makes them happy, or he's spending time with someone that makes them happy, that wouldn't really bother me, really. And that was a thought that I didn't think I would ever have.
Hannah Witton
But not necessarily because you weren't in love with him anymore, but like, but because you're poly.
Kat Blaque
Yeah, well, because it became really clear to me that there were things that he wanted, that I wasn't giving to him, you know. Like when he would come home, and I was still working on a video, he would get frustrated with me because he wanted to come home and sometimes spend time with me. And, you know, with just the nature of the way I was making videos back then, because back then I was also I was very sucked into the internet so much, and probably a very unhealthy way to have a lot of friends. And so like, that was my social life. And so I was making a lot of content, I was very focused, and unfortunately, I was rewarded, you know, I mean, I only got my YouTube channel, it became more and more successful as I was working in that way, just being so sucked in. And he wanted to connect with me, and I didn't always have the time. And then he would want to do these events and these things that I, you know, didn't have the time to do. I was working, I was focusing, I was doing this other thing, and so that's why I started thinking, well, if he had a person he was going out with to do all those things, like it wouldn't bother me, you know, because I still love him.
Hannah Witton
And that's one of the things that I hear from a lot of poly people, where it is about like, oh, well you know, I'm get this thing from this partner, and I could get this thing from this kind of relationship. And and but even within like monogamous relationships, I'm like, your partner shouldn't be like your everything.
Kat Blaque
Yeah, very true. I mean, and then a lot of my polyamory really kind of comes from, because what happened, of course is, and I think he probably felt this way too, but went in a different direction. Like I started to resent him for not being certain things.
Hannah Witton
Right.
Kat Blaque
Because I had all this list of things I expected out of a partner, and he wasn't those things. And you know, towards the end, and after the relationship, when I really thought about stuff, I realised like, he's not a bad person because he's not all of these, this long list of stuff that I want, he's not like a bad person. But because I was expecting all those things about him, I resented him in a way that wasn't truly fair to him. And that kind of understanding, that this one person can't really be my everything, really opened me up, way more, more and more to polyamory. Because, you know, I don't think it's healthy to expect one person to be your end all be all.
Hannah Witton
So what's that been like for you now? Like dating in LA?
Kat Blaque
Well, dating in LA, it's so interesting because, I mean, I go on a lot of dates, I'm still a bit of a serial dater. I have opened and closed my dating profiles over and over and over again.
Hannah Witton
I know that feeling.
Kat Blaque
Yeah, I mean, so like right now I have two partners. I have one partner who lives where I used to live in Orange County, and one partner who lives in Portland. I see my partner who lives out here maybe every other week. And I see my partner who lives in Portland whenever I can get out to Portland, or he can come out here.
Hannah Witton
How often are you like talking online, or like texting, or calling?
Kat Blaque
So I talk to my Portland partner pretty much every day. I talk to my partner out here, you know, not that often, maybe every other day, but it's one of those things where we know that we get along, we like each other, we're connected in that way. And I'm not the best at texting and that whole thing, I'm more about let's spend quality time.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, and it's all about, like, whether you're poly or monogamous, like managing expectations.
Kat Blaque
Yeah, absolutely.
Hannah Witton
And like, okay, like you said, like, letting them know that you're not a good texter.
Kat Blaque
Yeah. And I have to tell people that because like I I'm not, I'm not, that's not how I communicate. It's complicated. I mean, a lot of people that I date are, my friends call it, in the clubhouse. You know, like, we have these polyamory get togethers, and it's like, it's probably the best to date people from actual physical polyamorous spaces, not that you're going to avoid all of the issues, but you probably will avoid most of it. Like I found that when I met a lot of men who said they're polyamorous on dating sites, not that they weren't open to polyamory, but they were the kind of people who when they found the right person would be monogamous, and that's not who I am at all. That's just definitely not who I am. Like I see monogamy as kind of threatening, honestly. Um, and so I definitely like to date people who very much know that they're polyamorous, and don't necessarily -
Hannah Witton
And that is like a permanent part of their identity.
Kat Blaque
Yeah, which for a lot, most people, I think, are figuring it out how much they are or aren't polyamorous.
Hannah Witton
Because there are different kinds of it as well.
Kat Blaque
Yeah.
Hannah Witton
Would you say someone who like has a primary partner, and it's like an open relationship, is that a form of polyamory?
