How to be Good at Dating with Shan Boody | Transcript
Find the episode shownotes here!
Shan Boody
Cuz not everyone's the Emma Watson type. We did a personality test on Hannah's channel, and we found out that she's like a perfect human. And you're almost like a perfect visual specimen.
Shan Boody
Just perfectly balanced, in every single way.
Shan Boody
Yeah.
Hannah Witton
I've got nothing to work on. Not even my modesty.
Shan Boody
No, definitely not your modesty.
Hannah Witton
Welcome to Doing It with me, Hannah Witton, where we talk all things sex, relationships, dating, and our bodies. Hello, welcome back. This week's guest is Shan Boody. She is a sexologist, a YouTuber, an intimacy expert, and oh, boy, is it a good one.
Hannah Witton
So I had to get Shan on the podcast to celebrate the release of her new book, The Game of Desire, which takes a group of women on a journey to become their own intimacy experts. The book contains loads of different methods for this, and I like to describe Shan as the ultimate Ravenclaw when it comes to intimacy and relationships. She will do her homework. And Shan gave the women going through this process with her, the biggest personality quiz thing ever, like all of these different professional quizzes, like it's very personalised, and it feels really effective, and really real. It's like, here are all of the tools that you can use in order to connect with other people, and being a good seducer, and finding your own style when it comes to dating. It is absolutely fascinating, and I could talk to Shan for hours about it. So without further ado, I'm just gonna let Shan take it away with her expertise. And I hope that you enjoy this episode.
Hannah Witton
We are rolling.
Shan Boody
I thought that was your intro voice.
Hannah Witton
We are recording.
Shan Boody
Welcome right now, to the new podcast today by Hannah Witton.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, I think you nailed it. Um, so Shan Boody, thanks for having me in your home in LA.
Shan Boody
Thanks for having me on your podcast.
Hannah Witton
Yeah. So you have a book out. This is your second book.
Shan Boody
It is my second book.
Hannah Witton
But there was like a 10 year gap.
Shan Boody
Yeah.
Hannah Witton
Between the two. So The Game of Desire, this new one, how did it come about? Because, I mean, I like to centre myself and everything, obviously, and a few years ago, we recorded another podcast together. And we were talking about The Game, as in Neil Struass's book. And I remember thinking, Oh, Shan's being like, a lot more forgiving of this than I am. I found that book really difficult. And I remember you being like, but it's all like psychology and it's like, da, da, da, da. Were you already thinking about writing this book then? Or is that you were just like having these thoughts and ideas and then the book kind of came together after?
Shan Boody
Well we were talking about that because I had the show, at the time, called Shan Boody's Your Perfect Date.
Hannah Witton
Yeah.
Shan Boody
Which was me testing out different psychological principles on dates to see if someone can be an exceptional dater, just like someone's an exceptional cook, or exceptionally good at golf. And the game was a lot of my research base. What I think is different about this book in particular, The Game of Desire, is that I learned from the conversation we had. I learned from the conversations I've heard other people having. Aand so in essence, right, if I teach you how to do a dunk, right, that's what the game is. Here's how you do a slam dunk. But that person never learned conditioning, they never learned about teamwork, they never learned about what their strengths are.
Hannah Witton
Yeah.
Shan Boody
The didn't learn how to dribble and so all they know how to do -
Hannah Witton
It's because all of them were learning the same skill.
Shan Boody
Exactly, they were all learning the same trick shot. But to be a true expert in intimacy, it starts with knowing yourself. So this book is a five phase strategy, and only phase four really gets to like the fun tips. All before that, it's about self discovery and personal identification.
Hannah Witton
Because what will work for some people will not work for others.
Shan Boody
Right.
Hannah Witton
Because I I can like maybe see someone being really flirty in a particular way, or really seductive in one way, and I'm like that would never work for me.
Shan Boody
Yes.
Hannah Witton
Like that's great for you. But if I emulated that, if I copied that, it would just come off wrong, awkward, like embarrassing.
