Postpartum Sex Life, Bisexuality and Vaginas with Melanie Murphy | Transcript
Find the episode shownotes here!
CW: discussion of miscarriage, mention of eating disorders
Hannah Witton
Hi everyone. Welcome back to Doing It, the sex and relationships podcast where sex has never been so nerdy with me, your host, Hannah Witton. In this week's episode, I am joined by Melanie Murphy, an award winning lifestyle YouTuber, bestselling author, and a good friend of mine. Melanie uses her platform to talk all about relationships, motherhood, sexuality, confidence, and mental health.
I had Mel on the podcast a few years ago, but that was before she got married and before she had a baby, so, seeing as I'm currently pregnant myself, I wanted to invite Mel back on to Doing It to talk all about pregnancy, her birth experience, and parenthood. We talked about how Mel's relationship with her bisexuality has changed since getting married and becoming a mum, being genderless blobs with her husband, and navigating creating parenting content whilst also maintaining boundaries for her and her family. Mel opened up about the impact of giving birth on her body, and I shared why I didn't want to see the picture Melanie took of her vulva after giving birth. We talked about the miracle of the body, its capacity to heal, and how Mel's orgasms changed postpartum. Mel gave so much good advice around navigating your sex life with your partner after you have a baby and learning to prioritise time and making extra effort as a couple after becoming parents. We also talked about how to cope with anxiety when you're pregnant and dealing with fears of miscarriage by taking each day as it comes. I loved my chat with Mel: she spoke about all the changes in her life after birth, whether to her body or her relationship, with so much honesty and it's made me feel much more prepared for this next season of my life.
We do discuss miscarriages in this episode so please look after yourself when listening. And as usual, you can find more info and links to everything we talked about in this episode in the shownotes over at doingitpodcast.co.uk and please let us know what you think over on our Twitter or Instagram, which is @doingitpodcast. And if you liked this episode, please leave us a rating and review over on iTunes and Spotify: it's really appreciated. And without further ado, here is my chat with the wonderful Melanie Murphy.
Melanie, welcome back to the podcast. It's your second time here. How are you doing?
Melanie Murphy
And this is my first time that isn't live.
Hannah Witton
I know! You're like one of two people, I think, who I've done like a live episode with so very special indeed. And now we're doing it remotely.
Melanie Murphy
Yes. I'd like to apologise for my husky voice, everyone. I'm just coming out of COVID. And I sound a bit like an eighty year old woman who smoked for a long time. But I'm feeling very good now, so.
Hannah Witton
I think you sound grand. So nothing to worry about there.
Melanie Murphy
It's sexy!
Hannah Witton
Exactly! But so much has changed in your life and in my life since we last did one of these together and so I just wanted to take this opportunity to kind of like dive into all of this kind of stuff. We're gonna chat a lot about like pregnancy and like baby stuff and relationship stuff. And I think like the reason I wanted to do this episode with you is because I often like to get different experts on to kind of like talk about, like, what's going on with all of these things, but I thought it'd be really interesting for also people to hear just like two mates having a conversation about like this because like you're - you have a toddler now. I'm like about to have a baby. And so I wanted to kind of like take this opportunity to be like, "Mel, what's in my future?"
Melanie Murphy
I'm so - I'm so stupid excited for you. It's a joke. But yeah, I think that's it. Let's just chat like we're on a phone call. Because there's so many things that -
Hannah Witton
There's so many things!
Melanie Murphy
I know I'm seeing you soon in person, but like there's, we're not going to get to talk through everything even then, because there's just so much to attack.
Hannah Witton
No. So obviously we have to like make it work for us to have like a proper deep chat about this. But actually the first thing I wanted to chat with you about - because this is something we talked about in the first episode together - was talking about your bisexuality and like being in a relationship with a man. And I wanted to chat about like how that maybe has evolved and like now that you're married to a man, now that you are also a mum, like, do you find ways to like connect to your bisexuality at all? Like, is that something that you think about / engage with in any way? Or is it something that you've maybe like struggled to kind of keep connected to?
Melanie Murphy
So I actually was talking to Thomas about this really recently, because I was just talking to him and I said, about how I feel like - that term even - I don't necessarily - I know I'm still bisexual, but it's not such an important part of my identity anymore. Because we were in a discussion about how much the word "mother" does or does not kind of link in with my concept of myself and my identity. And I do feel like "mother" is a very strong part of my identity now. And that's how we got onto this topic. Because, you know, in the past, I'd always - you know, there'd always be certain words for different aspects of myself, I guess. And when I was single, I found it much more important to talk about my sexuality and to be very much kind of almost, almost wearing it on my exterior as like a badge so people knew.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, like, "Hi, I'm bi, just so you know!"
Melanie Murphy
Yeah, just so you know, like, just so we can open up these options a little bit here. And yeah, it's just so so interesting that, like, a lot of other things when I was single, like, they were much more important to my identity. Bisexuality, I feel now is such - it's so more private - it's so much more private to me. And you know, it's much more part of my, you know, porn watching and that kind of thing. And just my, my, my own private conversations with my husband and friends and stuff, but it's definitely not so out there in that, like, I don't need to bring it up as often because all the important people know. So if I'm talking about the past, and I'm referencing a woman, they know, and it's not new information that needs to necessarily be shared, because I'm not seeking a partner. And I just - it actually was just such a strange moment for me to realise that I was, like, kind of realising why it was just a huge thing for me in my mid 20s, when I was single, to to really be like, exploring that, examining it and picking it apart. And I was doing a lot of that in public, and I don't know how healthy that was, but at the same time, it did help a lot of other people. So I don't mind now looking back, but I think if, if I was me now going on online, I don't think I would necessarily have that as like, you know, it's never necessarily been in my bio about who I am but it was a very, very important thing for me. Yeah, so it's just kind of, because - and I don't even really necessarily think of Thomas as a man, he's like my partner, but like, when we're in a relationship, when we're alone in our relationship, we - our roles are not very - I think from the outside, we probably seem a bit more like traditional man and woman. But like, the two of us alone, I don't even think about gender when I'm with him, like the two of us are like genderless blobs when we're alone in the house, so.