Kat Blaque
So I have complex views on that sort of thing. So I will never see any sort of even kind of monogamy as like desirable. I think people who are in quote, open relationships, do to some degree admire at least romantic monogamy, but are open to maybe more sexual like open, non ethical, non monogamy things, which is fine, but it's not who I am.
Hannah Witton
Yeah.
Kat Blaque
And personally, it's hard for me to want to date somebody or, well, first of all, most people aren't looking to date. People who are in open relationships, very commonly are just looking for someone to have a good time with.
Hannah Witton
Hook ups and stuff.
Kat Blaque
Hook up, you know, and I don't judge those people, but I am not the sort of person who really gets off on that. I don't really enjoy that. And there's another layer to that too, where a lot of open relations, people in open relationships do couples like it's like a lot of people who don't really do stuff, unless it's with another person. And I am not a unicorn unfortunately.
Hannah Witton
I only recently learned what unicorn means.
Kat Blaque
Really?
Hannah Witton
So for people who don't know, what is a unicorn?
Kat Blaque
A unicorn is a, usually woman but not always, who is bisexual, and open to being with both the husband and the wife.
Hannah Witton
Yeah.
Kat Blaque
In the poly community, it's pretty common for people to be looking for that. I mean, a lot of people in poly spaces come into it with a marriage, you know, or with a partnership, and a lot of the ways that couples first explore non monogamy is by adding another person, and maybe dating that person together, or having sex with that person together. And I think that's all great and fun. And I mean, my partner out here, we kind of are open to doing that, but that's but that's not really who we are, and we're not an open relationship in that way. We have our own partners, we have our own connections, like and it's not really about we're so protected in our relationship that it's about, what we're doing with you is about reinforcing us, it's not really that's not really what it is. But that's kind of what it is for a lot of couples who are in open relationships
Hannah Witton
A friend of mine is a unicorn, and she was the one who I learned that term from, and she was like sending me screenshots of like, like dating buyers that she would come across and it would either be like the unicorn emoji to like signify that they are the unicorn, or being like looking for and then the little unicorn emoji. And I was like, oh my god, this completely passed me by, I have no idea
Kat Blaque
Yeah, I would always put, in like in all caps, not a unicorn, unicorn emoji. It was on all my profiles because it's so, it's so prevalent. Like I can't go on any website and say that I'm polyamorous, without getting the -
Hannah Witton
Like, I'm not coming to have a threesome with you and your partner.
Kat Blaque
Not gonna happen. I'm very flattered, you know, I mean but sometimes it sucks because, like I went to a poly meetup recently where I was talking to this guy, and he was there with his wife and personally, with me, when it comes to dealing with married men, I really do like to know that their wife is like aware, and involved, because it's just I've dealt with way too many people who aren't really communicating with their wives, like, there's a lot of that -
Hannah Witton
So you wouldn't be interested in like dating a couple.
Kat Blaque
No.
Hannah Witton
Just more like just dating one person, and then dating another single person -
Kat Blaque
Yeah. I mean, I can be friends with the the female part of the couple. I can totally be friends with that, but I'm not, I don't want to date her, you know.
Hannah Witton
Yeah.
Kat Blaque
Um, I often describe myself as tragically heterosexual because I'm in so many situations where women are interested in me, or I'm interested in the guy, and then he has a wife who is interested in me as well. And I want to date the guy, but they're a couple, and they only come as a pair kind of thing. But I'm just really not, I just can't I can't do it. It's not my thing. And that ends up like ending a lot of connections. And sometimes couples do this, where you'll connect with the guy and then, from the back door, they'll be like, oh, well, by the way -
Hannah Witton
I have a girlfriend.
Kat Blaque
I have a girlfriend, we only do things together. And then it's very much like, oh, well, if you like me, you should be open to hanging out with, you know, my wife. And I'm just like, oh, no, no, it's not not my thing, you know. But you know, it's interesting because because bi women in one way are celebrated in a very superficial way in the poly community, but are also erased a lot, because there's still a lot of people who are looking for a woman to be bisexual, but then like, don't take a relationship seriously, if the woman tries to date another woman.
Hannah Witton
Sure, it's like, you just need to take this bisexual box. We don't really care like about anything else, you just need to fancy us both.
Kat Blaque
Yeah, exactly. Like, and there's a lot of people who they're comfortable with their wives, you know, dating other women, but they don't take those relationships very seriously. I -
Hannah Witton
I see a lot of that.