Shan Boody
Well, the you who you are today. If you like went backwards and addressed why that's awkward for you, or you went backwards and like identify the different traits that you have, or the things that you've told yourself, you could start working towards becoming that. Like I - the theme of the book is like you are whoever you consistently choose to be. And so you can consistently choose to be that person - doesn't mean you have to because I mean you only have one life to live. I'm not asking you to be like Marilyn Monroe, and Ellen DeGeneres, and The Rock. Like you don't have to try to please all people, but if there's a part of yourself that you want to work on, know that you have every capability and right to do so.
Hannah Witton
And so where do you fit in that, I guess, sliding scale of learning just this blanket set of rules that isn't unique or personal at all that actually - like the way that I saw The Game is like, it's about manipulation almost. And then this other side of things just like, I just want to learn how to meet someone, or I want to be more confident when it comes to dating, like, where do you feel like you fit in that? And also, like, do you ever think about the ethics and the moral responsibility that you have with that kind of stuff?
Shan Boody
So the book is, it's five secrets to dating with dominance. And those five secrets are number one is know. You have to know yourself inside and out. And part of the know is like going back and interviewing people who know you well, and also an ex, to really get a whole picture of who your intimate self is. And then it's change. So once you've identified what some of your pitfalls are, the reasons why you are chronically having issues in this one area, it's up to you to start changing them. And then it's about learning. At that point, you just enlist the help of experts. You learn, and in this book, in particular, we learned from marketers, strippers, phone sex actresses, self defence coaches, psychologists, a pickup artist was also one of the teachers we had, we had a flirting expert, who was an androgynous - she's non binary and so she really plays with her sensuality, and sometimes with his sensuality, depending on how they feel that day.
Hannah Witton
Yeah.
Shan Boody
And so it was about learning from a gamut of people. And then it's like, okay, let me go out there and practice. And practice is, what feels good for me, and what doesn't? What suits me, and what doesn't suit me?
Hannah Witton
Did you get people practising like, all of the stuff that they learn? Or is it like, pick the things that you're kind of more intrigued by, or feel comfortable with?
Shan Boody
Practice was really about, let's do it all. It's like, let's try and see what works.
Hannah Witton
That's scary.
Shan Boody
And it was scary for a lot of people. Some of the in, for example, we went on group experiments. And I allow the women in the group to say which ones they didn't want to come to. So if they felt that one exercise was not in their -
Hannah Witton
So you could have like a hard no.
Shan Boody
Absolutely, yeah. If you're just like, that doesn't feel like my jam at all. You didn't have to come out and try it. But I think that it was about, it's about playing. At the end of the day to become a good cook, for example, you might have to start with like the principles, the basics to know like, what does and doesn't work, what temperatures. But exceptional cooks, they start freestyling, they get their own groove going.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, right.
Shan Boody
And so yes, in the beginning, you might have to be a bit formulaic, but the better you get, it's like a dancer. And when you watch a dancer, you shouldn't be seeing the counts in their head. Once you see them making the counts, and you lose the art form of it. So I always say when it comes to well executed seduction, effort has to be both your secret and primary ingredient.
Hannah Witton
And have you ever had to use these yourself? Because when you were doing the show, like Shan Boody's Your Perfect Date, you were seeing Jared.
Shan Boody
Yes.
Hannah Witton
So have you ever like purposefully used these yourself?
Shan Boody
All the time? And not just like on dates. In meetings, in my Uber ride, like when, on you.
Hannah Witton
Oh my God, what is happening right now? Maybe this is why I like you so much.
Shan Boody
It's like, you know, this book, to me, is not, um, actually I did an interview with somebody who was like, what's great about this book, and what makes it different from The Game, for example, is that you teach people how to stay in relationships. I was like, no, I don't. This is really just about know who you are, know your strengths, work on yourself, learn from the best, start practising, and then start being that person. After that, it's a whole different set of things to learn, when you want to make a long term relationship.