Hannah Witton
I think that into like, a lot of this like gender being a performance thing, and you need like other people or like external, like forces in society to be like witnessing your gender or witnessing your sexuality for it to become this, like, important thing. And I think that's really interesting what you're saying about like public versus private parts of your identity, but then also how like, that just shifts as you get older, or just as life circumstances change, or like your priorities change and things like that. It's like, yeah, that's just like really interesting to me to think about because there's like, obviously, so many different facets of our identity, not just in terms of like sexuality and gender, it could be around like your interests and your hobbies, and like your relationships to other people and stuff.
Melanie Murphy
Well, I was talking with a friend recently and then like, our friend, and we were just talking about things that we do and don't share online and just he shared with me something that he never ever wants as part of his like, online self and I was like, "That's such a huge part of your life." And and it made me analyse, like, what I put online and what I don't put online, and that, you know, this whole conversation about, like how to be truly authentic online. It is - it's becoming harder for me. Yeah, even the fact that "mother" to me is such a huge part of my identity and I think online is now as well, but then I don't share, I share hardly any of my relationship with my son, and my son, and just my day to day and like the majority of what I do and my experiences are not documented online, but like my phone is just full of all this stuff to do with me and my son.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, and like please send me all of that.
Melanie Murphy
It's just like, yeah, I have a bit of a weird relationship with even the word identity now, because I'm realising how much that's always in flux. Like, it's just always, always changing.
Hannah Witton
Yeah.
Melanie Murphy
And - and I think as well, when I was younger, it was a bit, it was more - I valued - it was really important for others to see me as I saw myself at the time, whereas now, I don't really care. If other people see me the way I see myself, it doesn't matter to me anymore. I'm like, "You can just view me as whatever. And it's not going to change how I view myself." But it would have when I was younger. I don't - it's very strange how we change in that regard.
Hannah Witton
I was gonna ask about your decision and stuff to kind of like keep your - I want to say baby, but I guess he's a toddler now - your kid's like face and name and just like a lot of stuff about him offline and private? And what kind of like the response from, like, your audience online has been, like supportive, or was there like pushback or pressure to like, share more?
Melanie Murphy
I think the majority of the feedback was extremely positive. And but at the beginning, there was just a few people - and I don't think they were my necessarily like loyal followers, if you know what I mean Like, I hate saying "followers" as if they're disciples. But you know, the people who have been around a long time, they were all extremely understanding and supportive. And then there was the odd person who just seemed quite entitled, and was really trying to overstep any boundaries I was putting in place. And that kind of frustrated me. And then I did get a bunch of followers when I was pregnant. And I think they were like, disappointed that then I wasn't sharing more of that and I lost some of those. And they were more so people, I think, who were like leaving those comments. But those comments were like, a little speckling among, like people.
Hannah Witton
that's interesting. You've got to, like, manage people's expectations who follow you. They're like, "Oh, I'm gonna follow this pregnant person, because then that's going to lead to parenting content
Melanie Murphy
Parenting content, yeah, and I try, I do try and share parenting content, but you can do that without, I suppose, crossing those boundaries. But it's like, it's so hard to talk about as well, because I don't - I don't judge anyone who does share it that stuff because I actually love, I love consuming that content and stuff. It's weird. It's such a weird thing.
Hannah Witton
I'm the same, I'm like, "Yes, show me photos or videos of your cute, adorable baby and children." But like, I won't, I won't be doing that. But like, if you're really okay doing that, like, that's fine.
Melanie Murphy
And it, there's so many things wrapped up in it. Like, for me. And I know, it's, it's a shame to have to act from a place of fear, I suppose. But a lot of it - a lot of the initial decision was, I think, built on fear of the unknown. Future. And just like a fear of even - I don't even know how I feel about certain things. So I didn't want to make a decision that I couldn't go back on when I don't even know how I feel about things. Like I don't know how I feel about like, the whole right to privacy, right to anonymity and that kind of thing. I don't even know if I'm that comfortable that I've shared so many pictures where like, you can see the back of his head and things like that, like I try and share my life still, but he's with me all the time. And it's so hard to know what - I don't want to just make up things to post just to post something. And then it's, it's like deciding between that and sharing what's actually happening, and then he'll very likely be there in some way. And so I was just like, "How can I share my life? And be honest about that, but also, for my son when he's older to never be able to Google himself and find a link to me." That's all I wanted, is like, I don't want, when he's older, for like his friends to like, find out his full name and ever be able to link that back to, you know, stuff from me acting, you know, the way I was in my twenties.
Hannah Witton
Or like Google searching yourself at 14 years old and discovering that like -
Melanie Murphy
Your whole childhood is online!