Kat Blaque
Yeah.
Hannah Witton
That, I mean, I'm not I'm not bi, but I don't know, I'm just like, I really struggle with that -
Kat Blaque
Yeah, it's rough. I mean, it's I mean, that's, that's really uncomfortable for me to observe when -
Hannah Witton
Yeah.
Kat Blaque
When you know that like, and -
Hannah Witton
I'm like, why didn't you take that seriously?
Kat Blaque
Yeah, it's still a serious relationship, you know.
Hannah Witton
I'm like, your girlfriend's bisexual. So like, those feelings, like have the potential to be the same as her feelings for you. So why aren't you taking that seriously, but I don't know. It's someone else's relationship.
Kat Blaque
Yeah, I'm so thankful to be exploring my polyamory not in a relationship.
Hannah Witton
Okay.
Kat Blaque
I mean, I would have loved to have had that conversation with my ex, but that would have like, never happened, it would've never gone well, and it would have never, you know, he would have never gotten it. You know, I think that's something that unfortunately, a lot of polyamorous people go through, where you're with somebody, you love them, you start the relationship monogamously, but you realise you're not monogamous. And then now you have to sort of have that conversation, and give them the opportunity to go off and be who they want to be, if they want to - if they want a monogamous relationship.
Hannah Witton
Do you think a relationship could ever work with someone who is monogamous and someone who is polyamorous?
Kat Blaque
Um, I think it's possible. I haven't seen it very frequently. I do definitely think that it can work. It's funny because what I've observed of the polyamorous community, there's a lot of people who have a season of polyamory in their relationship, you know. Like, they definitely explore it, they go through it, and they try it, but then ultimately kind of out realise, oh, you know what, this isn't for us, or this is ruining our marriage. Like, I'm dating a guy right now who just started dating, and he's married. And he's dating this other woman who, by all accounts, is just like, bonkers, like, and really, really intense. And like, everyone is like, stay away from this girl. And I'm watching his marriage get ruined, because he's just so enamoured with this girl who's like super, super intense. And I can already sort of sense that the conclusion of that's going to be, you know what, this poly shit, it's too much for us, it's way too intense, we need to re ettle, you know, and focus on each other. And that's kind of where a lot of couples end up being. You know, it's not impossible for a monogamous person to date a person who's polyamorous, and have that be something that ends up being good, but it just doesn't, in my observation, it just really doesn't happen often. It just, it's not a common thing.
Kat Blaque
And that's unfortunate, because you know, a lot of people, you'll meet people who are great, who are monogamous, and you would love to be able to have something with them. But at the end of the day, I think that if you know that you're poly and you know the person you're with is monogamous, because in my opinion, if you're someone who is monogamous, you're ultimately always going to see monogamy as the ideal, you're ultimately always going to see that sort of relationship as the type of relationship that you want. And what I've observed is, over time, people resent, very deeply, their poly partner.
Hannah Witton
Because they're not getting that from them.
Kat Blaque
And then there's a there's a very real issue of when you're poly you're spending so much time with another person. You know, you're going out on all these dates.
Hannah Witton
Because that's one of the things that like, it definitely occurs to me and I know a lot of people ask it like, where did you find the time?
Kat Blaque
Yeah.
Hannah Witton
Like, where is the time to like have all of these partners?
Kat Blaque
Yeah, I think it really works when two people are polyamorous and have a similar number of partners, and plans, and things like that.
Hannah Witton
One of my friends says the like him and his partners and then like also with their partners, it's like shared calendars.
Kat Blaque
Yeah.
Hannah Witton
And I was like, whoa, yeah, fair enough.
Kat Blaque
That's a very real thing. People do like give access to the Google Calendar just so people know what's going on, and when they can schedule things. In fact, that's like a very intimate, real thing, that a lot of people I know do, of like, here's my calendar so that you know what I'm doing and when we can hang out, you know. It's funny but it's like I mean, I literally -
Hannah Witton
I love that. I am trying to get my monogamous partner to share his calendar with me, but he just doesn't use a frickin calendar, and I'm just like, come on, this will be so helpful.
Kat Blaque
Yeah, like I had, like that calendar over there. I had to literally buy a physical calendar because I kept double booking people, like at a certain point, you have to like just write it down.