Hannah Witton
But I think maybe what that person was getting at is like, with The Game, it was, like you said, here are some formulaic things in order to get like anyone in bed. And the thing is, is that - the thing I'm not denying, is that it works. Because we are all like mental human beings, and the same psychological tricks will work on all of us. But what - by performing that kind of like ritualistic stuff does, is it doesn't allow for an actual connection, or to actually understand any kind of compatibility. And I think, like, especially with the first stage of like, know yourself in your thing, which, and I was like reading about it today, like that worksheet that you gave all of your participants, and it is thorough. And about how like, okay, you got to know yourself, and then also like, what kind of partner would you be compatible with? And also like, what kind of partner are you attracted to? And so rather than letting people like, go off and try and seduce anyone and everyone, because it's some kind of like, literal game -
Shan Boody
Yeah
Hannah Witton
It is more about like, you be more selective, and you're better at that, and so maybe by picking better partners, they're more likely to succeed. I hate the word succeed.
Shan Boody
But having meaningful compassion.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, whether that is a long term relationship, or like a great hookup, but I think yeah, it's just always more likely to be better if you have that foundation.
Shan Boody
Absolutely. Like are you the car salesman who's just like trying to get over on someone to make a sale? Or do you know how to read people, assess what they want and sell them a product that you know is going to work for them. And that's what I'm asking these women to do, is know themselves inside and out. But yeah, massive part of that is also partner selection, which they don't get to, I think until like phase three, which is about learning. But a big part of that is like, for example, when we went to school, you spent 18 years trying everything. Math, and science, and gym, and along the way, each step of the way, you start you know narrowing down what your focus is, until you get to college, like I think this is my general field of study. And even then you have to pick quite yet. But when when it comes to relationships, I don't think we do that same process of giving ourselves all of the space that we need in order to test out different things, find what works for us in low risk environments, and then start looking for partners that we truly know we could thrive, based on who they are and what they can provide.
Hannah Witton
I feel like one of the things that a lot of people will be curious about, and obviously I am too, what are, in stage four, some of those tips and tricks. Those things that you learn from those experts. What are your favourite ones?
Shan Boody
I'll give you my favourite ones. My favourite one actually came from the stripper, she gave like how to approach somebody. And so her job is to gauge the interest so, I can't remember the exact tips, but it was like number one, read the person's temperature. So before you go and approach somebody, and she persists, and I persist, that people do the approaching. Get into the driver's seat of your love life. Don't be a passenger waiting for the right person to find you. If you see someone that you want to talk to, go over and start a conversation. There's a big difference between like, I like your shirt, where'd you get it from? And like, hey, yo, ma, can I holla at you.
Hannah Witton
Yeah.
Shan Boody
So when we think of approaching someone, we think of the ladder. Like let me put everything on the line and prepare myself for rejection. But she's like no look at their temperature, are they in a good mood? Are they in a rush? If they're kind of chillin, you know, make eye contact with them three times. If that works, then you do a gesture. And a gesture can be like tongue out, look away, it can look a little wave.
Hannah Witton
Yeah.
Shan Boody
If they return the gesture -
Hannah Witton
I've done winks before.
Shan Boody
Oh really?
Hannah Witton
Which is maybe like a bit too bold but it's worked.
Shan Boody
No, it's perfect. Her's is this, we can't show it, but it's like tongue out and then hides her face.
Hannah Witton
Oh, that's cute.
Shan Boody
Yeah, it's cute. And then if the person returns the gesture, she then walks over, she starts every conversation with consent to make a culture of that. She says, do you mind if I join you? And then as soon as she sits down, she asks a question. If the person returns, and ask a question back, then she stays. If they don't, she gets up and leaves because she's like they're not trying to engage with me.
Hannah Witton
I think that point about consent is so important, because when we think about people approaching you, like strangers in a social setting that you do not want to be approached by, often they start a conversation that doesn't give you an out.