Hannah Witton
- that Google Images is just like, filled with photos of you as a baby and a child. Yeah, that's something - that's something that I think about as well. And it's just like, a bit weird. I don't know. Like, if I want kid photos of me, I'll like text my parents to be like, "Have you got any photos of me like around this age?" If I'm looking for them. But yeah, that is a pain in itself. But hey.
Melanie Murphy
I know some kids probably love, love the fact that they can just find stuff online. But the way I always think about that: they don't understand the internet. Like they can't - there's no way they can understand what it means to be - to have an online version of yourself, I suppose. And everyone - I know that the world they're going into, they're going to have to have like the the online, like, limb that is them and how they choose to - but that's it like, I don't want to choose what that is for him. I would rather he do that himself whenever, like, we decide that he's allowed to be online. And like, my husband is very "When he's 18. And he's not -" And I'm like, "Yeah, whatever, like, you know."
Hannah Witton
Good luck!
Melanie Murphy
Yeah, good luck. And so yeah, we're not necessarily like sure, yet, what age and all that kind of -
Hannah Witton
Also the landscape is going to change so much between now and then anyway. But I wanted to get into more of the like, sexy filth conversation away from baby specific things.
Melanie Murphy
Yeah. Well, I, I do want to - I want to talk a lot about your I know, I'm the guest and stuff like that, but it's still very, like, I just can't stop. I'm just dying for you to give birth. Like, dying to see this child and to just hold them!
Hannah Witton
I did have my first moment, a couple of nights ago when I was having a really bad night's sleep whereas like, "I just want pregnancy to be over now." And I was - that was the first like, thought of that and I'm sure that might like, crop up a bit more and more. But I've only had that thought once so far, but we'll see. But speaking of giving birth, you took a picture of your vulva.
Melanie Murphy
My fanny, yeah.
Hannah Witton
After birth.
Melanie Murphy
Oh Hannah. Did I show that to you?
Hannah Witton
And I was curious - no, you offered to show it to me. But this was when I was pregnant. And I was like, I was like -
Melanie Murphy
I'll show it to you after!
Hannah Witton
Yeah, maybe after? If I take one of mine after birth as well and then we can compare! No, you did offer and I was like, "I'm not ready. I don't - that's in my future so I just, I don't think I want to see that."
Melanie Murphy
That's so funny!
Hannah Witton
But I was wondering if like what you felt at the time when you took that picture? And you saw that picture? And also have you gone back ever and like, looked at it since?
Melanie Murphy
Yeah. See? I'm very detached from it now. Now. I can look at it and go, "Oh, bodies are so amazing." Well, I was - I - it was a really stupid thing probably for me to do. Like, initially, when I first saw it, I was a bit traumatised. And I know I don't, I don't typically use that word lightly. Like I don't like throwing the word traumatised around. But because sex and you know, my sexuality, all of that is just so, so important to me. You know, it's just, it's just a pillar of my life. My vagina means a lot to me. I, I did kind of have just a say massive freakout. Like it was just shocking. And for anyone who like, you know, hasn't given birth and is wondering what I mean by that, it - I essentially, when I gave birth. I tore three different directions. My child was massive he had he was nine pound four - nine lb 3. And he was a huge head, you know, he was a massive baby.
Hannah Witton
Big baby.
Melanie Murphy
They they used a forceps as well. And like, typically, that can lead to worst tearing but - and I did all of the whole, like, we literally did the, you know, massaging the perineum. Thomas would be on the floor in front of me with his fingers, like, we did all this.
Hannah Witton
Oh my god, this is all - this is in my future. And I keep on saying to Dan, like, "Are you gonna help me with my like perineum massage?" And he's just like, "No." I'm gonna have to actually ask for your advice on positions because like, I've, I've watched like, a tutorial about like, how to do it, but they don't demo it. Like, they're just like using their hands to try and like describe it. And I'm like, "This is why we need like actual, like, explicit sex ed with like actual bodies because I'm watching these videos and I'm like, I don't understand how your hands relate to my perineum right now."
Hannah Witton
I actually, I was scouring the internet for videos of an actual woman's vagina and like, like, just to see - I just wanted to see it all. And I just kept finding, you know, dummies and pretend - you know that - it's just not helpful at all. And obviously, like who really wants to film that? Like even - even just because it was -
Hannah Witton
Some people do. I've seen some videos where it's like somebody completely naked, teaching you how to like put in a menstrual cup and use a menstrual cup and stuff and it's all like, fully nude but it's like, obviously behind like a 18 plus. And it might also be behind a paywall as well. Because it's considered like sexually explicit, because it's like full, full on nudity.
Melanie Murphy
Yeah, it's the same with, you know, breastfeeding stuff. I always see people post pictures, and then Instagram marks it as sensitive content. And I'm just like, "God, come on, this is what they're there for." But yeah, with that, like, I just lay kind of on my back, but I was always trying to sit up to like, see what he was doing. Which was just not a good idea. I just found it very, very uncomfortable, because I have that, like form of vaginismus anyway, it's not, it was not pleasant for me at all. And I didn't think it would be - It wasn't even like what he was doing was uncomfortable. It was just the fact that it was an unsexual - non-sexual entering of my vagina area. Just that was what my brain was, like, "Get out of there. Like, that's so close to my baby."
Hannah Witton
Like this is clinical.
Melanie Murphy
Yeah, yeah, clinical is the right word. But anyway, all that to say it didn't help. I got - so I had a third degree tear and two secondary tears. And the worst version is a fourth degree tear which is essentially like -
Hannah Witton
It goes all the way to your bum hole.
Melanie Murphy
All the way to your bum hole that's like, like *exploding fart noise*, you know, right?