Hannah Witton
Got to write it, you know, you can't trust your brain to remember this stuff. I wanted to ask, because you mentioned about like, real life poly meetups -
Kat Blaque
Yeah.
Hannah Witton
So someone who is maybe just discovering that they might be polyamorous, and they want to explore that, how do they find other real life poly people? If they've - if they don't actually already know any.
Kat Blaque
That's actually pretty complicated. Like LA is really interesting where I mean, I guess it's like most big cities, where like if you know somebody, you knowsomeone, you know someone, and you know someone who knows the Facebook group they can add you to. Layers upon layers on layers, and layers, you know. Um, I think I might have found my initial poly - I started going to these things, so I'm also part of the BDSM community, and I start going to -
Hannah Witton
Is there an overlap, do you think?
Kat Blaque
There definitely is. There's not, it's not, I learned pretty early on that like there's they don't always intersect, but they often do. Lots of people who are poly are also BDSM. But it's not always the other way around. So I think I found out about the poly meetups I go to through BDSM lunches, which are these very nice, like these very, no pressure, let's all just go to the same bar at the same time and have conversations kind of thing. You know, and it's a really great entry level, if you're not, if you're not used to being in that sort of situation. It's a really great, like, here's -
Hannah Witton
Dipping your toes in.
Kat Blaque
Yeah, no pressure. And I think that's where I found that, and then through that I found like other groups, you know. At my house, I actually sometimes will host these big socials for polyamory people out here. And there, there's actually been a couple times where I've hosted like potlucks and things. Like you just when you know people, you start to know, the little, the little teeny tiny poly get togethers -
Hannah Witton
Yeah, and you might like find one group, and maybe that isn't the group for you. But yeah, through some of the people there, you'll learn about others.
Kat Blaque
Yeah. And it's always, it's not always for everyone. Like the poly meetup that I really enjoy, like, I'm an extrovert, I get a lot of energy from going out and socialising. I'm just a bit of an energy vampire in that way. And I love the poly meetup that I go to, but some people think it's like very aggressive, and it's not, you know, it's a little too much. So it's, you know, there are very low key, chill, sort of poly things, and then there's also like, very intense, you know -
Hannah Witton
Sex parties.
Kat Blaque
I mean, yeah, that's a part of it. But not, I mean, a lot of the sex party thing like, because the poly community definitely also has an intersection with the swinger community.
Hannah Witton
Of course.
Kat Blaque
But that's not always the case. I think it's more often not the case.
Hannah Witton
Like if you were a swinger is that like an open relationship, or is a swinger like an entirely different like identity?
Kat Blaque
I think that they can intersect. I mean, a lot of swingers are kind of basically in an open relationship. You know, it's kind of that like, come screw my wife, sort of thing.
Hannah Witton
Wife swap.
Kat Blaque
Yeah. Which is, I think, is a very, very different thing, because a lot of poly like, so polyamorous people generally believe that they can have several meaningful relationships with more than one person.
Hannah Witton
Yeah.
Kat Blaque
You know, so they believe, for example, they can have two girlfriends or, you know, and those people can have their other partners, and like that those can all be meaningful, important relationships. A lot of people who are in the swinger community don't really have relationships with each other. They're more like friends, who occasionally swap wives, kind of thing. And sometimes that's poly, sometimes it's not, you know. I know a lot of people who are in both communities. And I definitely find that swinger community is more of an open relationship kind of situation, because a lot of people are just there for the fun and sexiness. They're not really there for building a relationship with another person kind of thing. I mean, sometimes it does end up going that way. Because if you go to the same parties, you see the same people, that might be a -
Hannah Witton
You get a connection going.
Kat Blaque
Yeah, and that might be the were the area where you end up you know, having that common ground. But, you know, there's, like most things, there's intersections, but they don't always influence each other.
Hannah Witton
Yeah. Well, thank you so much for sharing your experiences and your knowledge with us. It's been great.
Kat Blaque
Thank you for having me.
Hannah Witton
Thanks for listening. Bye.
Kat Blaque
Bye.
Hannah Witton
Thank you so much for listening. If you enjoyed this episode, I would really appreciate it if you left a rating and a review. You can find show notes at DoingItPodcast.co.uk, and do go follow us on social media, @DoingItPodcast on Twitter and Instagram, and I'll catch you in the next episode.
Hannah Witton
This was a Global original podcast.