Shan Boody
Yeah
Hannah Witton
And and it's not always on the person who is on the receiving end of that, it's not their responsibility to either give or not give consent, it's often on the person doing the asking to give that person the option. So like, may I join you? is giving that person the option of being like no. Rather than like, oh hey, I'm gonna say a statement at you and come sit down.
Shan Boody
Exactly.
Hannah Witton
And yeah, I feel like in maybe, and not even in situations where it's on the approach, it's someone you know, rather than just saying like, hey, do you want to get a drink tonight? And you could follow up with, no worries if not, or like, don't worry if you can't. Because then that's allowing them, giving them permission to reject you.
Shan Boody
I, for example, if I want someone to do something, I don't give them the out. Like if I really want you to do something. But if I actually don't want to, and I'd rather stay home I'm like, no stress at all. If I don't - you don't want to, I'm not tripping at all. But if I actually want somebody - but then again, it's like that question, there's phases to it. You don't get to that place where I'm asking you to increase the intimacy until we've had a solid banter
Hannah Witton
Yeah. And also, you can always, when you have gotten to the maybe that level of a relationship with someone, explain to them why it is you want them to do that thing. Like really be like, hey, can we do this thing together, because I'm scared of going alone or I think you'd really enjoy it. Like rather than just being like, come with me.
Shan Boody
That's actually one of the things in the book it talks about the five most influential words, that we should use.
Hannah Witton
What is it?
Shan Boody
It's because, you, instantly, knew, and free.
Hannah Witton
Okay I understand you and because. Tell me about this other three.
Shan Boody
Instantly is because it like it just creates an urgency to things, and so like I instantly knew I liked you, or like, it's just that sense of urgency. Mind you, these are also words used in sales. So like, this is going to instantly work for you. You're instantly love this car. Free, just because it's like a very it's a wonderful word.
Hannah Witton
Free as in doesn't cost anything, or free as in freedom?
Shan Boody
That's your connotation, right. Because I think in either case, you can't dislike that word. And so if you're giving something away for free or you're giving someone freedom, the word free is just like it's a naturally relaxing words. And new, just because like novelty, excitement, dopamine.
Hannah Witton
I like that. What has been one of the things that you learnt from the process of writing this book?
Shan Boody
Oh my gosh, so much, I have learned so much about myself, things I have to work on for me. I've learned, what is the biggest thing that I've probably learned? Is that like, oh, change doesn't happen overnight, which I knew that, it's a stupid sentence to say out loud. But when I first started this book, I was like, this is a five week process to becoming an ultimate seducer. Like this basic used car salesman pitch.
Hannah Witton
You're gonna instantly be more confident.
Shan Boody
You'll be instantly free and new, because you are awesome! That is what my pitch was. And I started to really work with these women and I'm like, oh, we have so much work to do. Even just around uncovering, I'd call it with the debris, because I think everybody has a natural light, natural gifts. But a lot of debris gets placed on top of that, and that hardens over time to become your persona. And so you start to identify yourself as like, I'm just protected. I'm just closed. I'm just cutthroat. I'm just nervous. I'm just awkward. Like, these aren't things that we should be like claiming as archetypes, because they're not serving you, especially if you've come to this group, you're admitting the fact that like you're not having success in this area. And so you can't be holding on to these traits. But to get people to let go of them, oh, my gosh, it was like months. So what I ended up being a five week quick fix thing, ended up being a six month experience with these women.
Hannah Witton
Wow.
Shan Boody
And I was actually with them last night, too. So it's an ongoing relationship.
Hannah Witton
Yeah. So tell me a bit more about that process of like, finding those women. And actually, because the book isn't just like a, these are the five steps, it's a, this is my experience, going through these five steps with a group of very different people.