Hannah Witton
Great sound effect.
Melanie Murphy
Delicious. And yeah, that was going on. And then I got - I had really, really bad haemorrhoids. I like to use the word bunch of grapes to to describe what was hanging, and just was there. And it was not supposed to be there. I also had edema, which is swelling of the area. So like, it just didn't look -
Hannah Witton
Because it's just really sore.
Melanie Murphy
Really sore. And it was, and now obviously afterwards, like you keep taking like really strong painkillers, and, you know, you put an ice pack down there. And it - when I think back on it now I can't remember what it felt like, I can't remember how bad it was. I know at the time, it was very uncomfortable. And I was really upset because I couldn't, you know, sit down on it properly for a while, like for a few weeks. But it was such a blur because I was so focused on the baby, that I really don't care, I would completely do it again, even if I knew it was going to look the same again. I would do it again now. Like everything the same, because I know that it all went back to normal.
Melanie Murphy
Yeah, and you know, it's a little - things are moved around a tiny little bit. I can feel scar tissue down there and stuff. But you know, sex feels completely normal now, I never thought it would, it would feel the same again. However, orgasms feel a bit different. Like, and I don't know how to describe why or how or what it is. But I can have them faster, which is amazing. And a couple of them I had were like really, really intense. Some of them I had, it was like, it was like - it was an orgasm, but it was like "ah." And it was kind of disappointing. That was only like a brief second of what I normally get. And a couple of other times then I was able to have another orgasm like immediately after first orgasm. So I feel like it moved things around in a way that I'm still trying to understand because, you know, I'm not as active in terms of masturbating and sex as I was before. So it's like I've not racked up enough practice.
Hannah Witton
It healed.
Hannah Witton
Still exploring.
Melanie Murphy
Yeah, still playing around.
Hannah Witton
I was actually gonna ask about that. Like, what is the sex life like? Especially when you co sleep with a toddler? Like, how - how?
Melanie Murphy
it's just not in our bed.
Hannah Witton
Everywhere else.
Melanie Murphy
Everywhere else. Like we are moving into our first house that we've just bought, but we have literally been living with in-laws since our baby was born. And we do have a lot of space away from them. And it's not like, you know, we're all on top of each other or anything like that. But up in the loft area where we live in their house, there has been two different bedrooms. So we would like get him to sleep and then we would spend our evenings in the other bedroom. It's very, like it is very easy to kind of have your alone time and still co-sleep. Because otherwise, you know, you'd obviously have to probably go to bed when your child is going to bed. It would depend for people on their space.
Hannah Witton
When was the last time you had sex in your own bed?
Melanie Murphy
In my own bed? Probably when I was pregnant.
Hannah Witton
Oh my god.
Melanie Murphy
I can't - I can't get in the mood if he's there. And I thought beforehand, I thought - you know, I saw some videos and people were talking about, you know, and a lot of this there's a lot of like taboo around this but it's also a very - it's very privileged, I think, to judge people who have sex and their child is you know, maybe asleep in the cot in the same room and stuff like that. They may not have anywhere to go, you know. And that's just the reality for people, they have to just get over it. And like when I was growing up, and I know my parents wouldn't have had it anywhere else, we had a very small house. And I never remembered anything if I was in the room as a baby, so that's a good thing, but yeah, it's - I just find it very difficult though if if the child is, you know, there.
Hannah Witton
In the bed.
Melanie Murphy
I just want to keep checking him and making sure he's asleep. And then I can't, you know, get lost -
Hannah Witton
In the moment.
Melanie Murphy
In the moment. You know, yeah, like, if we're in a hotel as well, we'd always then try and get a room that has like, a room and then like a little living room area. So we can - it really affects things, like it does. And it's not something I was that prepared for. But at the same time, it just kind of happens and you just deal with it. You know, you're like, "Right, our sex life is different now." And we just have to, you know, go with the flow and figure things out.
Hannah Witton
I think that's so important as well as to be like, "Yeah, it's different. But like, that doesn't mean that we have to kind of like, dwell on like, 'Oh, if only it was like the same as it was before'." Because like, it's not going to be.
Melanie Murphy
No, there's no way it's like, it's like the same as if you get into a relationship and you expect it to be like, the the honeymoon phase for the entire - the rest of your life like, no way.
Hannah Witton
That's exhausting.
Melanie Murphy
You'd die of adrenaline. It's just not - it's not natural. And for adults - yeah, like I - you know, I'm still breastfeed now at like 16 months, and that, that hugely impacts your hormones. I only just got my period back there last week.
Hannah Witton
Congrats!
Melanie Murphy
Thank you! I'm still fertile, hopefully! But it's like, you know, it's, it's - that - all that hormonal shift, you know, a lot of the time and you're just not horny, and that's okay, because it doesn't make sense for me to be horny right now. My body probably doesn't want me to be horny right now because I have to look after this small child. If I was, you know - so it makes sense why there's a dip after childbirth in your, you know, your general - and this isn't - I'm not speaking on behalf of everyone, I'm speaking just for myself, but I know that I'm having a very typical experience. And you know, I do sometimes still get in the mood. Usually when I do, I'm exhausted. A lot of the time when I do, it's bad timing. You're constantly trying to work around the child, like they do - I when I was younger, I was very much like, "When I have a kid, they're not going to become my whole world." And, you know, "I'm still gonna have a life." And what I consider a life now is really different.
Hannah Witton
Oh, yeah.
Melanie Murphy
You know, I think I used to be really just, you know, I'd be in a restaurant and I'd see parents and I'd like, "When I have a kid..." This that the other and it's just like, I didn't know anything. Like you can't. Until you experience it you really can't know and it is different for everyone as well. But it's not - it's not bad different. It's just different.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, outside of the sex stuff, how have you and Thomas been able to, like, connect with each other outside of like, being parents? Because that's something that I want to like, really actively, like, work on with Dan and not - because I feel like it's something that you have to put effort into.
Melanie Murphy
Oh, yeah. Like there was a few months at the start where we - you know, because we before we had our son, we never were the type of couple to bicker ever. Like, we wouldn't bicker over little things. And we had like a few bigger arguments. But we were even in a good place with that, like, we were just, you know, if there was something bothering us, we'd have an adult conversation and that'd be it. But in the first few months, we weren't setting aside any time because I don't think there was time, like realistically. Anytime there was time, it was time for more sleep. So I just didn't realise how important it was going to be for us to kind of - we hit a wall where we were like, "We've spent this last week, you know, multiple times a day, like snapping at each other." And we just kind of hit a wall and realised like, you know, we have to prioritise our relationship right now for - not just for like our baby but for our future and ourselves. Like we needed to set aside time in the evenings like just over dinner and for about an hour after dinner to just like chat and watch something together and just like cuddle, like just make an effort to even - during the day - look at each other because I didn't see him for months and he was right beside me! Because I had so much - I just felt so much responsibility all the time with the baby that the two of us would be constantly passing each other and doing things all the time that you temporarily become like, a team. And just like you're both - and it's, that's a good thing. It's a very - it's a sign of very strong, healthy relationship if you can do that, because, God, like I think a lot of couples fall apart in the first year after a baby. It does - it's very testing, but like we got, I think it was like six, seven months in and things started just really just becoming so much easier. And you know, we started really enjoying each other's company and stuff again, but just finding time to like, find a moment to have a laugh and, and also just, I think expecting it as well, because only a couple of people really like gave me a heads up about this.
And again, I did listen, but I just didn't - I didn't understand because our relationship was so like, "Oh we'll just go and do whatever we want wherever," and, you know, just we you know, we had sex like most days and it was just - it was very different. And you know, we had a lot of quality time obviously and there was the lockdowns when I was pregnant so we were constantly together and going for these long romantic walks and then, yeah, it's just nearly most of our conversations soon became about baby poo and you know this and that and how, you know, trying to schedule things but once you get to the other side of the like - there's just a pocket of time that's hard and you get to the other side of that and it's just like, "Wow, like look what we did."
Hannah Witton
Like, "Oh I can breathe now! Hello partner, like, how are you?"
Melanie Murphy
Lovely and like yeah, we're definitely getting back to the way things were now, which is lovely. It did - it just takes a while and and the way I see, it if you've married someone and you intend on spending a lifetime with, like, a little few months where things are, are kind of changed and, you know, the child is so top priority, it's not the end of the world and I think -
Hannah Witton
That's a good way of looking at it, as well. Like in terms of like actually the amount of time that you plan on spending together, like this is this is nothing.
Melanie Murphy
It's a blip, like it's a tiny little blip and and that's it and like even in terms of - I think you know, one thing is was, we didn't actually pre-plan to - we did plan to co-sleep for six months but we definitely didn't plan to bed share which is something that we do. Like we follow like the safe sleep seven and you know it's - but it's just worked out really well for us but I remember when we first introduced that whole concept, when we first started looking into that, it's just with with breastfeeding at night time it just means everyone gets the maximum amount of sleep like including the baby. It was something though that initially I think we were both very hesitant about it because it kind of meant that our bed stopped being our place of like, you know -
Hannah Witton
Your sanctuary.
Melanie Murphy
Yeah, and then the bed in the other - so what we did was we were like right, "We still need our little sanctuary we'll just make it be the bed in the other room." And, you know, in the spare room, I suppose. But now you know when we're moving into the new house he will have his own room and it's just going to be a thing where if he needs one of us in the middle of night, likely me, I'll go in to him in the middle of the night and Thomas will be asleep anyway so it's not gonna make any difference but we will have reclaimed our little, you know, our own little -
Hannah Witton
"We're taking back what is ours, baby."
Melanie Murphy
It is so - it's just so wild because, yeah, like your child does become part of your - very part of your relationship and you do have to actively try to - had to have your own - the two of you. You know we used to have all these jokes where it was like, "Rule number one: we are number one." Before we had the baby we were like, "We have to stay each other is number one." And then he came along and we were like, "He's number one." It's true. It's so true but it's just - it just is what it is lonely and you you know you guys really wanted to have a baby and stuff so like you're not - I don't think you're going to be as thrown by it as what you might expect because it's something you both really want, you know.
Hannah Witton
We'll see. Dan just keeps on being like, "Oh, it's gonna be easy. Piece of piss." And I'm like, "Please manage your expectations a bit better."
Melanie Murphy
Oh, it's the hardest - it's the hardest thing I've ever done in my fucking life."
Hannah Witton
I mean, if one of us is super chill then maybe that'll help.
Melanie Murphy
that's it like I think yeah, Thomas is like that as well. He's very chill and always is very, you know, positive and just kind of, "It'll be grand, it'll all be fine." And you, yeah. But it's you know, when you say like, "It's really hard" - it's it's such a worth it hard, you know. Anytime - it's like when you when you have a job doing something you really enjoy - and some people use that phrase, "Oh, if you do something you enjoy you never work a day in your life." I think that's a load of bollocks.