Shan Boody
Yes, that's so important, because I learned that through Your Perfect Date, is that everybody is like, you're already attractive, or you're already confident. And I also took for granted to how much work I had done before that. And so even then, a lot of the tips work for me, because I've spent 10 years doing sex and intimacy education. So my base is there. And so me just telling you these things, and again, I literally would not have known how much work it was, unless I worked with people. So it was a blessing for me to do it that way because I think, also as a reader, you're going to connect with someone and say, oh, I'm the Stephanie type, one of the women in the book. I am this type. Because not everyone's the Emma Watson type, Hannah. We did a personality test on this channel, and we found out that she's like a perfect human. And you're also like a perfect visual specimen. Yeah.
Hannah Witton
I'm just perfectly balanced. I've got nothing to work on. Not even my modesty.
Shan Boody
No, definitely not your modesty. It's perfect.
Hannah Witton
But did you find that, because from reading, like the first bit of the book, I'm like, whoa, whoa, is Shannon gonna, like, have to be their therapist? Because I feel like, in some instances, when it comes to really unravelling a lot of that stuff, and I don't think there's anything wrong in needing to, like, seek professional help.
Shan Boody
Yeah.
Hannah Witton
When it comes to like, pursuing your dating life, because often that stuff is so personal. And it can, like you said, there's layers, and layers, and layers there of, and the women coming to you are very much, they're self selecting of like, I need help.
Shan Boody
Yes, exactly.
Hannah Witton
And so maybe there's a reason maybe there's certain patterns that they've gotten into. Did you feel like, like maybe an extra level of responsibility of like, oh shit, am I their therapist now?
Shan Boody
I did not select anybody who I felt needed therapy. Because that's a different - I'm not a therapist, and that's not a service I can provide or offer. And so I really did choose people who I felt their primary issue was their lack of ability to solidify connections with others. And the women in the group, like their archetypes are like closed, very nervous, very blunt. One was like very, like her family's opinion of her relationships, and her opinion were so drastically different. So she felt that she was doing this weird balancing act. And one was a mother. And so it wasn't people whom like had gone through severe trauma, and were trying to recover from it, or massive trust issues. And I don't think, not that this book isn't for that person, but going back to The Game, like we all have different starting lines. And your starting line might be with therapy, it might be with getting professional help in that regard. And once you find your centre that way, then maybe come to this book. And I think after you read this book, The Game might be a good option for you because you're like, I want more tips. So it's just assessing that, but also acknowledging what I can provide. So there are definitely times - but I think that this book is a repeatable format. I don't think you need to have me there. You could, because even in the book, the women were able to self identify. Sorry, excuse me, the women were able to identify the other people's shortcomings, consistently.
Hannah Witton
Ah, so once you learn and once you kind of become aware, you can start being like, oh my god, you're such a, X Y Z.
Shan Boody
Yes, exactly. So we had like this like section the book. It's like 13 reasons why you're getting ghosted, and they're anti seducers. And all of the women had to pick who in the group had different anti seducers, and consistently everyone shows the same one for certain people. So strangers, who hardly knew each other, were able to point it out for someone else.
Hannah Witton
What do you mean anti seducers?
Shan Boody
So like some of the anti seducers are like the clinger, would be like the doormat, the Peter Pan, the person doesn't want to grow up.
Hannah Witton
And they could point out from like, a certain example, like what it was about that person that was turning people off.
Shan Boody
Yeah, but at that point, we'd probably been together for three months. And so they started to see patterns of that person in the group dynamic. And also the group dynamic was incredible, because of the fact that like, you have these women who have nothing in common, who are coming together on a goal that not a lot of people feel comfortable saying out loud. So that was an extra special part of the book to me -
Hannah Witton
Did you think that there is any difference, because were most of the women seeking to date men, or was it a bit of a mix?
Shan Boody
There was two, there's one pansexual there, and there's one lesbian who we also worked with.
Hannah Witton
Okay, what did you, was there any different depending on what gender you were trying to seduce? Or was it just like blanket rule, humans are all the same.