Hannah Witton
I think that's bollocks because if you do something you love, you never stop working.
Melanie Murphy
No, you're always - your brain never gives up. It's that kind of feeling. It's like you're always, every second of the day. It's nonstop and you never - I just am like, "I'm never gonna get a break until he's like moved out when he's like 35."
Hannah Witton
"When he's 35." Yeah, she's Irish.
Melanie Murphy
He's Irish. And houses are like half a million. Yeah, that will be - but it's -
Hannah Witton
I keep thinking about him having a little Irish accent.
Melanie Murphy
Oh, Hannah, I know. But all of us bloody toys have English accents. And all of the like little baby cartoons that we play, they all have English accents as well.
Hannah Witton
Gap in the Irish parenting markets.
Melanie Murphy
Oh my god, like the pronunciation of everything. Like he has this toy and instead of square, I say square it says square. And I'm just like, "What is he gonna end up saying? What will he sound like? I just wonder."
Hannah Witton
I'm having a hard time accepting that my kid's gonna have a southern accent. And will probably say grass and not grass. And I'm like, grass, it's grass.
Hannah Witton
Okay, Mel, we've got loads of questions from people on Instagram. And I want to try and get to as many as possible. Somebody asked: how did you cope with first trimester anxiety? Did you experience that?
Melanie Murphy
Yes. So my hospital stay, it wasn't the best after the baby. Just I think just because, you know, at the height of COVID measures, the staff were so stretched. And visitors weren't allowed in. So what was happening was usually where the visitors would fill in and kind of hand you things from your bedside and like, give you the baby and then put the baby back in the little, you know, they have them in a little container cot thing. And just all those little things, like get me a sandwich or a drink - you'd be ringing your bell all the time and - but they had the same amount of staff or less staff actually than normal. And no, no guests. So like, you know, I'd need water and no one will come for you. So it was just - and I had a catheter in so I couldn't get up. And it was just like a really awful few days. And I was only allowed to have Thomas visit me for 45 minutes once a day. And it was really
Melanie Murphy
Oh, it was so bad!
Hannah Witton
Honestly, like, brutal. And you talked about like your postpartum experience.
Hannah Witton
And just especially with a lot of like the COVID restrictions in in hospitals as well. I was just like, "What just sounds so hard." But I think this person was asking about first trimester of pregnancy.
Melanie Murphy
Oh, yeah. I thought they meant the fourth trimester.
Hannah Witton
Oh, right, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Melanie Murphy
When they said "first" I was thinking of post-baby. Anyway, yeah, sorry. So yeah, my anxiety just I think escalated badly because of that. But no, going back to the first trimester of pregnancy, I didn't - I wouldn't say I had, like anxiety in that like, I wasn't having panic attacks or anything like that. That's just what my brain relates to as anxiety for me. I say I'm, "I'm very anxious" when I am actively, like panicking a lot and stuff. I was very stressed and nervous about having a miscarriage though. And but it wasn't like - I was trying so hard to stay calm and be very, very calm. Because I know, I knew that that wouldn't, you know, constantly having panic, you know, you don't want to be in a state of panic when you're pregnant, obviously. So I was really trying to, to kind of manage my expectations and just know that it, you know, it's very common, it might happen, if it happens, I'll go again. And I was, I was just trying to be very, very level headed, but it - you know, it does stay in the back of your mind.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, because you've had a miscarriage before as well.
Melanie Murphy
Yes, so I knew I was like, I'm my body's capable of that. My mom's had them, my granny had loads of them. Nearly everyone in my life to be honest, like, has had them and that's not to say it's like a genetic thing. It's just a - it's just a woman thing. It's just the thing that happens to people who have babies or can have babies like, you know, you can - you have so many lose some, and so that was definitely like, in my head and so what that did was it kind of made me hold back on telling lots of people at the start, so I didn't -
Hannah Witton
Although I'm pretty sure like you sent me a picture of your like positive pregnancy test like the day of or very soon after.
Melanie Murphy
Oh yeah, you're - it's different with like - I feel like I told any of my best friends and my close family like, people that like I'm really close to, I did tell all them immediately, because I knew that I wouldn't mind telling you that I had a miscarriage or talking about miscarriage with you. Whereas I felt like I - and I'm very, like, open online, but I just felt like if I was going through a miscarriage, I don't know how I would feel about still having to post content and like - and I don't think I would want to talk about it for a long time till afterwards, because I'm trying this thing where I talk about things, like, you know, after I've processed them, so, you know, when, when I first like quit drinking, and all that kind of stuff, like I was very holding back on a lot of the details around that. And, and then, you know, I waited about six months, and then I kind of opened a bit more. And then a year later, I opened up a bit more and like, then only recently, I kind of have explained a bit more about why I stopped drinking and stuff, which is like, you know, nearly three years or something. So, with a miscarriage, like, when you want a baby, I just can't imagine anything more challenging, you know, so. But that's the thing, like being anxious isn't going to stop it.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, I remember. Yeah. I remember like, I was also quite like nervous about that in the first trimester. And one thing that really helped me was something that I remember seeing a friend Sierra, post on her like Instagram stories - because she had a miscarriage before she had her baby. And someone asked her about this as well. And she said things that helped her get through with her second pregnancy, kind of like mentally working through that, was just like, every day just being like, "Today, I am pregnant." And it just being like a very like present thing, like "This is true right now." And being grateful for that right now. And that really, really helped me. It was just like, "Today, like right now I am pregnant." And like, that is the truth of it.
Melanie Murphy
That's the biggest thing for anxiety is bringing yourself back to the present as well. Like, that's the exact same thing that I did, even through eating disorder recovery. It was like, one meal at a time, you know. "This meal. I am just going to make sure I eat this meal. And this meal is what I want in this moment right now. And I'm going to eat what I want." And you know, and I took it like constantly one step at a time. So like, that's a brilliant way to approach that, I think. And because anxiety is usually you're getting so lost in worries about the future and what might and might not happen. You've no control over that. And you're dead right: that's a brilliant way to go about it.
Hannah Witton
Yeah. But speaking of postpartum though, somebody did ask: what's something you wish people had told you about postpartum? What do you want me to know?
Melanie Murphy
About postpartum - oh, I just like - that - that so much of what you see online isn't reflective of the reality of it. It's impossible. I tried so hard to share, you know, during the first like, three months, I really wanted to be very open and honest and share. And I did and I vlogged bits of this and then the other bit, but you can't. Like, it still I think came across, like it looks a lot easier than it is. And it still it comes across, you know, cuz you see a picture of someone, even just seeing a picture of a mother with her hair done out on a walk with her baby having a coffee. Like, it's not like that at all.
Hannah Witton
Like, the amount of effort it took to get to the point where you could take that photo.
Melanie Murphy
To even be clean! Oh my god, it's just not - it's, it's, it's, it's a shit show. But it's like, it is for everyone. And even the people who you see, it's just extremely difficult to, to capture and share it and it's not even something you necessarily - because you want to just be there in it. You don't want to be like, "How do I document every angle of this fucking thing." Also, like, like, everyone has their own advice and opinions on every single thing you should and shouldn't do. And, like, just ignore it and just do what works for you. And follow your own instincts. Like I didn't - I had a lot of plans based around people I follow. And, you know, and I'm speaking as someone who I know people follow me and probably, like, get ideas from this than the other but I genuinely thought that there was a way you do things and this is the way you do things because all of these people I follow all do this thing and use this one and like, just even in terms of like what they wear and just everything. It just goes out the window and just like - just - you're not failing if you change what your plans are like after the baby comes, because you know, it's just such a mad mental thing and you have have to just do whatever to keep yourself, you know, afloat and, and whatever works for you.
And don't compare your experience of motherhood with like, yeah, like, I suppose what you're seeing online. Because that just I think - it's probably coming across - that definitely affected me. I think at the start I was like, "Why is this - why am I finding this so hard?" And I'm following all these people and it just looks like, you know, it looks like an accessory or it looks like their dog, you know, they're walking their dog, like it's, it's just so all consuming and - but that's the best part about it. So, you know, it's just one of those things in life that you go through and it makes you really appreciate other people going through it and you pull together. Like I've got a small group of mammies local now that I am so close to and like we have a group chat and like, just even meeting up with them. Because we're all in the same phase. Like, I think when you have this baby as well, like it's gonna even pull me and you even more close. And that has happened. But I think we've had a lot of parallels where like, we've been single at the same time, this at the same time, that same time. And, and, and I know with like the lockdowns, it kind of came between like, you know, the way like we didn't see each other while I was pregnant. But I want to come over at least, like, at least twice while you're pregnant.
Hannah Witton
Good luck!
Melanie Murphy
Once this baby passport gets here. It's - everything so slow. I'm waiting on my son's passport, guys, like, since November. I think.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, a long time. But, um, so one of the things that you do, which you found works for you and your baby, is exclusively breastfeeding. And somebody had a question, which was: how to keep husband involved, or I guess just like the non breastfeeding partner involved, while exclusively breastfeeding?
Melanie Murphy
Oh it's hard - so, you know, one way a lot of people go about it is that they pump breast milk. And then the - like, we tried this at the start a few times. And he did, you know, give him a few little bottles with like a bit of expressed milk in them. But our son went off those bottles really quickly, and just wanted boob because it wasn't just for the milk. Like it's, it's it's a lot of things, but nutrition. There's a lot, even just the touch and the the eye to eye gaze and kind of the - they actually their temperature can regulate next to your skin and their heart. And there's so much about that, that the bottle wasn't kind of replacing for him, I guess. So - because that's why even when babies are being bottle fed, they like being in their mother's, like, arm up against the chest, you know, they like to have their place that they love being.
But, obviously, like dads want to help and dads want to get involved and stuff. So what he said was, he was like, "Look, the food, the boob, that's your thing. But my time with him for these few weeks is going to be I'm gonna do all the nappies. And that's going to be our thing." And then or he'd have like, you know, he'd would walk him a lot, he would - he just took over different aspects of the relationship and of his wake windows, and you know, then his bath like he would do his baths, and I'd kind of watch him or he'd do his massages after his baths. Like, there's so many ways, there's so many things like that, you know, between waking up and going to sleep at night, like, so much has to happen with a baby. Like, it's not like milk and boob is the only important thing. It's just one thing of many, many things. And I think if pumping isn't an option, or if your baby like just is a little shit like mine is and just doesn't want a bottle, then yeah, like just let dad get involved in essentially every other part of the baby's life and, you know, going for walks in the buggie. Like there's so many things. Baby wearing as well. He would - he would wear the strap on thing or I had a wraparound thing but he had with this one strapped onto his chest to put him in and so he'd get used to his smell and all that and, yeah, it was lovely. They have a lovely relationship and, and you know, he was never given him bottles and stuff, but then when the solids started, he would, you know, give him more solid meals and stuff. So it's, it's, you know, I think there's so much put on that where it's just one tiny - not tiny but it's a very important one - but it's one aspect of like the whole picture. And like lots of different family members can get so involved with the child, even if the child won't have anything but boob, you know?