Shan Boody
Yeah, it really was. I mean, and again, this is not, there's no sex tips in this book, even like. There's mind fucking, which is different than actual fucking, and so you weren't interacting with people's genitals, you're just interacting with people. And so there didn't need to be nuances. But I mean, representation matters, and so when I say that this is a book that's LGBT+, like, accessible, yes, in some ways, but also maybe for you, there's too much heterosexual commentary, or language being used, that might not feel as home to you. It depends. I read The Game, and I didn't - it didn't need to be about my sex for me to learn from it. But for some people, that is massively important, and I wouldn't make that promise that that this book, is that.
Hannah Witton
Okay, yeah, no, fair enough. And I but I do, like I remember you saying in the introduction, when you were selecting the women you did want -
Shan Boody
Diversity
Hannah Witton
And I guess, I guess it's also it's nice, and affirming, to me at least, as someone who, like, you know, ideally, I like to think that we're not in a place where we're like, this is how men and women are, like, naturally different. Like, I find those conversations really, like, icky, and I'm like, ugh, we still there, really. So I'm glad to hear that, like, this is something that just works on people. It's like about a human to human connection.
Shan Boody
Yes, I can't see even like the - like, we had the male dating coach. And at first, he's like, I never teach women, I'm like, it doesn't matter. In actuality, he was an Asian male dating coach. And so his whole thing was teaching minority men. And I'm like, everyone in this group is a minority, either a visible minority, or a sexual minority. And so it's the same principles, because it's a difference between going out there and dating as a heterosexual, cisgender, white male, and doing it as a Black woman, or as a queer woman.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, that's so true.
Shan Boody
And so he was aware of those nuances. And so a lot of his tips and teachings really just worked so seamlessly.
Hannah Witton
Because is it about the fact that you're like, you're not starting from a position of power?
Shan Boody
Yes, absolutely. Yeah.
Hannah Witton
How did that like come into all of the teachings, like about that relationship between dating and power?
Shan Boody
I mean, it's important to acknowledge. I mean, I'm called to acknowledge my privilege, you were called to acknowledge your privilege. And it works both ways, where you're not privileged also you have to be aware of to be able to make up for it. And so it's, that's a part of the know phase, when you know, my favourite quote of all time is, the key to happiness is managing expectations. And you can't do that if you're not aware of the pieces, the moving parts.
Hannah Witton
Yeah.
Shan Boody
And the likelihood of how people are going to treat you based on how they perceive you. And so managing expectations and allowing that to inform how you approach situations, I think, is a really, really big win for people.
Hannah Witton
I totally agree with the managing expectations thing, but I feel like, I feel like a lot of people will have really high expectations for like, a date, or for whatever comes after. And then a lot of people balance that by then going like, fully the other way, and being like I'm just gonna have no expectations. Like -
Shan Boody
That's not good.
Hannah Witton
Yeah. What - how do you try and have that happy medium?
Shan Boody
I think you vet, right. You don't just go out on a date. We live in the culture that you could go on a date. Like you were going to go on the 25 dates before you met your partner. Did you have any vetting, or were you like any 25 people?
Hannah Witton
I yeah - cuz I gave myself like two months to do it, which isn't a lot of time. I was going to be basically going on a date every other day. And so I was just like, literally anyone and everyone, who I can get my hands on.
Shan Boody
Don't do that.
Hannah Witton
Well, it was gonna be for a book and a social dating experiment. But then I met my partner and it never happened.
Shan Boody
So the experiment worked, guys. So there's no, that's also a big part of it too, there's no wrong way to skin a cat. I'm not saying, and that's one of the people in the book ends up dropping out. And in the end, her thing was like I don't believe in this programme. And that is fair, right. Like her ideology was that no one should have to change, and the right person will love you for who you are. And we're not supposed to be heady about these things. We're supposed to just be serendipitous. And I'm like, power to you, cause that can work.
Hannah Witton
And that's also not the Shan Boody approach.
Shan Boody
It's not my approach. But it doesn't, it doesn't work in any other area of life, right. I can't just like think good thoughts and have a great career. I can't just -
Hannah Witton
Some people do believe that.