Hannah Witton
Yeah, no That makes sense. Mel, thank you so much.
Melanie Murphy
I'm such a waffler, Hannah.
Hannah Witton
No, this has been so fun. You do love to chat and that's why I love chatting with you though. I guess what I wanted to end it on, because I feel like one of the kind of like tropes of being a parent online is like getting lots of unsolicited advice from people. And so I wanted to actually ask for some solicited advice. I'm soliciting advice from you as a friend, as a friend.
Melanie Murphy
Oh. So in terms of like, give me parameters, so I can keep it very short.
Hannah Witton
Okay, um, I guess just kind of like postpartum and like relationship stuff.
Melanie Murphy
Okay, postpartum and relationship stuff. I would - so the biggest thing, I think, for me, that affected my relationship with Thomas after baby is that I found it very hard to not resent Thomas for the amount of sleep he was getting compared to me. And it sounds so silly and so petty, but it's something that like, if you talk to a lot of people, like, who've just had a baby - like he was able to sleep through - like, he did agree "For the first few weeks, you know, I'll wake up and I'll do all the nappies." Because I really, I couldn't really stand much and stuff because I had that really bad tear, I was trying to heal. So I kind of did need that and, and he was doing - you know, baby would wake up I'd feed him. He'd do the nappy. I'd have to like wake him every time. And it was multiple times a night, this does slow down. It's very temporary thing. Like it's like a billion shits a day, that's so temporary, and they don't shit all night forever. Anyway. And it got to a point where like - and I never felt like this toward him before and it was really upsetting me, but I'd be there just fucking bull - and like, fuming that he was just so comfortable and asleep and rested when he woke up and, and, you know, so my biggest advice really on this would be like, be really honest about it and talk about it with him. Because like, I think if I didn't just tell him and like - I wasn't given out to him, I was just, like, "I need to vent."
Hannah Witton
Yeah, because you're just like, "This isn't your fault, but this is just how I'm feeling."
Melanie Murphy
Really, yeah. And have had conversations before about it with him that like just for him to just listen and just like, he doesn't have to apologise for getting all the sleep, stuff like that. It's just like, just hearing you. It just kind of helps. And yeah, like have having those, like really awkward conversations. It's so uncomfortable saying certain things to your partner after a baby and like, you know, and just even the - like, how much you expect of them. Like being really honest. I thought like, I would be like, "Please, can you, you know, make me meals for these first few weeks like so that I can focus completely on the baby because he was like, constantly on my boob." And it was - I was really struggling to get like basic things done. But yeah, just being like - I suppose - I don't know how to like advise on like, cuz I think you and Dan are like really good with that kind of thing like talking about it and all.
Hannah Witton
Oh yeah, no, I'll very happily be like, "I'm so jealous that you're getting all of this sleep. Make me food!"
Melanie Murphy
Yeah, make up for it in other ways. But But yeah, like, we didn't do this early enough. But yeah, I would, I would set aside, just like even if it's half an hour a day, as soon as baby comes - to just like, like, properly talk, like look at each other and talk. Not talking with the TV or like that, just actually like talking. Say if you're having food and like sitting together and talking about things that aren't the baby. It's very hard to do. But like, yeah, it makes such a difference. Like it really, really did. Once we kind of found ourselves coming through that like, tunnel, it was like, "Ah, there you are." It's like, oh, it was so weird. I remember one day I looked at him, I was like "Your head is huge. I'm so used to looking at our son's tiny little head. Like what is with - your eyelashes are massive." Like, it was really strange, it was like I was seeing him for the first time. I was like, "Wow."
Hannah Witton
Oh my god. Yeah. All right. Well, Melanie, thank you so much. Where can people find you online? And also feel free to plug your books.
Melanie Murphy
So yes, I have a new book coming out in May. It's called Glass Houses and I wrote it while I was pregnant and postpartum and fecking through lockdowns and all of that stuff. So like, the theme of motherhood is - it was never going to be such a big theme but it did somehow tie itself into it the entire plot and everything about the characters.
Hannah Witton
Clearly on the mind for some reason.
Melanie Murphy
Yes, I don't know why. And then yeah, I ended up having like one of the characters was like, super against having a baby because at the time, like I was talking to people that were like, "Oh, I'd never be able to do all this stuff that you're doing, why would you put yourself through this?" And all of that was like filtering into one character and yeah, but it's about how people can see the same situation very differently. And yeah, it was a lot of - a lot of fun writing it but you know, it's a bit heavy. And it all is very feel good vibes for the end and -
Hannah Witton
No spoilers!
Melanie Murphy
No spoilers. That's out in May. And yeah, I'm on YouTube, Melanie Murphy, and I have just bought a house so there may be lots of home-ish content.
Hannah Witton
I love that stuff. I want you to make that content just for me to watch. I love that.
Melanie Murphy
I'm starting to like just be like - yeah, what I like on YouTube is constantly changing. But on Instagram, I am @melaniiemurphy with two iis because some other bitch had my name and this is what I settled on and I never changed it!
Hannah Witton
How dare she. Oh my god. Well, thank you so much. This has been so fun. And thank you all for listening.
Melanie Murphy
Thank you! Bye bye!