Shan Boody
Some people do, and some people would remind you, work at Starbucks, and Steven Spielberg walks in and says take off that apron and walk on my set, you are the next x movie star. That does happen for people, and is that most people story? No. Most people had to move to LA, live in a bedroom with five other grown ass adults, go on 17 different auditions a day, go to acting classes for 10 years before they got a two part role, etc, etc.
Hannah Witton
Yeah.
Shan Boody
So that process to have a likely result of success in something is not just, I walked outside and I just knew. Some people it is though so, and I wouldn't even argue for you that was the case, because you have done so much self work. You are an educator, you listen to people, you surround yourself with these stories, you have parents who gave you an incredible example.
Hannah Witton
You're just saying this because I told you my love language is words of affirmation.
Shan Boody
You said it was physical touch.
Hannah Witton
I said it was both of them, and you clearly weren't listening.
Shan Boody
Oh, something to work on!
Hannah Witton
No, but I think all of that is so true. Because one of the things that occurred to me recently was how we get taught, like, how to do. Like how to get career, how to like pass exams in school, like how to drive. And when it comes to relationships -
Shan Boody
Or sex.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, we're literally just going, off you go. Good luck. All right, off you go then.
Shan Boody
And statistically, that hasn't worked out for most people.
Hannah Witton
No.
Shan Boody
And there's a stat that says 70% of people identify as lonely in present day.
Hannah Witton
I know, the loneliness epidemic.
Shan Boody
Mm hmm. And so I would say that it's if there ever was a time to be like, why don't we try something? Now would be that time, and especially because we're so aware. Maybe before we didn't have the comparison that we did now, of like, wow, other people have so many friends, other people are so loved. This person is going on 25 dates in two months. And like me, I can't even get one person to accept me on on Tinder. So the comparison I think, has really escalated people's feelings of isolation and inadequacy.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, and especially like with social media as well. And seeing hashtag squad goals -
Shan Boody
Right, yes.
Hannah Witton
There's a lot of that. I was going to ask, how did you come up with this programme? Because this is Shan Boody's, five week, six months -
Shan Boody
Five weeks, six months, ongoing, never ending programme.
Hannah Witton
For life. Like, how did you come up with it? Like, what was your process of the research that you did? Because I saw on Twitter or Instagram you like posted that picture of all of the books that you read -
Shan Boody
Yes.
Hannah Witton
For research, and I loved that. Yeah, tell us a bit about that process.
Shan Boody
I mean, it's been 10 years of my life, right. And I'm somebody who started in this field for selfish reasons. I didn't start because I'm like, I can be the change. I started because I'm like, I need to change. Like, this is shit, I have so, I had so much expectation and hope for my love life and sex life. And it just fell flat. And I'm like, let's start from the beginning and start learning. And that process of educating myself, and immersing myself around great people, and becoming an even better listener, has transformed my love life. And so it was like if it can work for me. But no, it is a - and I'm still learning to this day. So I actually want to transform my platform from being like I am the sex expert to, I want everyone to be a sex expert. I want everyone to be an intimacy expert.
Hannah Witton
Like, about themselves and their partners.
Shan Boody
Just in general. The average, like more than half the population considers themselves to be a cook. Right? They're like, because you need to you, you need to cook.
Hannah Witton
That is so true, because I don't, but my partner is.
Shan Boody
Yes.
Hannah Witton
So I'm still in the like, not quite there yet.
Shan Boody
Well, mind you, we're in the like, Uber Eats phase where like cooking is like less necessary now than ever before. But nonetheless, like, we don't look at cooking as like there's only set people who can do this. It should be something that everyone's pretty well versed on, and I want for this space to start becoming that for the population as well.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, no, I love that, like idea of an approach to it. of it should be accessible for everyone. There isn't like this elite of people who have all of the knowledge -
Shan Boody
Yes, and disseminate it bit by bit.
Hannah Witton
Yeah.
Shan Boody
Just ask me a question, I'll give you that information. Versus like, do this quiz, like doing a quiz is so much more powerful than being told something or spoken at. Like do the steps, practice that for yourself, and cross out what you don't like.
Hannah Witton
Yeah. And then share it amongst your friends. Tell all of your friends how they can be intimacy and sex experts.
Shan Boody
And put us out of a job.
Hannah Witton
Yeah, that's true, whoops.
Shan Boody
But they will be you know, there's there's still a place. I think the same thing happened with photography, right. Like, there was the iPhone boom, and now everyone had a camera, now everyone's taking great photos, and the photographer's were like, well, what about us? Like there's still a place for you. But photography is about the ability to capture a beautiful moment. Everyone should have that power.
Hannah Witton
Yeah. And everyone should have the power to be able to have fulfilling relationships like whatever.
Shan Boody
Can I drop the mic right now Hannah, cuz -
Hannah Witton
Drop the book.
Shan Boody
Drop the book.
Hannah Witton
Um, what, what do you think, like the participants got out of it?
Shan Boody
I would hope that they got out of it, number one, incredible relationships with each other. We really did form like a sisterhood, like a bond that I don't even think I'll fully appreciate till I'm all grey. But I think that there changed people. One of the girls yesterday, for example, in the book she identified as anxious, like extremely anxious. She went to therapy, so that was one question I had to ask before, because I'm not equipped to deal with somebody who has chronic anxiety.
Hannah Witton
Yeah.
Shan Boody
But she had already gone to a therapist at this point. She was like, I'm just tired of my anxiety being the centre point of my life. She'd never been in a relationship before, she had never dated. She identified as pansexual, yet had never had any same sex interactions. And so for her, it was just like, I haven't, I've been too afraid. And I went to her birthday party last night, and she was dressed in like this Charlie's Angels outfit, had all her friends around her, just the centre of attention, so comfortable in her sexuality. So comfortable talking to people. When she first came in the group she barely spoke at all. And she started every time that she did speak with, I'm extremely nervous right now. And I just see this whole other person now. I don't take full credit for that. I think it's the group and the think tank of like, love and support.
Hannah Witton
Yeah. And also she would have had to put in the work for that as well.
Shan Boody
Exactly. So like, that's one person that I think I'm extremely proud of. But one of the other girls started her own relationship like meme page.
Hannah Witton
Oh my goodness.
Shan Boody
Everything on there, I could repost. Like she gives me knowledge now, like she's spitting game on me.
Hannah Witton
I need this. You'll have to send it to me.
Shan Boody
It's 2am Priscilla. Yeah, it's really really good.
Hannah Witton
2am Priscilla. Okay, well, thank you so much Shan for coming on my podcast.
Shan Boody
Thank you.
Hannah Witton
And just for sharing your wisdom and letting us all be intimacy experts.
Shan Boody
I can't believe that we are book buddies.
Hannah Witton
Yes!
Shan Boody
Both summer 2019.
Hannah Witton
Summer 2019
Shan Boody
Summer 2019, baby
Hannah Witton
It's the time for buying all of your books about intimacy, and your body, periods, and all of that good stuff. What is your book called?
Shan Boody
The book is called The Game of Desire, it is available July 23rd, everywhere that books are sold. And I promise you guys will get something out of it. It's really fun book.
Hannah Witton
Yeah. And for me, like I'm in a relationship, and already, I'm like, this is incredible. And I love like, nerding out about these kinds of things. And I know, that's like, what your passion is, as well. You're like, let me get into the details. So I love that. Thank you so much.
Shan Boody
Thank you, Hannah
Hannah Witton
Thanks for listening. Bye. Thank you so much for listening to Doing It. If you enjoyed it, I would really appreciate it if you left a rating and a review. You can find show notes at DoingItPodcast.co.uk, and do go follow us on social media and I'll catch you in the next episode. Bye.
Hannah Witton
This was a Global original podcast